When will Gambit's black be fixed?

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JSP869
JSP869 Posts: 820 Critical Contributor
in MPQ Character Discussion
5* Gambit, in case it needed to be said, specifically the fact that his Black still blocks your other characters from using their red or purple.

When will this block be removed?

No, this will not make Gambit god-tier again, however, it might move him from the bottom of the pile to maybe mid-tier.

When the nerf came in I sold my fully-covered Gambit, and his replacement is now 1/2/- I have no regrets. I got a couple of Okoye covers and was more than happy when I finally Championed her.

So I recently pulled a Black Gambit cover, and it's been sitting on my Vine for a few days, and a few times while viewing my Vine I've come close to tapping "Train" on it. And that concerns me because it's on my vine because I am seriously considering selling it.

Because training Gambit to 1/2/1 will (IMO) not only not make him better, it will actually make him worse, because while I'll never use him unless he's the 5E, when he is, the 5E node will actually become more difficult if he's 1/2/1 than if I keep him at 1/2/-

As an almost 5-year veteran of this game you better believe I was happy when you implemented the "Saved Covers" mechanic, especially as it arrived when I was beginning to transition to the 5-star game.

That only makes it all the more sadder that I now find myself seriously considering selling a 5* cover when I don't have to. But I think I need to.

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  • Anon
    Anon Posts: 1,455 Chairperson of the Boards
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    When I read the topic title, I thought you were talking about 3* Gambit.

    Both of their Black abilities suck.
  • JSP869
    JSP869 Posts: 820 Critical Contributor
    edited January 2019
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    After redeeming my DDQ tokens and using the covers I got just now, I almost applied the black cover to Gambit again. So I finally just sold it for 2,000 Iso.
    Funny that 2,000 Iso is more useful (IMO) than 5* Gambit's black cover.
    Now you can fix his Black and remove the passive block :wink:
  • Quebbster
    Quebbster Posts: 8,070 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I sold my Gambit too and put him as a bonus hero to get a cover for a replacement. Of course, I got a black cover. Made his essential node very difficult to get through, a few times I even had him go to the front so he could die already and Thor could use all that red AP that had accumulated...
  • Jaedenkaal
    Jaedenkaal Posts: 3,357 Chairperson of the Boards
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    JSP869 said:
    5* Gambit, in case it needed to be said, specifically the fact that his Black still blocks your other characters from using their red or purple.

    When will this block be removed?

    No, this will not make Gambit god-tier again, however, it might move him from the bottom of the pile to maybe mid-tier.

    When the nerf came in I sold my fully-covered Gambit, and his replacement is now 1/2/- I have no regrets. I got a couple of Okoye covers and was more than happy when I finally Championed her.

    So I recently pulled a Black Gambit cover, and it's been sitting on my Vine for a few days, and a few times while viewing my Vine I've come close to tapping "Train" on it. And that concerns me because it's on my vine because I am seriously considering selling it.

    Because training Gambit to 1/2/1 will (IMO) not only not make him better, it will actually make him worse, because while I'll never use him unless he's the 5E, when he is, the 5E node will actually become more difficult if he's 1/2/1 than if I keep him at 1/2/-

    As an almost 5-year veteran of this game you better believe I was happy when you implemented the "Saved Covers" mechanic, especially as it arrived when I was beginning to transition to the 5-star game.

    That only makes it all the more sadder that I now find myself seriously considering selling a 5* cover when I don't have to. But I think I need to.
    Unless they want Gambit to go back to being the mandatory 3rd when anyone with Purple or Red powers is remotely "good", I'd guess never.
  • Kolence
    Kolence Posts: 969 Critical Contributor
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    Or it could add to AP cost of friendly red/purple powers, instead of completely blocking them? I doubt he'd be a mandatory 3rd. I agree "never" is probably right though. :D 
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 9,614 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I imagine the word "Gambit" has probably been deleted from their databases and replaced with "That card guy" after all the aggro.
  • JSP869
    JSP869 Posts: 820 Critical Contributor
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    Jaedenkaal said:
    JSP869 said:
    5* Gambit, in case it needed to be said, specifically the fact that his Black still blocks your other characters from using their red or purple.

    When will this block be removed?
    .
    .
    .
    Unless they want Gambit to go back to being the mandatory 3rd when anyone with Purple or Red powers is remotely "good", I'd guess never.
    And that is sad, because you're more than likely correct, and so I most likely will never Train Gambit's Black cover.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
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    0 cost ap ability that gives your team 3 purple and 3 red ap freely every 2 turn without condition is broken. By condition, I'm referring to conditions similar to JJ's and Hawkeye's. I say, rework his ability if you want to remove his blocking of allies' red and purple power. Otherwise, it should stay if you still want the free aps.
  • Kolence
    Kolence Posts: 969 Critical Contributor
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    "0 cost ap ability that gives your team 3 purple and 3 red ap freely every 2 turn without condition is broken." I'd agree with this. Only, the actual power does have conditions - the tile has to survive on the board and be around, active, every odd (or even?) turn. 

