KGB said: 95% of the 4* tier can't either. I absolutely need Bishop (or WorthyCap) to have a reliable way to beat Kitty/Rocket in 4* land. Most of the counter teams in Shield Sim end up as Bishop/Peggy/XPool or Carol/WorthyCap/Rocket since you run into the wall of Gritty around 1700ish.@Daredevil217 Not sure why you are against more counters when the 4* tier has more and more counters and is better for it. A 2nd 5* who is immune to Stun, especially one with opposite colors of Surfer would be a great addition allowing you to team them together for an anti-stun team.Another potential power that I suggested for a 5* would be passive AP reduction (1 per cover). So with 3 cover it would be 3 less passive AP per match for Bishop and 5*Hawkeye (plus a host of other characters like Carol etc) meaning he would take that much longer to be able to use his stun.Or another interesting power would be a passive that unstuns any stunned teammate at the start of the turn. So that character themselves could be stunned, but if any of their teammates were stunned at the start of the turn they would automatically unstun them (if ProfX didn't exist it would make an ideal power for someone like Xavier to have). Then as long as this character didn't end up in front you'd undo any stuns from Bishop/WorthyCap.There are lots of possibilities that don't involve nerfing Bishop/WorthyCap.KGB
Daredevil217 said: Spudgutter said: The rockett said: I shared a SS on discord of a SIM match against HE/Hammer Cap with my A team of 516 OK, 505 Thor and 490 JJ. 1st move:Me: match 3 that hit a cascade which I ended with 9 AP. AI: PRE 1st move after all the Hammer Cap tiles do their countdown thing. blue AP:30Red AP:26 Yes that was before AI made 1 move they had over 30 blue and 26 red AP. You cannot make a match against Hammer or Bishop without their passive going off. If that is not broken, then I have no idea what is. C'mon, i don't remember what logical fallacy this falls under, but it is pretty blatant. You think you represent anything resembling the average player? I'm top 50 cl9 pve with 900/1200 pvp. Day 2221 with 10 million Iso sitting in the bank and 400+ pulls waiting on the next 5* so i can champ whomever it is with carbage and brb and add them to my 27 other 5* champs. And even with all that, my best 5* are between 460 and 463, and i only just recently maxed out my second 4* champ literally yesterday. Of course the AI is going to have maximum ap in that scenario. No one is surprised by this. Show me when you do that with 4*, and I'll listen. But just as an example, my 366 Coulson, boosted in pvp right now, does 1137 in his strongest color, just barely enough to trigger the 1059 requirement of my level 297 bishop. But again, the number of people with almost maxed coulsons cannot come close to those that don't. I think the logical fallacy is "anecdotal evidence", where you take one personal example and generalize it and assume it's the norm. The thing is, for 5* players, it is a pretty common occurrence.As for the rest, I think it is a pretty reductionist view of the whole Bishop problem. I could just as easily call players saying "don't nerf!" selfish because they are only thinking about how Bishop allows them to punch up (4* players) or how he gives them a "free shield" (5* players). With no regard for the fact that I can't make a match-3 in a match 3 game without the enemy getting 30 AP and stun-locking my team. We could toss that word around both ways.
Spudgutter said: The rockett said: I shared a SS on discord of a SIM match against HE/Hammer Cap with my A team of 516 OK, 505 Thor and 490 JJ. 1st move:Me: match 3 that hit a cascade which I ended with 9 AP. AI: PRE 1st move after all the Hammer Cap tiles do their countdown thing. blue AP:30Red AP:26 Yes that was before AI made 1 move they had over 30 blue and 26 red AP. You cannot make a match against Hammer or Bishop without their passive going off. If that is not broken, then I have no idea what is. C'mon, i don't remember what logical fallacy this falls under, but it is pretty blatant. You think you represent anything resembling the average player? I'm top 50 cl9 pve with 900/1200 pvp. Day 2221 with 10 million Iso sitting in the bank and 400+ pulls waiting on the next 5* so i can champ whomever it is with carbage and brb and add them to my 27 other 5* champs. And even with all that, my best 5* are between 460 and 463, and i only just recently maxed out my second 4* champ literally yesterday. Of course the AI is going to have maximum ap in that scenario. No one is surprised by this. Show me when you do that with 4*, and I'll listen. But just as an example, my 366 Coulson, boosted in pvp right now, does 1137 in his strongest color, just barely enough to trigger the 1059 requirement of my level 297 bishop. But again, the number of people with almost maxed coulsons cannot come close to those that don't.
