When are you most likely to want to see how many cards are in your opponent's graveyard?

starfallstarfall Posts: 1,727 Chairperson of the Boards
The new choice of graveyard display seems very weird.

There's a suitable place to display the number of cards in your opponent's graveyard in the UI currently (in the same place that your GY readout is shown, only on Greg's side of the UI), and you'd be able to check it at any time. Why not use that?

Plus, I really don't like the fact that a brand new animation has been added to the game's UI. This one does seem to run concurrently with other game actions, which is nice, but we're still drowning in lag from 3 years of feature bloat, and it seems *highly* unlikely that this animation wont affect or be affected by existing lag.

When are you most likely to want to see how many cards are in your opponent's graveyard? 29 votes

Whenever I want to see it
89%
mrixl2520StormcrowAzerackTomBFindingHeart8wereotterCaemanGunmix25OpperstamperDropspotMatthewBeclasElfNeedsFoodMburn7boopersjtwoodAmpersandQuantiusTheophilusBoogeyman 26 votes
Only when I happen to catch the number being displayed briefly on the screen
0%
Neutral option
10%
bken1234WiLDRAGEHoradrim 3 votes
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Comments

  • Mburn7Mburn7 Posts: 3,315 Chairperson of the Boards
    Whenever I want to see it
    I mean, the new system isn't bad.  It flashes up often enough that if I did care I would know roughly how many cards are in Graveyard and Exile at any given time.

    But yeah its not an ideal thing.  Just think there are more serious issues with the new release to figure out first.
  • Gunmix25Gunmix25 Posts: 1,287 Chairperson of the Boards
    Whenever I want to see it
    Did the story mode and I found the animation really isn't anything to get worked up over. It works fine and it lets me know what the tally is. Placing the same info at the top permanently exposed as a counter is a good idea too. But in the grand scheme of things... not a big deal.
  • VolrakVolrak Posts: 669 Critical Contributor
    starfall said:
    There's a suitable place to display the number of cards in your opponent's graveyard in the UI currently (in the same place that your GY readout is shown, only on Greg's side of the UI), and you'd be able to check it at any time. Why not use that?
    I agree, additionally showing a static swipeable display for opponent's graveyard would be a further improvement.
    But with or without that, this particular animation design seems like a win.  It both simplifies things for experienced players (no need to swipe if you note changes as they occur), and helps newer players understand game state changes as they happen.  And it doesn't seem to slow down the game.
    You know, come to think of it, if there's all that room on the top of the screen to show a graveyard animation, why not just show the graveyard and exile there all the time, with no animation?
    UI clutter is generally seen as a bad thing, and MtGPQ continues to avoid it fairly well.  (I for one am happy to not be playing this: https://aionicthoughts.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/worstui.jpg)
    But why put this animation INTO the game when there are bigger issues? And why put the mana bonus animation into the game when there are bigger issues?
    Take your pick:
    • It's normal for companies to work on multiple tasks in parallel, they can't all be the top priority task
    • The best task for any given worker at any given point in time depends on factors other than absolute priority
    • Work in progress is sometimes better to complete even if higher priorities arise in the mean time
    • A company's actual work priorities are invariably different to any given customer's priorities for that company's work
  • FindingHeart8FindingHeart8 Posts: 2,668 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2019
    Whenever I want to see it
    Hey we all agree!!  High-five, everybody!  :)
  • Gunmix25Gunmix25 Posts: 1,287 Chairperson of the Boards
    Whenever I want to see it
    starfall said:
    Gunmix25 said:
    But in the grand scheme of things... not a big deal.
    I take this point completely. This animation is in the game now, why take the time to tweak it when there are bigger issues?

    But why put this animation INTO the game when there are bigger issues? And why put the mana bonus animation into the game when there are bigger issues?


    While I get that... you seem to be focused more on wanting the devs to fixate on only resolving existing problems and stop adding any new animations or mechanics. It's a new set. it is going to have new animations and new mechanics, that's business pure and simple. To not do so. leads to stagnation regardless of how pretty and smooth the game runs... if it's still playing the same cards 4 to 6 months later … no matter how good it operates players will lose interest quickly.  

    As to any issues to your present complaint they may not need to tweak it... irony is that you are definitely asking them to tweak it simply because you don't like it, not that it is buggy. 

    starfall said:
    This is just bonkers, tho. I've been a software engineer. If I'd have put an irrelevant feature into a game, I'd have had to justify to my boss why I'd done that rather than the actual list of tasks I had to do sitting next to me every day.

    "You've got a bug list right there Starfall, just work through it!"

    if you were then I'm sure you are fully aware that there are two parts to that job. Or more correctly, two teams. those that fix things and those that develop. I'm confident that feature crossed the boss' desk before even being worked on in the development department. Now if someone working on bugs comes up and says "Hey boss... I was working on a new feature idea..." ...yeah that deserves a little redirection as you described above. lol.

    My point is that both parts are equally important to the game. Many of these bugs have been fixed and many have been acknowledged and are being worked on.


