Azor's Gateway Node needs to finally be nerfed

24

Comments

  • Rhasget
    Rhasget Posts: 412 Mover and Shaker
    bken1234 said:
    Mburn7 said:
    Why 4.1?  That's Mavren.  Only real issue is the chance that he nukes his own creatures sometimes, and that doesn't happen incredibly often.

    5.1 is definitely an annoying node because of the life objective, that is really the only thing that should be changed.
    Actually both of them for nuking their own creatures. 
    How do 5.1 kill his own creatures? I have never seen that.
    I don't remember failing that objective ever

    I wrote my approach to it in your thread about BoFT also.
  • Gabrosin
    Gabrosin Posts: 259 Mover and Shaker
    Rhasget said:
    bken1234 said:
    Mburn7 said:
    Why 4.1?  That's Mavren.  Only real issue is the chance that he nukes his own creatures sometimes, and that doesn't happen incredibly often.

    5.1 is definitely an annoying node because of the life objective, that is really the only thing that should be changed.
    Actually both of them for nuking their own creatures. 
    How do 5.1 kill his own creatures? I have never seen that.
    I don't remember failing that objective ever

    I wrote my approach to it in your thread about BoFT also.
    Golden Guardian (the card) makes an activated node that eats its own creatures.

    Speed secondaries always suck and I'd be happy to see them removed from the game entirely.  The speed secondary on the Gateway is probably the worst offender.

  • FindingHeart8
    FindingHeart8 Posts: 2,734 Chairperson of the Boards
    Gabrosin said:
    Rhasget said:
    bken1234 said:
    Mburn7 said:
    Why 4.1?  That's Mavren.  Only real issue is the chance that he nukes his own creatures sometimes, and that doesn't happen incredibly often.

    5.1 is definitely an annoying node because of the life objective, that is really the only thing that should be changed.
    Actually both of them for nuking their own creatures. 
    How do 5.1 kill his own creatures? I have never seen that.
    I don't remember failing that objective ever

    I wrote my approach to it in your thread about BoFT also.
    Golden Guardian (the card) makes an activated node that eats its own creatures.

    Speed secondaries always suck and I'd be happy to see them removed from the game entirely.  The speed secondary on the Gateway is probably the worst offender.

    Definitely the worst offender in standard (or in the past couple of years), I agree.

    I think the Demon Prince in Avacyn's Madness had a "win in 6 turns" or something, at he had like 300+ life.  That might be the worst offender ever, merely because you had to have the most broken cards and combos at the time to event have a chance at it, then have the luck to draw the right cards, then have the luck to match enough mana to play the combo.  It was practically impossible, but no one cared because you didn't need to (and couldn't possibly) complete all the objectives in that event.  Different situation entirely, just wanted to share ;)

  • Mburn7
    Mburn7 Posts: 3,427 Chairperson of the Boards
    FindingHeart8 said:
    Gabrosin said:
    Rhasget said:
    bken1234 said:
    Mburn7 said:
    Why 4.1?  That's Mavren.  Only real issue is the chance that he nukes his own creatures sometimes, and that doesn't happen incredibly often.

    5.1 is definitely an annoying node because of the life objective, that is really the only thing that should be changed.
    Actually both of them for nuking their own creatures. 
    How do 5.1 kill his own creatures? I have never seen that.
    I don't remember failing that objective ever

    I wrote my approach to it in your thread about BoFT also.
    Golden Guardian (the card) makes an activated node that eats its own creatures.

    Speed secondaries always suck and I'd be happy to see them removed from the game entirely.  The speed secondary on the Gateway is probably the worst offender.

    Definitely the worst offender in standard (or in the past couple of years), I agree.

    I think the Demon Prince in Avacyn's Madness had a "win in 6 turns" or something, at he had like 300+ life.  That might be the worst offender ever, merely because you had to have the most broken cards and combos at the time to event have a chance at it, then have the luck to draw the right cards, then have the luck to match enough mana to play the combo.  It was practically impossible, but no one cared because you didn't need to (and couldn't possibly) complete all the objectives in that event.  Different situation entirely, just wanted to share ;)

    Nah, the worst one was the 300 health Angel in the Kaladesh event whose ability gave 30 life and whose deck was only made up of flying vigilance creatures
  • FindingHeart8
    FindingHeart8 Posts: 2,734 Chairperson of the Boards
    Mburn7 said:
    FindingHeart8 said:
    Gabrosin said:
    Rhasget said:
    bken1234 said:
    Mburn7 said:
    Why 4.1?  That's Mavren.  Only real issue is the chance that he nukes his own creatures sometimes, and that doesn't happen incredibly often.

    5.1 is definitely an annoying node because of the life objective, that is really the only thing that should be changed.
    Actually both of them for nuking their own creatures. 
    How do 5.1 kill his own creatures? I have never seen that.
    I don't remember failing that objective ever

    I wrote my approach to it in your thread about BoFT also.
    Golden Guardian (the card) makes an activated node that eats its own creatures.

    Speed secondaries always suck and I'd be happy to see them removed from the game entirely.  The speed secondary on the Gateway is probably the worst offender.

    Definitely the worst offender in standard (or in the past couple of years), I agree.