The rockett said: I shared a SS on discord of a SIM match against HE/Hammer Cap with my A team of 516 OK, 505 Thor and 490 JJ. 1st move:Me: match 3 that hit a cascade which I ended with 9 AP. AI: PRE 1st move after all the Hammer Cap tiles do their countdown thing. blue AP:30Red AP:26 Yes that was before AI made 1 move they had over 30 blue and 26 red AP. You cannot make a match against Hammer or Bishop without their passive going off. If that is not broken, then I have no idea what is.
Daredevil217 said: KGB said: A_Wise_Man said: Daredevil217 said: And buffing Wasp so she counters Bishop is not the answer (this one isn't a reply to you Spud- I've just seen a few mention it). We already have that in Surfer. Having 1-2 characters that sidestep or punish Bishop's mechanics is great for those lucky enough to have those 1-2 characters. He will still obliterate the other 95% of the tier above him. He needs to be adjusted. You could argue the same thing for kitty and rocket. 95% of the 5 star tier cant deal with them either. 95% of the 4* tier can't either. I absolutely need Bishop (or WorthyCap) to have a reliable way to beat Kitty/Rocket in 4* land. Most of the counter teams in Shield Sim end up as Bishop/Peggy/XPool or Carol/WorthyCap/Rocket since you run into the wall of Gritty around 1700ish.@Daredevil217 Not sure why you are against more counters when the 4* tier has more and more counters and is better for it. A 2nd 5* who is immune to Stun, especially one with opposite colors of Surfer would be a great addition allowing you to team them together for an anti-stun team.Another potential power that I suggested for a 5* would be passive AP reduction (1 per cover). So with 3 cover it would be 3 less passive AP per match for Bishop and 5*Hawkeye (plus a host of other characters like Carol etc) meaning he would take that much longer to be able to use his stun.Or another interesting power would be a passive that unstuns any stunned teammate at the start of the turn. So that character themselves could be stunned, but if any of their teammates were stunned at the start of the turn they would automatically unstun them (if ProfX didn't exist it would make an ideal power for someone like Xavier to have). Then as long as this character didn't end up in front you'd undo any stuns from Bishop/WorthyCap.There are lots of possibilities that don't involve nerfing Bishop/WorthyCap.KGB I’m not against making Wasp the second unstunable character or a buff to weaker characters in general. I’m against that specific character and Surfer being the only counter to a character a tier below them. A top tier 5* obliterating 95% of the tier below them makes sense. A 4* obliterating 95% of the tier above... not so much.
KGB said: A_Wise_Man said: Daredevil217 said: And buffing Wasp so she counters Bishop is not the answer (this one isn't a reply to you Spud- I've just seen a few mention it). We already have that in Surfer. Having 1-2 characters that sidestep or punish Bishop's mechanics is great for those lucky enough to have those 1-2 characters. He will still obliterate the other 95% of the tier above him. He needs to be adjusted. You could argue the same thing for kitty and rocket. 95% of the 5 star tier cant deal with them either. 95% of the 4* tier can't either. I absolutely need Bishop (or WorthyCap) to have a reliable way to beat Kitty/Rocket in 4* land. Most of the counter teams in Shield Sim end up as Bishop/Peggy/XPool or Carol/WorthyCap/Rocket since you run into the wall of Gritty around 1700ish.@Daredevil217 Not sure why you are against more counters when the 4* tier has more and more counters and is better for it. A 2nd 5* who is immune to Stun, especially one with opposite colors of Surfer would be a great addition allowing you to team them together for an anti-stun team.Another potential power that I suggested for a 5* would be passive AP reduction (1 per cover). So with 3 cover it would be 3 less passive AP per match for Bishop and 5*Hawkeye (plus a host of other characters like Carol etc) meaning he would take that much longer to be able to use his stun.Or another interesting power would be a passive that unstuns any stunned teammate at the start of the turn. So that character themselves could be stunned, but if any of their teammates were stunned at the start of the turn they would automatically unstun them (if ProfX didn't exist it would make an ideal power for someone like Xavier to have). Then as long as this character didn't end up in front you'd undo any stuns from Bishop/WorthyCap.There are lots of possibilities that don't involve nerfing Bishop/WorthyCap.KGB
A_Wise_Man said: Daredevil217 said: And buffing Wasp so she counters Bishop is not the answer (this one isn't a reply to you Spud- I've just seen a few mention it). We already have that in Surfer. Having 1-2 characters that sidestep or punish Bishop's mechanics is great for those lucky enough to have those 1-2 characters. He will still obliterate the other 95% of the tier above him. He needs to be adjusted. You could argue the same thing for kitty and rocket. 95% of the 5 star tier cant deal with them either.
