Flip Ghost's Passive

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So Ghost (4star character) is a match damage powerhouse, right? And she can go invisible and hit hard with her red!

...only if you activate any of her abilities her passive match damage bonus drops from 300% extra (aka 4x normal match damage) to 100% extra (aka 2x normal match damage). Due to her red's damage being very poor unless she's already invisible, my typical usage for this character is to actively avoid using any of her abilities until I'm ready to use purple + red as a kill shot for the final target. This is boring, and makes her most useful as a "match damage" character whose abilities you avoid.

I propose that her blue passive be flipped around- the default state should be 100% bonus (or 2x total) match damage, and then when you activate an ability she creates a countdown, during which her match damage bonus is increased to 300% (or 4x). It would grant red AP as normal on expiry, and her passive match damage would drop back down.

Such a design would increase interactivity of the character- rather than "avoid using her abilities until the very end in a big kill shot", the character would be incentivized to try to use her abilities every 3 or 4 turns to maximize the uptime on her increased match damage. This also would fit better with the character concept- the MCU Ghost has to take active steps to fight her condition, vs. just passively being super powerful at all times.

Obviously a reduction in the default match damage amount would reduce her overall power, (bolded so hopefully people see that I have thought of this already and don't respond with "but that's a nerf!") so you would need to buff her in another way. Maybe make her abilities cheaper by 3 to 4 AP so that they are more frequently able to be used? Right now I would NEVER use her red if she weren't already invisible, but I would also never use her purple until/unless I was also ready to use her red. If her abilities were cheaper, I might use the red to juice out some match damage, or use her purple before I was ready for a kill shot. Maybe she has too little AP for a character that by default tanks all her colors due to the 2x match damage, and we should buff that? etc.

TL,DR: Ghost's blue passive ability in its current form encourages passive play except as a kill shot, which is boring (especially since she pairs very well with America who also encourages passive play), and flipping its states around (along with a buff to some other aspect of her kit would result in a more interesting (and still powerful) character.

Comments

  • DeNappa
    DeNappa Posts: 1,368 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I don't think I agree. Yes, if you fire her purple, you temporarily lose a bit of match damage, but in return she not only turns invisible, but the countdown that her blue passive creates also feeds her red. This allows you to fire her red power sooner: (at 5 covers) you would need only 4 red AP banked max when you fire her purple to get the big damage from her red, provided that the countdown tile resolves.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2019
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    I disagree with changing her current passive power. Using her powers, like many characters, is about timing.

    Firing any of her power creates only a 3-turn countdown. Her match damage still receives 100% boost even with the CD tile on the board. Besides, I'm sure there are other coloured tiles that you can match: green, yellow, black while the cd tile is on the board. Also, you use her together with two other characters most of the time. 
  • Jaedenkaal
    Jaedenkaal Posts: 3,357 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I can only imagine that the current implementation is completely on purpose. The story they're telling is: she is very powerful all the time, until she exerts herself too much in a short period of time, at which point she must recharge
  • Jwallyr
    Jwallyr Posts: 165 Tile Toppler
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    @DeNappa: Her turning invisible is not actually helpful most of the time. It doesn't reduce the damage coming in, it just shifts it away from her onto someone else. Unless that someone else has true healing, or a damage-reduction passive (and I can't think of any such character that synergizes with Ghost enough for me to care) it just means someone else needs a health pack eventually. As mentioned, if you're running her with someone like America who allows you to leverage Ghost's passive damage, the loss of match damage for those 3 turns could easily add up to more lost damage than firing her red a few turns early (which itself will reduce Ghost's damage for 3 more turns, causing more lost damage).

    At the end of the day, if you're firing her abilities at all you're reducing her most consistent, abusable damage, which is her match damage. Either you're running her in a team that doesn't leverage her match damage (which is a big mistake IMO) or you're only very infrequently going to want to throw her abilities except in a "kill shot" scenario that negates the downside of her passive AND the benefit of the CD it creates.

    @HoundofShadow: You haven't actually made a coherent argument that I can follow. "Using her powers is about timing"- sure, and with Ghost the only time you actually want to use her abilities is as a kill shot, due to the nerf to her match damage. "only 3 turn countdown" well that's 3 more turns than you COULD be giving up for no reason. "Her damage still receives 100% boost" Obviously, but that's 1/3 of the potential boost. "You can match other tiles" Ok, sure, but the point is that you don't HAVE to match other colors if you just hold the AP for the kill shot, etc. "You use her with 2 other characters" What's your point? These other characters are going to have their own abilities that probably don't penalize you for using them, and if you have a team that's built to leverage match damage you STILL won't want to nerf Ghost's match damage until you're ready to killshot.