    But, let's say the tile is never matched or destroyed or locked, nor is Gambit stunned or sent airborne - it ticks the whole match every two turns. How long is the fight in turns, on average? How much extra AP does Gambit provide with that passive? If it added +10 AP to friendly red/purple powers instead of outright blocking them, would it still be broken? Or +8? +6? At what point would you be able to actually profit from the "free" extra AP by using  other red or purple powers with him? Using them once or twice for the whole match?
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Average matches are over in fewer than 10 turns for competitive players. 

    +3 red ap and +3 purple ap = 2 normal matches. This ability also serves as an insurance against board with few red/purple tiles.  Most active abilities in 5* land take three matches to activate.

    If you have two active powers in red and purple that uses 7-9 ap, it takes a total of 6 normal matches for both powers. So, instead of waiting on the 7th turn to fire both red and purple powers, you can fire both powers on your 5th turn. 2 turns make a lot of difference in the game. 



  • Kolence
    Kolence Posts: 969 Critical Contributor
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    Are you analizing the cost for Gambit firing his powers? Those must be accounted for already after his balance.

    I thought the point was if his passive increased the cost of other friendly red/purple powers instead of blocking them.

    If I have two actives in red and purple that use 7-9 AP and Gambit's black adds to their cost so they are now 15-17 AP (let's go with +8 AP for example), how many normal matches or turns would that take? Would the match be over before you could fire them?

    And if you did fire them, would you have gained all that much? In the time it took you to get all that red or purple - either matching it yourself, or waiting for it to automagically appear, you're either preventing yourself from matching some other colors for a few cheaper abilities or giving the enemy time to gather enough AP to fire their abilities. It has drawbacks either way...
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
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    It's counterintuitive to increase the cost of his allies's purple and red powers just for the sake of unblocking them.  This is a huge nerf to Gambit's allies, and I don't think it sits well with many here. 

    His blocking of allies' powers likely reflect his personality of being independent and somewhat self-centered.

    Based on what I remember, the devs will research on those characters and pick three traits that best represent the characters. Then, they will go back and forth with Marvel to develop the concept and how those traits will be represented in the game.

    I doubt it's simply removing this or adding that to balance the characters. So, I think it's better to rework his third ability if the players really want to lift the unblocking of his allies' red and purple power.


  • BlackBoltRocks
    BlackBoltRocks Posts: 1,160 Chairperson of the Boards
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    They should just give 5* Gambit the 5* version of 3* Gambit's Black. Make it deal AoE damage that's acceptable for 5AP (maybe ~4.5k to 5k at lv450, 5 covers?) and similarly proportionate damage to allies. This would greatly accelerate Black Bolt, and help provide fuel for himself without hindering his Red/Purple teammates.

    I'll also repeat: a great alternative would be using the beta version of the skill. Have it create Red or Purple Charged tiles which cost 5 or 6AP, and a passive component that generates Red and Purple AP whenever you make a match-4 or greater.
  • Kolence
    Kolence Posts: 969 Critical Contributor
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    HoundofShadow said:
    It's counterintuitive to increase the cost of his allies's purple and red powers just for the sake of unblocking them.  This is a huge nerf to Gambit's allies, and I don't think it sits well with many here. 

    His blocking of allies' powers likely reflect his personality of being independent and somewhat self-centered.

    Based on what I remember, the devs will research on those characters and pick three traits that best represent the characters. Then, they will go back and forth with Marvel to develop the concept and how those traits will be represented in the game.

    I doubt it's simply removing this or adding that to balance the characters. So, I think it's better to rework his third ability if the players really want to lift the unblocking of his allies' red and purple power.


    I guess if it's such a hassle to approve any reworks, that would explain why there are so few, even minor changes just to numbers like the Flaptain's was.

    As for Gambit, I dislike the blocking of allies powers in his current state very much. I understand it's about his character, but really - blocking or adding a heavy extra cost to their powers - it still sounds self-centered to me... :) And the latter at least gives more freedom in building your team for the fight. Even if your team ends up being not that fast or strong. I'm sure some people would enjoy simply being able to make it work.

    I do agree a complete rework on his black would be better. 
  • Warbringa
    Warbringa Posts: 1,290 Chairperson of the Boards
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    All they need to do is revert him back to his pre-nerf stats and simply remove his AP destruction from the black ability and he would be fair but back towards upper tier in the meta.  They could even keep the countdown tile if they wanted.  They would need to re-up his red damage and reduce the AP cost again.  Thinking it would be a great counter to Kitty/Grocket teams if he could overwrite those tiles :)
  • Kingart813
    Kingart813 Posts: 46 Just Dropped In
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    If they worked his black again  I can imagine the uproar from those that sold him.  (Always keep your hard work)
  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 2,933 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Change his Black back to the original form (not the one with AP destruction) BUT make it only generate the passive AP when he is in front.

    On defense he's easy to handle because you put him to the back till you are ready to deal with him and on offense he's reigned in by the need to tank colors to get the passive AP.

    KGB

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