Daredevil217 said: And buffing Wasp so she counters Bishop is not the answer (this one isn't a reply to you Spud- I've just seen a few mention it). We already have that in Surfer. Having 1-2 characters that sidestep or punish Bishop's mechanics is great for those lucky enough to have those 1-2 characters. He will still obliterate the other 95% of the tier above him. He needs to be adjusted.
A_Wise_Man said: Daredevil217 said: KGB said: A_Wise_Man said: Daredevil217 said: And buffing Wasp so she counters Bishop is not the answer (this one isn't a reply to you Spud- I've just seen a few mention it). We already have that in Surfer. Having 1-2 characters that sidestep or punish Bishop's mechanics is great for those lucky enough to have those 1-2 characters. He will still obliterate the other 95% of the tier above him. He needs to be adjusted. You could argue the same thing for kitty and rocket. 95% of the 5 star tier cant deal with them either. 95% of the 4* tier can't either. I absolutely need Bishop (or WorthyCap) to have a reliable way to beat Kitty/Rocket in 4* land. Most of the counter teams in Shield Sim end up as Bishop/Peggy/XPool or Carol/WorthyCap/Rocket since you run into the wall of Gritty around 1700ish.@Daredevil217 Not sure why you are against more counters when the 4* tier has more and more counters and is better for it. A 2nd 5* who is immune to Stun, especially one with opposite colors of Surfer would be a great addition allowing you to team them together for an anti-stun team.Another potential power that I suggested for a 5* would be passive AP reduction (1 per cover). So with 3 cover it would be 3 less passive AP per match for Bishop and 5*Hawkeye (plus a host of other characters like Carol etc) meaning he would take that much longer to be able to use his stun.Or another interesting power would be a passive that unstuns any stunned teammate at the start of the turn. So that character themselves could be stunned, but if any of their teammates were stunned at the start of the turn they would automatically unstun them (if ProfX didn't exist it would make an ideal power for someone like Xavier to have). Then as long as this character didn't end up in front you'd undo any stuns from Bishop/WorthyCap.There are lots of possibilities that don't involve nerfing Bishop/WorthyCap.KGB I’m not against making Wasp the second unstunable character or a buff to weaker characters in general. I’m against that specific character and Surfer being the only counter to a character a tier below them. A top tier 5* obliterating 95% of the tier below them makes sense. A 4* obliterating 95% of the tier above... not so much. You're in luck! Surfer is not the only Bishop counter! Doc Ock is immune to stun as well. Black widow stuns someone randomly if someone is stunned as well. So just run teams that include the stun proof guys and you'll be all set. Next pvp try out ock and surfer, see how well you do
dingo said: 231 votes that represent this forum (as of now) seems like a tiny fraction of the playerbase. Maybe that's what they're trying to tell us.... just sayin'
leoperez90 said: This is getting old. All I'm reading is about bishop and cap(good points and ideas are being thrown out there) Can we get an answer already tho? This is getting quite long
Spudgutter said: tiomono said: Spudgutter said: The rockett said: I shared a SS on discord of a SIM match against HE/Hammer Cap with my A team of 516 OK, 505 Thor and 490 JJ. 1st move:Me: match 3 that hit a cascade which I ended with 9 AP. AI: PRE 1st move after all the Hammer Cap tiles do their countdown thing. blue AP:30Red AP:26 Yes that was before AI made 1 move they had over 30 blue and 26 red AP. You cannot make a match against Hammer or Bishop without their passive going off. If that is not broken, then I have no idea what is. C'mon, i don't remember what logical fallacy this falls under, but it is pretty blatant. You think you represent anything resembling the average player? I'm top 50 cl9 pve with 900/1200 pvp. Day 2221 with 10 million Iso sitting in the bank and 400+ pulls waiting on the next 5* so i can champ whomever it is with carbage and brb and add them to my 27 other 5* champs. And even with all that, my best 5* are between 460 and 463, and i only just recently maxed out my second 4* champ literally yesterday. Of course the AI is going to have maximum ap in that scenario. No one is surprised by this. Show me when you do that with 4*, and I'll listen. But just as an example, my 366 Coulson, boosted in pvp right now, does 1137 in his strongest color, just barely enough to trigger the 1059 requirement of my level 297 bishop. But again, the number of people with almost maxed coulsons cannot come close to those that don't. jp1 said:If they do nerf Bishop my life is likely to become less complicated when it comes to PVP, so I stand to gain nothing from coming to his defense. Other people, those in transition with maybe 1 or 2 five star champs or those deeply rooted in 4 star land having to deal with under leveled fives who are still dominating their play experience might need those tools. This right here is what it comes down to, those that are annoyed