BlackBoltRocks said: @fight4thedream I agree with much of what you said. Doom could - and should - definitely be akin to Thanos in terms of health, and do much more damage, on par with GladiaThor and Jessica. Still, the devs designed him to be primarily defensive with a good nuke, and that's the lemons we'll have to make lemonade of.I'll just address your comparison of Doom to Okoye, particularly as support characters (so I won't compare their nukes). Sure, Okoye has a better passive, self-healing, and match damage. But Okoye is designed to be the head of the Dora Milaje: she boosts the skill damage of her allies while leading from the front, hence her high match (and TU) damage to allow her to tank. As a result of her tanking, she'll need to heal herself with her Yellow. Note that her Yellow doesn't provide a burst of health to her teammates; instead, it's meant to heal only Okoye while simultaneously providing fuel for Okoye to boost her teammates' damage output. So, in a sense, Okoye converts defense into offense.In contrast, I see Doom as sitting on his throne in Battleworld, giving his allies the support that they need to continue fighting, which is represented by his burst healing his teammates. And of course, Doom reshapes his world via his will, which is represented by the board shuffle. Perhaps not the best representation of his comic abilities, as you mention, but it isn't the worst representation either. And, like Okoye, Doom can also heal himself, albeit less reliably.In sum: Okoye, as someone who leads from the front, supports her teammates by boosting their damage output, tanking hits for them, and healing only herself to allow her to continue her role. God Doom, as someone who generally hangs back and surveys the scene, supports his teammates by restoring their health, and taking advantage of opposition manoeuvers (i.e. their making Black and Yellow matches) to sustain himself in order to continue his role.Doom supports his teammates by replenishing their health, so they can continue doing what they were already doing. Okoye takes what her teammates are already doing and makes it do even more.
GrimSkald said: Character power level has nothing to do with power in the game. Sorry. Seriously, eight characters in the 5* tier are quite literally physically normal human beings with no special powers, or at least no special powers that affect combat with invulnerable people in a meaningful way.I mean, Daredevil vs Phoenix? Hawkeye vs. Black Bolt? Black Widow vs Thanos? Captain America vs. the Silver Surfer? Sure, Cap's a master strategist, but what exactly is he going to do?It's never been about power level. High power level on a character (i.e. God-Emperor Doom,) makes it more likely they'll introduce the character at the 5* tier, but only a little.
Character power level has nothing to do with power in the game. Sorry. Seriously, eight characters in the 5* tier are quite literally physically normal human beings with no special powers, or at least no special powers that affect combat with invulnerable people in a meaningful way.
I mean, Daredevil vs Phoenix? Hawkeye vs. Black Bolt? Black Widow vs Thanos? Captain America vs. the Silver Surfer? Sure, Cap's a master strategist, but what exactly is he going to do?
It's never been about power level. High power level on a character (i.e. God-Emperor Doom,) makes it more likely they'll introduce the character at the 5* tier, but only a little.
Richyyy said: bluewolf said: There isn't a lot of room at the top of the meta at this point. What do you want? Push fight, watch the board blow up and win? 5 second fights? Nah, what I'd actually like, personally, is for them to address it from the other side. Give us events or new types of play where characters who have a particular skillset or are defensively strong are actually useful. Give us something (besides the occasional boss event) where you're not constantly striving for speed. Then these decent-but-different-but-not-good-enough characters could become meaningful. Maybe Doom keeps you alive long enough to beat a particular level you couldn't win with offensive strength, maybe there's a special board with no green that makes Thor significantly less useful, hell maybe they just bring back Heroics so I have to pay attention to the 90% of my roster that goes ignored.I agree with you that the game's already become virtually just a tap-fest in PvE and can't get much quicker without literally being decided by who has the better phone and faster internet connection. So give us more interesting styles of play that would in turn make these new characters potentially much more intriguing.
bluewolf said: There isn't a lot of room at the top of the meta at this point. What do you want? Push fight, watch the board blow up and win? 5 second fights?
Thanos said:Dooms getting a teammate to make him better. Also Namor sneak peek.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ix08IUZCwAI
Daredevil217 said: I agree, but I think the problem is if they are not game-breaking, but also not a smoldering dumpster fire, most categorize that as "meh".I'd say the top 5* in the game are (in release order): Thanos, Thor, Okoye, Jessica, and Kitty. So 4 of the top 5 have all been released the past year and some change. I think we've been spoiled with some pretty awesome releases relatively recently and as such everything that doesn't hit that high mark looks cruddy in comparison.Starting with Thor, we've had the 4 awesome ones, we've had two "dumpster fires" in Wasp and Kingpin and the rest have been in that "meh" category: Archangel, Ghost Rider, IW Cap, Loki, Cable, and now Doom.So 4/12 Excellent, 2/12 awful, 6/12 meh. That's half of the last dozen characters that fit into that meh category. I think that's where people's complaints come from. I think Doom has the potential to be the best among the meh bunch just due to his niche as an annoying defensive character, but he's still another "mid-tier" character.
I Think part of the problem is that people have been waiting for a good pair of fivestars Before opening their hoard. If you look at the list of the five top fivestars:
* Thanos was in Latest Legends with Dr Strange and Black Panther
* Thor was in Latest Legends with Gambit and Daredevil
* Okoye was in Latest Legends with Jessica Jones (and LumberCap)
Kitty though? When she entered it was Wasp and Loki, now she is with Cable and Kingpin. It's not a terribly exciting set no matter when you would pull - I suppose Loki/Kitty/Cable was the least bad set as you could at least avoid a "dumpster fire" fivestar that way.
