Constructive Criticism vs Complaining

System · December 2018

This discussion was created from comments split from: Thinking of Quitting MPQ.

shardwick · December 2018

Daredevil217 said:

MY EXPERIENCE:

Day 1567 here and I’m still loving it.

TO THOSE WHO FEEL LIKE QUITTING....

or feeling burnt out, or feeling like it’s a chore, I say quit. Like right now. The sunk cost fallacy is just that... a fallacy. I get that you have spent copious amounts of time and money on this game and feel like it would all be a waste to leave, but consider the fact that maybe you just “beat the game”, and it’s okay to move on. For those with over 1,000 days you got an immense amount of entertainment from a FTP match 3 game and thus got a return on that investment. Gone are the days of struggling to beat Crash, or looking forward to the newest forum character rankings, or getting excited for a new release. Now you just grind every event/node for CP to use on another character who is irrelevant because they’re not Thorkoye. You can absolutely leave the game and I promise you likely won’t miss it at all. If it’s a chore or second job that you have to muster up the will to play, move on.

Though reality is most will continue to complain incessantly and not leave.

I never really got posts like this because if people didn't complain then the game would almost never evolve. The game is pretty much perfect for you in its current form? Awesome. Others want to see it grow and change for the better so that they don't have to move on.

Daredevil217 · December 2018

shardwick said:

show previous quotes

Daredevil217 said:

MY EXPERIENCE:

Day 1567 here and I’m still loving it.

TO THOSE WHO FEEL LIKE QUITTING....

or feeling burnt out, or feeling like it’s a chore, I say quit. Like right now. The sunk cost fallacy is just that... a fallacy. I get that you have spent copious amounts of time and money on this game and feel like it would all be a waste to leave, but consider the fact that maybe you just “beat the game”, and it’s okay to move on. For those with over 1,000 days you got an immense amount of entertainment from a FTP match 3 game and thus got a return on that investment. Gone are the days of struggling to beat Crash, or looking forward to the newest forum character rankings, or getting excited for a new release. Now you just grind every event/node for CP to use on another character who is irrelevant because they’re not Thorkoye. You can absolutely leave the game and I promise you likely won’t miss it at all. If it’s a chore or second job that you have to muster up the will to play, move on.

Though reality is most will continue to complain incessantly and not leave.

I never really got posts like this because if people didn't complain then the game would almost never evolve. The game is pretty much perfect for you in its current form? Awesome. Others want to see it grow and change for the better so that they don't have to move on.

Complaining about the game and asking for improvements is different. I’m fully on board with constructive criticism and wanting to see a game you love grow and evolve. But talking about it being a chore, a second job, not being fun, etc. at some point you have to look at yourself as well. Someone in an unhealthy relationship (which I believe many here have with this game/the developers) can ask the other person to change over and over again, but there comes a time when you have to take responsibility for your own happiness and walk away when you are no longer getting adequate returns on what you’re putting into the relationship.

But it like I said, more often than not people will continue taking about wanting to quit and how unhappy they are but will continue to play.

Edit: Also, I never said it’s “perfect in its current form”. I complain about many things I’m unhappy with and some of my criticisms of the game helped spearhead changes. Such as ending vaulting and moving to a bigger cover save bank. But the game brings me way more joy than frustration (maybe because I haven’t transitioned to 5* play? Maybe because I found goals and a play style that works for me?). If this wasn’t the case I’d probably quit.

shardwick · December 2018

Daredevil217 said:

show previous quotes

shardwick said:

Daredevil217 said:

MY EXPERIENCE:

Day 1567 here and I’m still loving it.

TO THOSE WHO FEEL LIKE QUITTING....

or feeling burnt out, or feeling like it’s a chore, I say quit. Like right now. The sunk cost fallacy is just that... a fallacy. I get that you have spent copious amounts of time and money on this game and feel like it would all be a waste to leave, but consider the fact that maybe you just “beat the game”, and it’s okay to move on. For those with over 1,000 days you got an immense amount of entertainment from a FTP match 3 game and thus got a return on that investment. Gone are the days of struggling to beat Crash, or looking forward to the newest forum character rankings, or getting excited for a new release. Now you just grind every event/node for CP to use on another character who is irrelevant because they’re not Thorkoye. You can absolutely leave the game and I promise you likely won’t miss it at all. If it’s a chore or second job that you have to muster up the will to play, move on.

Though reality is most will continue to complain incessantly and not leave.

I never really got posts like this because if people didn't complain then the game would almost never evolve. The game is pretty much perfect for you in its current form? Awesome. Others want to see it grow and change for the better so that they don't have to move on.