are only thinking of themselves and not others. Nerfing bishop or hammer does absolutely nothing to me or my game, but I takes away options from others. No offense to those asking for nerfs, but it comes off as kind of selfish, imo. DAZ0273 said: Despite all this talk about nerfs though I don't see any changes in leaderboards. I don't see 5* players not hitting 2000 in Sim. There is still collusion in PvP which makes Bishop etc irrelevant. Bishop isn't even an issue in pick 2 Pvp. I see 5* players who want 4* characters nerfed without their 5* characters touched or treated in equal fashion. I wonder at players talking about healthpacks when they have hundreds stockpiled. This whole thread/poll is a strange exercise which none of us will win I fear, especially when players continue to vote one way but their comments suggest they want to play both ends against the middle. Fun I guess? This right here. Top winners rarely change, even as the meta changes. Taking away tools because it inconveniences you, with no regard to how it impacts those who are trying to come up, is the wrong way to come about. Was the 5* or 3* gambit nerf just taking away players options? Maybe, sure. Bad character design and fixing them is a different conversation altogether. I, and i think i am not alone in this opinion, do not trust the people responsible for this game to properly nerf a character. History with gambit alone proves this.But you still don't address the core of the issue: are these characters preventing you from getting rewards you think you would get if they were otherwise changed. If so, please elaborate. I have already said that i do just fine. I get to 900 really easy, both in slice 1 and 5, and get to 1200 in slice 1 when i remember to join early enough or care enough to do it. The number of bishop or hammer teams vary from at least 3, to maybe 10, that I skip around in my 18-25 matches. And the only reason i skip around hammer is because it is so boring. I went out of my way to champ 5hawkeye recently, even buying his last cover when he was essential, just to see what all the fuss was about. What a snoozefest.
tiomono said: Spudgutter said: The rockett said: I shared a SS on discord of a SIM match against HE/Hammer Cap with my A team of 516 OK, 505 Thor and 490 JJ. 1st move:Me: match 3 that hit a cascade which I ended with 9 AP. AI: PRE 1st move after all the Hammer Cap tiles do their countdown thing. blue AP:30Red AP:26 Yes that was before AI made 1 move they had over 30 blue and 26 red AP. You cannot make a match against Hammer or Bishop without their passive going off. If that is not broken, then I have no idea what is. C'mon, i don't remember what logical fallacy this falls under, but it is pretty blatant. You think you represent anything resembling the average player? I'm top 50 cl9 pve with 900/1200 pvp. Day 2221 with 10 million Iso sitting in the bank and 400+ pulls waiting on the next 5* so i can champ whomever it is with carbage and brb and add them to my 27 other 5* champs. And even with all that, my best 5* are between 460 and 463, and i only just recently maxed out my second 4* champ literally yesterday. Of course the AI is going to have maximum ap in that scenario. No one is surprised by this. Show me when you do that with 4*, and I'll listen. But just as an example, my 366 Coulson, boosted in pvp right now, does 1137 in his strongest color, just barely enough to trigger the 1059 requirement of my level 297 bishop. But again, the number of people with almost maxed coulsons cannot come close to those that don't. jp1 said:If they do nerf Bishop my life is likely to become less complicated when it comes to PVP, so I stand to gain nothing from coming to his defense. Other people, those in transition with maybe 1 or 2 five star champs or those deeply rooted in 4 star land having to deal with under leveled fives who are still dominating their play experience might need those tools. This right here is what it comes down to, those that are annoyed are only thinking of themselves and not others. Nerfing bishop or hammer does absolutely nothing to me or my game, but I takes away options from others. No offense to those asking for nerfs, but it comes off as kind of selfish, imo. DAZ0273 said: Despite all this talk about nerfs though I don't see any changes in leaderboards. I don't see 5* players not hitting 2000 in Sim. There is still collusion in PvP which makes Bishop etc irrelevant. Bishop isn't even an issue in pick 2 Pvp. I see 5* players who want 4* characters nerfed without their 5* characters touched or treated in equal fashion. I wonder at players talking about healthpacks when they have hundreds stockpiled. This whole thread/poll is a strange exercise which none of us will win I fear, especially when players continue to vote one way but their comments suggest they want to play both ends against the middle. Fun I guess? This right here. Top winners rarely change, even as the meta changes. Taking away tools because it inconveniences you, with no regard to how it impacts those who are trying to come up, is the wrong way to come about. Was the 5* or 3* gambit nerf just taking away players options?