I Think a lot of high end players are waiting for the next meta shift, and each fivestar release that does not contribute to the meta shift is a Disappointment.
Daredevil217 said: bluewolf said: Richyyy said: The problem is that the game design makes characters like this pretty worthless to most people trying to play competitively. Everything's based on speed, whether you're trying to clear nodes in PvE or trying to climb before you get hit back in PvP. So defensive characters become of significantly less use than offensive ones who can power through opponents. If there were more puzzle-based, thinking-necessary events/nodes/opponents/whatever then characters who are difficult to beat, or who keep you alive, would be much more valuable. As it is, I read Doom's powers, go "Mehhhhhh", and go back to waiting for a 5* who's going to change anything. Gambit: Aug '17. Thor: Oct '17.Okoye: May '18Next one: Kitty Pryde: Sept. '18 FIFYPeople keep asking, "When are we going to get a 5* that matters? All we get are duds. I'm going to be hoarding forever!". Those people are going to be really sad if they miss out on Kitty. Especially if we get a person who specializes in rapid/passive special tile creation in the 5* tier. She's super fast on offense, a great deterrent on defense, plays well with lots of others and gives a ton of newer players who missed out on Thorkoye a chance to sit at the big kids table (as evidenced by all the grittys popping up in PVP and sim). But yeah, when are we going to get a 5* who matters?
bluewolf said: Richyyy said: The problem is that the game design makes characters like this pretty worthless to most people trying to play competitively. Everything's based on speed, whether you're trying to clear nodes in PvE or trying to climb before you get hit back in PvP. So defensive characters become of significantly less use than offensive ones who can power through opponents. If there were more puzzle-based, thinking-necessary events/nodes/opponents/whatever then characters who are difficult to beat, or who keep you alive, would be much more valuable. As it is, I read Doom's powers, go "Mehhhhhh", and go back to waiting for a 5* who's going to change anything. Gambit: Aug '17. Thor: Oct '17.Okoye: May '18Next one: Kitty Pryde: Sept. '18
Richyyy said: The problem is that the game design makes characters like this pretty worthless to most people trying to play competitively. Everything's based on speed, whether you're trying to clear nodes in PvE or trying to climb before you get hit back in PvP. So defensive characters become of significantly less use than offensive ones who can power through opponents. If there were more puzzle-based, thinking-necessary events/nodes/opponents/whatever then characters who are difficult to beat, or who keep you alive, would be much more valuable. As it is, I read Doom's powers, go "Mehhhhhh", and go back to waiting for a 5* who's going to change anything.
Tony_Foot said: What comic run do I need to read for this doom stuff people are posting
Quebbster said: I Think part of the problem is that people have been waiting for a good pair of fivestars Before opening their hoard. If you look at the list of the five top fivestars:* Thanos was in Latest Legends with Dr Strange and Black Panther* Thor was in Latest Legends with Gambit and Daredevil* Okoye was in Latest Legends with Jessica Jones (and LumberCap)Kitty though? When she entered it was Wasp and Loki, now she is with Cable and Kingpin. It's not a terribly exciting set no matter when you would pull - I suppose Loki/Kitty/Cable was the least bad set as you could at least avoid a "dumpster fire" fivestar that way.I Think a lot of high end players are waiting for the next meta shift, and each fivestar release that does not contribute to the meta shift is a Disappointment.
BlackBoltRocks said: Tony_Foot said: What comic run do I need to read for this doom stuff people are posting Secret Wars (2015).
SymmeTrey said: He's light years ahead of Kingpin & Wasp (both trash tier) and Loki (lower mid-tier).
Quebbster said: I Think the devs expected Cable to work as a good partner for Kitty TBH - he is an X-man and produces strike tiles she can buff at least. But of course, the devs also expected Archangel and LumberCap to work as counters to Gambit...
ThaRoadWarrior said: Looks like the Doom store and Vault are live. just 1 sue in there, we giving odds she'll be his feeder?Brigby The Vault is live, but the preview in the first post of this thread says it goes live tomorrow. Bug, Feature, or Typo?
bbigler said: It seems like these characters have high costs because Demiurge thinks matches last a long time.
It seems like these characters have high costs because Demiurge thinks matches last a long time.
Brigby said: ThaRoadWarrior said: Looks like the Doom store and Vault are live. just 1 sue in there, we giving odds she'll be his feeder?Brigby The Vault is live, but the preview in the first post of this thread says it goes live tomorrow. Bug, Feature, or Typo? Hmm good catch! Looks like it does, in fact, start today, as opposed to tomorrow. Apologies for the confusion. I'll correct that right now.
bluewolf said: BlackBoltRocks said: Tony_Foot said: What comic run do I need to read for this doom stuff people are posting Secret Wars (2015). If you want to really dig in, start with FF or go to Avengers, both by Jonathan Hickman, where he set the table for Secret Wars.Secret Wars also spawned a bunch of connected minis which took place on a world Doom created.All top notch stuff (the minis are varying quality). Hickman is a really smart writer which could be more or less appealing depending on what you like your comics to be like. Lots of cosmic ideas introduced.