Complaining about the game and asking for improvements is different. I’m fully on board with constructive criticism and wanting to see a game you love grow and evolve. But talking about it being a chore, a second job, not being fun, etc. at some point you have to look at yourself as well. Someone in an unhealthy relationship (which I believe many here have with this game/the developers) can ask the other person to change over and over again, but there comes a time when you have to take responsibility for your own happiness and walk away when you are no longer getting adequate returns on what you’re putting into the relationship.

But it like I said, more often than not people will continue taking about wanting to quit and how unhappy they are but will continue to play.

That's the problem. Constructive criticism is immediately written off as complaining. I mean just look at how the community treated pvp going from points based to win based, back to points, and eventually to a hybrid system. If you opposed points based then people would rip your head off and tell you to just not play pvp because you were "ruining the game." And the game does feel like a chore in its current form. It's why people like myself are always advocating to change pve to a system that is more focused on progression with no time slices and that has more puzzle elements. You break up the monotony and let people play more on their terms. Seven day event? Play at your own pace and not have to worry about if a sub is 24 or 48 hrs long because you would have the length of the event to do all the missions. Play all subs on the very last day if you want or knockout everything on the very first day and then relax for the rest of the event. That would ease a ton of the burnout that many people are dealing with.

Daredevil217 · December 2018

shardwick said:

show previous quotes

Daredevil217 said:

shardwick said:

Daredevil217 said:

MY EXPERIENCE:

Day 1567 here and I’m still loving it.

TO THOSE WHO FEEL LIKE QUITTING....

or feeling burnt out, or feeling like it’s a chore, I say quit. Like right now. The sunk cost fallacy is just that... a fallacy. I get that you have spent copious amounts of time and money on this game and feel like it would all be a waste to leave, but consider the fact that maybe you just “beat the game”, and it’s okay to move on. For those with over 1,000 days you got an immense amount of entertainment from a FTP match 3 game and thus got a return on that investment. Gone are the days of struggling to beat Crash, or looking forward to the newest forum character rankings, or getting excited for a new release. Now you just grind every event/node for CP to use on another character who is irrelevant because they’re not Thorkoye. You can absolutely leave the game and I promise you likely won’t miss it at all. If it’s a chore or second job that you have to muster up the will to play, move on.

Though reality is most will continue to complain incessantly and not leave.

I never really got posts like this because if people didn't complain then the game would almost never evolve. The game is pretty much perfect for you in its current form? Awesome. Others want to see it grow and change for the better so that they don't have to move on.

Complaining about the game and asking for improvements is different. I’m fully on board with constructive criticism and wanting to see a game you love grow and evolve. But talking about it being a chore, a second job, not being fun, etc. at some point you have to look at yourself as well. Someone in an unhealthy relationship (which I believe many here have with this game/the developers) can ask the other person to change over and over again, but there comes a time when you have to take responsibility for your own happiness and walk away when you are no longer getting adequate returns on what you’re putting into the relationship.

But it like I said, more often than not people will continue taking about wanting to quit and how unhappy they are but will continue to play.

That's the problem. Constructive criticism is immediately written off as complaining. I mean just look at how the community treated pvp going from points based to win based, back to points, and eventually to a hybrid system. If you opposed points based then people would rip your head off and tell you to just not play pvp because you were "ruining the game." And the game does feel like a chore in its current form. It's why people like myself are always advocating to change pve to a system that is more focused on progression with no time slices and that has more puzzle elements. You break up the monotony and let people play more on their terms. Seven day event? Play at your own pace and not have to worry about if a sub is 24 or 48 hrs long because you would have the length of the event to do all the missions. Play all subs on the very last day if you want or knockout everything on the very first day and then relax for the rest of the event. That would ease a ton of the burnout that many people are dealing with.

Constructive criticism, complaints.... both are fine. My post wasn’t for the people who voice their complaints about a game they still enjoy and want to see improve. Mine was for the people who see the game as a whole as a soul-sucking grind. And there are plenty out there who no longer find it enjoyable but continue to act as if they are being forced to play this game. You don’t have to play on a holiday, even a new release event. You can play progression-only PVE* at your own pace and don’t have to grind optimally. You can play characters other than Thorkoye. And you can not play at all. These are all choices people have right this second.

*Sidenote: I really hope they don’t change PVE. I like that those who want to play for progression can and there’s something for people who like competition as well (like myself). Please don’t turn it into Deadpool’s Daily, which is a chore to get through. The progression-only people have that and boss events. We currently have a great mix.

shardwick · December 2018

Daredevil217 said:

show previous quotes

shardwick said:

Daredevil217 said:

shardwick said:

Daredevil217 said:

MY EXPERIENCE:

Day 1567 here and I’m still loving it.