Spudgutter said: The rockett said: I shared a SS on discord of a SIM match against HE/Hammer Cap with my A team of 516 OK, 505 Thor and 490 JJ. 1st move:Me: match 3 that hit a cascade which I ended with 9 AP. AI: PRE 1st move after all the Hammer Cap tiles do their countdown thing. blue AP:30Red AP:26 Yes that was before AI made 1 move they had over 30 blue and 26 red AP. You cannot make a match against Hammer or Bishop without their passive going off. If that is not broken, then I have no idea what is. C'mon, i don't remember what logical fallacy this falls under, but it is pretty blatant. You think you represent anything resembling the average player? I'm top 50 cl9 pve with 900/1200 pvp. Day 2221 with 10 million Iso sitting in the bank and 400+ pulls waiting on the next 5* so i can champ whomever it is with carbage and brb and add them to my 27 other 5* champs. And even with all that, my best 5* are between 460 and 463, and i only just recently maxed out my second 4* champ literally yesterday. Of course the AI is going to have maximum ap in that scenario. No one is surprised by this. Show me when you do that with 4*, and I'll listen. But just as an example, my 366 Coulson, boosted in pvp right now, does 1137 in his strongest color, just barely enough to trigger the 1059 requirement of my level 297 bishop. But again, the number of people with almost maxed coulsons cannot come close to those that don't. jp1 said:If they do nerf Bishop my life is likely to become less complicated when it comes to PVP, so I stand to gain nothing from coming to his defense. Other people, those in transition with maybe 1 or 2 five star champs or those deeply rooted in 4 star land having to deal with under leveled fives who are still dominating their play experience might need those tools. This right here is what it comes down to, those that are annoyed are only thinking of themselves and not others. Nerfing bishop or hammer does absolutely nothing to me or my game, but I takes away options from others. No offense to those asking for nerfs, but it comes off as kind of selfish, imo. DAZ0273 said: Despite all this talk about nerfs though I don't see any changes in leaderboards. I don't see 5* players not hitting 2000 in Sim. There is still collusion in PvP which makes Bishop etc irrelevant. Bishop isn't even an issue in pick 2 Pvp. I see 5* players who want 4* characters nerfed without their 5* characters touched or treated in equal fashion. I wonder at players talking about healthpacks when they have hundreds stockpiled. This whole thread/poll is a strange exercise which none of us will win I fear, especially when players continue to vote one way but their comments suggest they want to play both ends against the middle. Fun I guess? This right here. Top winners rarely change, even as the meta changes. Taking away tools because it inconveniences you, with no regard to how it impacts those who are trying to come up, is the wrong way to come about.
jp1 said:If they do nerf Bishop my life is likely to become less complicated when it comes to PVP, so I stand to gain nothing from coming to his defense. Other people, those in transition with maybe 1 or 2 five star champs or those deeply rooted in 4 star land having to deal with under leveled fives who are still dominating their play experience might need those tools.
DAZ0273 said: Despite all this talk about nerfs though I don't see any changes in leaderboards. I don't see 5* players not hitting 2000 in Sim. There is still collusion in PvP which makes Bishop etc irrelevant. Bishop isn't even an issue in pick 2 Pvp. I see 5* players who want 4* characters nerfed without their 5* characters touched or treated in equal fashion. I wonder at players talking about healthpacks when they have hundreds stockpiled. This whole thread/poll is a strange exercise which none of us will win I fear, especially when players continue to vote one way but their comments suggest they want to play both ends against the middle. Fun I guess?