    @Jaedenkaal You're welcome to interpret the movie depiction of Ghost in a different way, but that still doesn't change the fact that Ghost's in-game mechanics discourage actual use of her abilities, making her a non-interactive character. When combined with one of her best partners being America (all passives) you have a team that uses almost no abilities until the final turn when you're ready to throw Ghost's abilities as a kill shot. This makes for very monotonous play, which is just one of the reasons I'd like to see her kit reexamined.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2019
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    First of all, you will pairing Ghost with two other characters most of the time. 

    The main point is, there is more than one way to play a character. It's quite clear that you limited your playstyle of Ghost to:

    1) "actively avoid using any of her abilities until I'm ready to use purple + red as a kill shot for the final target."

    2) "would NEVER use her red if she weren't already invisible, but I would also never use her purple until/unless I was also ready to use her red."

    3) (my guess) team Ghost up with America Chavez most of the time due to you saying "Either you're running her in a team that doesn't leverage her match damage (which is a big mistake IMO)..." And "When combined with one of her best partners being America (all passives)..."

    Also, you are likely to be healthpack-conscious. Healthpack regenerates every 36 minutes unless you have 10 or more healthpacks. Healthpacks are meant to be used.

    Other characters have to tank when Ghost goes invisible. So what? Unless your team consist of only Blue, Red and Purple character, you will be matching other coloured tiles during the game, and those characters have to take damage anyway.

    Instead of playing Ghost as an offensive character or making other team complement her, flip her around and use her as a tank or turn her into a support character.

    Play around and be more creative with how you use her.
  • Jwallyr
    Jwallyr Posts: 165 Tile Toppler
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    I'm sorry, Hound, but you're not making a coherent argument that I can tell.

    1) "There is more than one way to play a character" - sure, and not all ways to play a character are equally good or powerful. Ghost is a great example- her red functionally costs 20 AP  (10 purple and 10 red) to do 10.2k damage at level 277. Sure she goes invisible and heals if she matches her invisibility tiles (which presumably you want to try to avoid doing to keep her invisible?) but defense doesn't win games, and this game is all about speed. Nightcrawler (not a top-tier character) does nearly as much damage in a similar situation (9 Red AP, but you have to have 10 AP in another color, does 8.6k) but he doesn't actually cost the AP in another color. For 11 red AP Valkyrie does similar damage (8.6k) but in multiple small chunks that work well with strike tiles (that she herself can create) which can finish a low-health target and do the remainder to the next kill target, and she self-accelerates with Bounty while denying them AP. These are just some of the 5s with direct damage reds that I happen to have champed, and they're all at least in the ballpark of effective damage vs an ability that costs, functionally, 20 AP.

    Simply put, if you're using Ghost for her purple and red (and not planning heavily to leverage her blue) you're using her badly. Meanwhile, as I have mentioned multiple times, you can get full mileage out of Ghost's passive by saving up the purple and red AP and firing at the end as a kill shot, but this does not in any way incentivize interactive play or create the "waxing and waning" power effect that seems to be the design intent for Ghost.

    2) I'm not super healthpack-conscious; I used to be but I have largely gotten past that. My point is that Ghost's purple as a defensive ability just falls flat, because it has very little impact on the actual damage taken by the team, it just reduces the proportion of that damage going to Ghost. This irrelevantly small reduction of damage to Ghost herself plus the damage nerf that you unnecessarily give yourself if you fire Ghost's purple or Red before the final turn of the game does not add up to any kind of useful "tanking" strategy, and once again- defense doesn't win games, offense wins games.

    3) "you will be matching other coloured tiles during the game" - If you're running Ghost, and you're not heavily prioritizing purple/red/blue matches specifically because of her passive match damage buff, I seriously question why you're bringing Ghost at all. Other characters have comparable nukes to her red, and more useful offensive abilities than her purple, and if you're not planning to prioritize her colors then you won't be farming up the AP for them either! Yes, you'll occasionally have to match other colors due to the board configuration, but you'll be making those matches anyway, and Ghost will already not tank those colors anyway. Trying to "save up" those matches for after you fire Ghost's purple or red early (for very little gain as pointed out above) is an unnecessary complication for a very straightforward character.

    4) "Instead of playing Ghost as an offensive character or making other team complement her, flip her around and use her as a tank or turn her into a support character.
    Play around and be more creative with how you use her." - this is one of the silliest things I've ever heard. You're talking about a character that has 3 abilities:
         1) Go invisible and minor self-heal (no tanking or support, purely a self-survival tool)
         2) Red ability: does damage (that's all it does, purely offensive tool)
         3) Blue passive: increases match damage and feeds red (but also costs red, or purple, and takes 3 turns to refund red) - either this is the slowest, least efficient purple-to-red AP generator I've ever seen... or it's a straight-up offense tool for her own abilities.

    Medusa is a great example of a support character that also has her own offense schtick that works reasonably well. Ghost is a perfect example of an offense-only character. She has comparatively low HP and high damage output, with her purple being an attempted finesse tool to allow players to play "hide the Ghost" to reduce her incoming damage. To suggest that she be played as anything other than an offensive specialist is just incredibly silly.