TO THOSE WHO FEEL LIKE QUITTING....

or feeling burnt out, or feeling like it’s a chore, I say quit. Like right now. The sunk cost fallacy is just that... a fallacy. I get that you have spent copious amounts of time and money on this game and feel like it would all be a waste to leave, but consider the fact that maybe you just “beat the game”, and it’s okay to move on. For those with over 1,000 days you got an immense amount of entertainment from a FTP match 3 game and thus got a return on that investment. Gone are the days of struggling to beat Crash, or looking forward to the newest forum character rankings, or getting excited for a new release. Now you just grind every event/node for CP to use on another character who is irrelevant because they’re not Thorkoye. You can absolutely leave the game and I promise you likely won’t miss it at all. If it’s a chore or second job that you have to muster up the will to play, move on.

Though reality is most will continue to complain incessantly and not leave.

I never really got posts like this because if people didn't complain then the game would almost never evolve. The game is pretty much perfect for you in its current form? Awesome. Others want to see it grow and change for the better so that they don't have to move on.

Complaining about the game and asking for improvements is different. I’m fully on board with constructive criticism and wanting to see a game you love grow and evolve. But talking about it being a chore, a second job, not being fun, etc. at some point you have to look at yourself as well. Someone in an unhealthy relationship (which I believe many here have with this game/the developers) can ask the other person to change over and over again, but there comes a time when you have to take responsibility for your own happiness and walk away when you are no longer getting adequate returns on what you’re putting into the relationship.

But it like I said, more often than not people will continue taking about wanting to quit and how unhappy they are but will continue to play.

That's the problem. Constructive criticism is immediately written off as complaining. I mean just look at how the community treated pvp going from points based to win based, back to points, and eventually to a hybrid system. If you opposed points based then people would rip your head off and tell you to just not play pvp because you were "ruining the game." And the game does feel like a chore in its current form. It's why people like myself are always advocating to change pve to a system that is more focused on progression with no time slices and that has more puzzle elements. You break up the monotony and let people play more on their terms. Seven day event? Play at your own pace and not have to worry about if a sub is 24 or 48 hrs long because you would have the length of the event to do all the missions. Play all subs on the very last day if you want or knockout everything on the very first day and then relax for the rest of the event. That would ease a ton of the burnout that many people are dealing with.

Constructive criticism, complaints.... both are fine. My post wasn’t for the people who voice their complaints about a game they still enjoy and want to see improve. Mine was for the people who see the game as a whole as a soul-sucking grind. And there are plenty out there who no longer find it enjoyable but continue to act as if they are being forced to play this game. You don’t have to play on a holiday, even a new release event. You can play progression-only PVE* at your own pace and don’t have to grind optimally. You can play characters other than Thorkoye. And you can not play at all. These are all choices people have right this second.

*Sidenote: I really hope they don’t change PVE. I like that those who want to play for progression can and there’s something for people who like competition as well (like myself). Please don’t turn it into Deadpool’s Daily, which is a chore to get through. The progression-only people have that and boss events. We currently have a great mix.

Pve is broken and has been since they changed to clearance level based scaling because even though roster based scaling sucked at least players were usually at around the same level. Once in a blue moon maybe you would play against someone with a much better roster but that was almost always because they screwed up and picked the wrong clearance level. These days? 4* players are playing competitively on the lowest clearance levels against 1* and 2* players. That's not exactly my idea of competition. It'd be like if your friend invited you to go to his 12 yr old kid's track meet and then you get there and see that the guys he's going up against are a mix of other 12 yr old kids as well as guys in high school, college and even at the pro level.

That's why my idea of an updated system makes sense because it fixes pve across the board.

Spudgutter · December 2018

Daredevil217 said:

Edit: Also, I never said it’s “perfect in its current form”. I complain about many things I’m unhappy with and some of my criticisms of the game helped spearhead changes. Such as ending vaulting and moving to a bigger cover save bank. But the game brings me way more joy than frustration (maybe because I haven’t transitioned to 5* play? Maybe because I found goals and a play style that works for me?). If this wasn’t the case I’d probably quit.

I saw you make this claim somewhere else, but i didn't have the time to address it. Today i do.

You want an example of someone making a change? Look at rocket and his campaign to get rid of tapping. Personally, i found it pretty annoying to see all of those posts, and didn't feel it impacted me, but he saw a problem collected data, made post after post, until it was changed. Pretty sure it was also rocket that took on the first iteration of wins based pvp, before there hybrid system. Same thing, data collected, posts made, changes happened.

For the cover bank saving, you saw one of their poorly implemented ideas, made the same suggestion that dozens of other people on here and discord made(let alone any number of people that don't go to either place who had the same thought but didn't type it out), and think you get some sort of credit for it? Really?