  • StormcrowStormcrow Posts: 362 Mover and Shaker
    Whenever I want to see it
    starfall said:

    But why put this animation INTO the game when there are bigger issues? And why put the mana bonus animation into the game when there are bigger issues?
    Because they care more about attracting new players and growing the userbase than they care about keeping vets like you and I happy, because we're obviously already hooked on the game despite our complaints. And as Brigby said in the thread about the mana bonuses animation:

    One of the concerns we hear, particularly from new players, is that game play can be confusing to understand sometimes. While we know that veteran players like yourself are well aware of card and game mechanics, we're constantly looking for ways we can help other players understand exactly what's going on during a match.
    The fact of the matter is, if they could add an animation to this game that would get a new player who might spend money to join and hang around who otherwise would've quit the game early on, that's a much bigger win for them than making us slightly happier, because we're already hanging around and for the most part spending whatever we're gonna spend.

    Would I personally find it more useful to be able to check out their graveyard/exile totals the same way I can check the numbers on my own? Sure. But a new player might not even know where or how to check their own graveyard; these numbers are a little intrusive but the symbols appearing in context during gameplay probably helps teach a newbie "ok, this must be the graveyard symbol". And honestly I can live with a bit of noob-hand-holding as long as it doesn't slow my games down like the mana bonuses did. And I worry a lot more about a game's long-term health when the game's not making an effort to be more noob-friendly than when it is.
  • StormcrowStormcrow Posts: 362 Mover and Shaker
    Whenever I want to see it
    starfall said:
    It's not even slightly controversial to say that in any line of business it's far more expensive to sign up a new customer than to keep an existing one. Still, I suppose it's up to D3 to decide how they want to spend their money.
    It doesn't cost them anything to keep you! You've been complaining about this game on these forums virtually nonstop for months but you're still here. So whatever amount they're investing in keeping players playing is clearly sufficient. Me, I'm purely F2P so I don't expect them to be worried about keeping me.

    I'd assume D3 and/or Oktagon have internal metrics that show them their regular playerbase is A.) fairly stable and B.) too small to really hit whatever their financial targets are. So, they're trying to grow the userbase by making the game more noob-friendly. You can like that or not, but that's the logic to why they added this.
  • StormcrowStormcrow Posts: 362 Mover and Shaker
    Whenever I want to see it
    I feel like you've kind of lost the plot of this thread here, starfall. Your point that you're pure F2P and just a resource-sucking leech is literally making my argument for me: nobody involved in the development of this game should care if new animations drive you up the wall. All you do is cost them money, spending man-hours to listen to you costs them money, and driving you away from the game would be a net good to their game's bottom line. Why do you expect them to care about your opinions? Some unprovable belief that you have your finger on the pulse of what the MTGPQ whales really want?

    Those former whales you mention...they didn't quit (or quit spending) because of the animation this thread's about. As far as I can tell, the reaction to this animation by established players has been a really resounding, "Meh." I'd be shocked if anyone quit because of it, or spent less. I wouldn't be shocked if it really does make the game easier and more intuitive for first-timers.

    Now, you can assert, without any basis in actual financial figures, that Oktagon could have made more money on this update purely by catering harder to existing whales instead of spending development time on this animation...but the fact is, no game holds anyone's attention forever. Even if spending [however many development hours they spent on this] on some other feature to keep existing whales happy [that might well have required more development time than this did, anyhow] would have made a difference, it's still a short-term difference. Whales quit, eventually, no matter what anyone does. So you need to have a way to replace them. If a game's not retaining enough of the people who pick it up and try it out to replace the people who leave, the game's dying.

    In answer to your (leading) question: You have to sign up exactly one new whale to replace a whale.
  • WiLDRAGEWiLDRAGE Posts: 145 Tile Toppler
    Neutral option
    Honestly, unless I'm playing Kaya or some really janky corner case cards, my opponent's graveyard and exile are both fairly irrelevant.
  • StormcrowStormcrow Posts: 362 Mover and Shaker
    Whenever I want to see it
    Lol, so you're going full-on persecution complex now eh? I am not a member of any "faction" on these forums; I have had, and voiced, plenty of complaints about the game myself. Nobody is silencing you, and if there's a dominant group on this forum of any sort it's definitely not people who are against complaining about the game. I mean, seriously? Look around!

    I'm fine with reasonable critiques of the game. This particular critique is not reasonable: The devs added a change to the game that does nothing for your particular playstyle, therefore you are against it. That's simply self-centered and myopic. What I have been trying to impress on you is not "you should not share your negative opinions" but "you should not expect that your negative opinions will be responded to and prioritized over and above anyone other player's opinions". Including first-time players who have apparently communicated to the devs that they find the game confusing. But you seem to think your opinions on changes are the key to retaining the games' whales, without offering any explanation for why anyone should think that's true.

    tl;dr - there are other people playing this game besides you. A change that is not for you is not automatically a negative change; sometimes it's just not for you.
  • Gunmix25Gunmix25 Posts: 1,287 Chairperson of the Boards
    Whenever I want to see it
    starfall said:
    Stormcrow syugiaid:

    This particular critique is not reasonable
    I'll check with you in future and you can tell me what's reasonable.

    BTW have a look at the poll results: seems like a lot of people agree with my unreasonable criticism.
    Except your poll is flawed. I chose what fits my perception based on what you gave us as choices. For me Whenever I want to also includes whenever an opportunity is given be it automatic or manual. "Other" is simply a cop out way to buff one's opinion in a limited poll.

    So no, your poll is flawed and has no bearing. But ... your discussion isn't as are the others speaking their mind here as well. 
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