Daredevil217 said: A_Wise_Man said: Daredevil217 said: KGB said: A_Wise_Man said: Daredevil217 said: And buffing Wasp so she counters Bishop is not the answer (this one isn't a reply to you Spud- I've just seen a few mention it). We already have that in Surfer. Having 1-2 characters that sidestep or punish Bishop's mechanics is great for those lucky enough to have those 1-2 characters. He will still obliterate the other 95% of the tier above him. He needs to be adjusted. You could argue the same thing for kitty and rocket. 95% of the 5 star tier cant deal with them either. 95% of the 4* tier can't either. I absolutely need Bishop (or WorthyCap) to have a reliable way to beat Kitty/Rocket in 4* land. Most of the counter teams in Shield Sim end up as Bishop/Peggy/XPool or Carol/WorthyCap/Rocket since you run into the wall of Gritty around 1700ish.@Daredevil217 Not sure why you are against more counters when the 4* tier has more and more counters and is better for it. A 2nd 5* who is immune to Stun, especially one with opposite colors of Surfer would be a great addition allowing you to team them together for an anti-stun team.Another potential power that I suggested for a 5* would be passive AP reduction (1 per cover). So with 3 cover it would be 3 less passive AP per match for Bishop and 5*Hawkeye (plus a host of other characters like Carol etc) meaning he would take that much longer to be able to use his stun.Or another interesting power would be a passive that unstuns any stunned teammate at the start of the turn. So that character themselves could be stunned, but if any of their teammates were stunned at the start of the turn they would automatically unstun them (if ProfX didn't exist it would make an ideal power for someone like Xavier to have). Then as long as this character didn't end up in front you'd undo any stuns from Bishop/WorthyCap.There are lots of possibilities that don't involve nerfing Bishop/WorthyCap.KGB I’m not against making Wasp the second unstunable character or a buff to weaker characters in general. I’m against that specific character and Surfer being the only counter to a character a tier below them. A top tier 5* obliterating 95% of the tier below them makes sense. A 4* obliterating 95% of the tier above... not so much. You're in luck! Surfer is not the only Bishop counter! Doc Ock is immune to stun as well. Black widow stuns someone randomly if someone is stunned as well. So just run teams that include the stun proof guys and you'll be all set. Next pvp try out ock and surfer, see how well you do Match 1 after 3 seeds in Mags PVP I was matched up with Bish/Jess. I tried Ock/Surfer per your request. Got annihilated. Bishop hit me with a bunch of overclocks. Mags continued to spam blue fueled by Bishop. Bishop eventually fell but Jess finished the job. Easy win for the CPU. Match 1. Could’ve used three packs and tried again but 1200 is a long climb!
HoundofShadow said: This is like asking why the specs of iPhone 7 (2016 release) isn't as good as iPhone 11 (2019 release). It's because time changes. Things get better over time. It's a general truth that you can see and observe happening to many things in your life. This phenomenon in many (card) games is called power creep. It's both positive and negative effects.They might end up doing health and match damage changes because it should be easier. Asking them to do damage/ap etc changes to a bunch of characters are likely to be difficult. This will require them to fully focus on testing and such for the next many months.
HoundofShadow said: I know what you are trying to say *sarcastically* but that conversation is limited to only HP and match damage.
Daredevil217 said: I’m sorry, but who is saying anything about rewards? Contrary to popular belief, it’s not just about rewards for some people. Some people care about how the game itself plays. All of us clamoring for the return of gauntlet aren’t doing so for those sweet sweet rewards. Being stunlocked 4 turns while your team gets obliterated is simply unfun. And a character getting 30 AP on turn 0 is broken. “The number of bishop or hammer teams vary from at least 3, to maybe 10, that I skip around in my 18-25 matches.”If that’s your way of “handling” them, then what that means to me is those players get a free shield. I mean I do the same (both use Bish as my shield and skip other Bish teams) so I’m not judging. Just pointing out that this is what people mean by “free shield”. To your last point... I could run any team and not know how many chose to skip me and who hit me just to avoid Bishop and top tier 5. I know for me I would skip a Bishop/Goblin team in favor of hitting a Thorkoye or Gritty team easily. Which is kind of crazy. But Bish is that good (and Gobby is underrated!).