And vaulting. Wow. As one of the few vocal fans of vaulting, i assure you, there were plenty, and i mean plenty, of people unhappy with vaulting. To my knowledge, you did not do anything special to "spearhead changes" with vaulting.

MrDupaTM · December 2018

Daredevil217 said:

*Sidenote: I really hope they don’t change PVE. I like that those who want to play for progression can and there’s something for people who like competition as well (like myself). Please don’t turn it into Deadpool’s Daily, which is a chore to get through. The progression-only people have that and boss events. We currently have a great mix.

I like competition, however being from Europe I have a hard time getting a right time slot in my agenda.
The only semi-viable options for me are: 6PM and since I leave work at 5PM you can see it's impossible for me to choose this one AND be competitive, the next one is 11PM and here we go again, it's a bit late since it takes about 2 hours to clear it. I sure CAN do it (and every now and then I do) but I need some sleep sometime. You act like everybody was in the exact same situation as you are and if not - who cares, they must be progression-only people, right?

JackTenrec · December 2018

Complaining: 5* are too hard to acquire.

Constructive criticism: 5* are too hard to acquire; maybe D3 should consider: e.g. token "streak-breakers", more feeders, adding 4* covers outside of T10, adding additional progression covers, etc.

Unfortunately, constructive suggestions that go unanswered and unimplemented might as well be complaining.

Daredevil217 · December 2018

MrDupaTM said:

show previous quotes

Daredevil217 said:

*Sidenote: I really hope they don’t change PVE. I like that those who want to play for progression can and there’s something for people who like competition as well (like myself). Please don’t turn it into Deadpool’s Daily, which is a chore to get through. The progression-only people have that and boss events. We currently have a great mix.

I like competition, however being from Europe I have a hard time getting a right time slot in my agenda.
The only semi-viable options for me are: 6PM and since I leave work at 5PM you can see it's impossible for me to choose this one AND be competitive, the next one is 11PM and here we go again, it's a bit late since it takes about 2 hours to clear it. I sure CAN do it (and every now and then I do) but I need some sleep sometime. You act like everybody was in the exact same situation as you are and if not - who cares, they must be progression-only people, right?

No, I'm saying that those who want to play for progression-only can without changing the system. You have a point that not everyone can play competitively due to real life demands (I do the 11 PM one too by the way), but taking away placement rewards and making everything progression does not solve that issue.

Bowgentle · December 2018

MrDupaTM said:

show previous quotes

Daredevil217 said:

*Sidenote: I really hope they don’t change PVE. I like that those who want to play for progression can and there’s something for people who like competition as well (like myself). Please don’t turn it into Deadpool’s Daily, which is a chore to get through. The progression-only people have that and boss events. We currently have a great mix.

I like competition, however being from Europe I have a hard time getting a right time slot in my agenda.
The only semi-viable options for me are: 6PM and since I leave work at 5PM you can see it's impossible for me to choose this one AND be competitive, the next one is 11PM and here we go again, it's a bit late since it takes about 2 hours to clear it. I sure CAN do it (and every now and then I do) but I need some sleep sometime. You act like everybody was in the exact same situation as you are and if not - who cares, they must be progression-only people, right?

If you take two hours for end grind plus starting clears, time slot won't matter for you.

MegaBee · December 2018

Bowgentle said:

If you take two hours for end grind plus starting clears, time slot won't matter for you.

How long should it take?

shardwick · December 2018

JackTenrec said:

Complaining: 5* are too hard to acquire.

Constructive criticism: 5* are too hard to acquire; maybe D3 should consider: e.g. token "streak-breakers", more feeders, adding 4* covers outside of T10, adding additional progression covers, etc.

Unfortunately, constructive suggestions that go unanswered and unimplemented might as well be complaining.

Yeah, to me it doesn't feel like the devs or D3 are listening or even really care. This last survey was the first time that I didn't even bother to fill it out. I mean my account is bugged in regards to bonus heroes, the game keeps adding and removing characters all the time and it's annoying as hell, and they don't care about fixing it so why would they care about any features that I would like to see implemented?

I like those ideas though. A guaranteed 5* or BH after so many legendary token pulls would be cool too.

shartattack · December 2018

MegaBee said:

show previous quotes

Bowgentle said:

If you take two hours for end grind plus starting clears, time slot won't matter for you.

How long should it take?

90 min for final 3 and first 4 clears, tops.

bbigler · December 2018

shartattack said:

show previous quotes

MegaBee said:

Bowgentle said:

If you take two hours for end grind plus starting clears, time slot won't matter for you.

How long should it take?

90 min for final 3 and first 4 clears, tops.

That's already a reality for many players, 45 min end clears and 40 min beginning clears. If you're in 3* land, then it will take longer. If you're in 5* land, then shorter.

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