    I think the Demon Prince in Avacyn's Madness had a "win in 6 turns" or something, at he had like 300+ life.  That might be the worst offender ever, merely because you had to have the most broken cards and combos at the time to event have a chance at it, then have the luck to draw the right cards, then have the luck to match enough mana to play the combo.  It was practically impossible, but no one cared because you didn't need to (and couldn't possibly) complete all the objectives in that event.  Different situation entirely, just wanted to share ;)

    Nah, the worst one was the 300 health Angel in the Kaladesh event whose ability gave 30 life and whose deck was only made up of flying vigilance creatures
    oh yeaaaaah, totally forgot about her. :D

    I was actually able to meet that objective though.  Probably because I had better cards.
  • ArielSira
    ArielSira Posts: 576 Critical Contributor
    We had cycling for that fight :p that and Huf Deploy were my tactics.
  • HarryMason
    HarryMason Posts: 136 Tile Toppler
    Since akh and hou are gone, totally non interactive combo decks seem to work best . I tried a different deck each round . Winning wasn't a problem and 10 turns was easy if I was either lucky or not relying on creatures . Creatures are just kind of a liability against a deck that's 40% removal plus has an annoying blocker
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  • James13
    James13 Posts: 665 Critical Contributor
    edited September 2018
    Teysa said:
    Gun Bunny said:
    Now? Torgaar cannon
    It's an appalling grind, tho, isn't it?
    You have to count to 74 with that method.  That's really not too bad, especially if you're listening to music or a podcast.  Easier inputs than cycling abuse.
  • Gabrosin
    Gabrosin Posts: 259 Mover and Shaker
    Mburn7 said:
    FindingHeart8 said:
    Gabrosin said:
    Rhasget said:
    bken1234 said:
    Mburn7 said:
    Why 4.1?  That's Mavren.  Only real issue is the chance that he nukes his own creatures sometimes, and that doesn't happen incredibly often.

    5.1 is definitely an annoying node because of the life objective, that is really the only thing that should be changed.
    Actually both of them for nuking their own creatures. 
    How do 5.1 kill his own creatures? I have never seen that.
    I don't remember failing that objective ever

    I wrote my approach to it in your thread about BoFT also.
    Golden Guardian (the card) makes an activated node that eats its own creatures.

    Speed secondaries always suck and I'd be happy to see them removed from the game entirely.  The speed secondary on the Gateway is probably the worst offender.

    Definitely the worst offender in standard (or in the past couple of years), I agree.

    I think the Demon Prince in Avacyn's Madness had a "win in 6 turns" or something, at he had like 300+ life.  That might be the worst offender ever, merely because you had to have the most broken cards and combos at the time to event have a chance at it, then have the luck to draw the right cards, then have the luck to match enough mana to play the combo.  It was practically impossible, but no one cared because you didn't need to (and couldn't possibly) complete all the objectives in that event.  Different situation entirely, just wanted to share ;)

    Nah, the worst one was the 300 health Angel in the Kaladesh event whose ability gave 30 life and whose deck was only made up of flying vigilance creatures
    Sure, but that wasn't a coalition event where your points matter.  You could completely skip attempting that objective and be just fine.

  • Mburn7
    Mburn7 Posts: 3,427 Chairperson of the Boards
    Gabrosin said:
    Mburn7 said:
    FindingHeart8 said:
    Gabrosin said:
    Rhasget said:
    bken1234 said:
    Mburn7 said:
    Why 4.1?  That's Mavren.  Only real issue is the chance that he nukes his own creatures sometimes, and that doesn't happen incredibly often.

    5.1 is definitely an annoying node because of the life objective, that is really the only thing that should be changed.
    Actually both of them for nuking their own creatures. 
    How do 5.1 kill his own creatures? I have never seen that.
    I don't remember failing that objective ever

    I wrote my approach to it in your thread about BoFT also.
    Golden Guardian (the card) makes an activated node that eats its own creatures.

    Speed secondaries always suck and I'd be happy to see them removed from the game entirely.  The speed secondary on the Gateway is probably the worst offender.

    Definitely the worst offender in standard (or in the past couple of years), I agree.

    I think the Demon Prince in Avacyn's Madness had a "win in 6 turns" or something, at he had like 300+ life.  That might be the worst offender ever, merely because you had to have the most broken cards and combos at the time to event have a chance at it, then have the luck to draw the right cards, then have the luck to match enough mana to play the combo.  It was practically impossible, but no one cared because you didn't need to (and couldn't possibly) complete all the objectives in that event.  Different situation entirely, just wanted to share ;)

    Nah, the worst one was the 300 health Angel in the Kaladesh event whose ability gave 30 life and whose deck was only made up of flying vigilance creatures
    Sure, but that wasn't a coalition event where your points matter.  You could completely skip attempting that objective and be just fine.

    Uhh, yes that was a coalition event when it first came out (pretty much all new events are/were coalition events).

    Now when it is re-run it is not coalition, true, but back in the day it was really really hated.  Only the most broken loop decks even had a chance (this was pre-cycling as well)
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  • Mburn7
    Mburn7 Posts: 3,427 Chairperson of the Boards
    Teysa said:
    Mburn7 said:
    Gabrosin said:
    Mburn7 said:
    FindingHeart8 said:
    Gabrosin said:
    Rhasget said:
    bken1234 said:
    Mburn7 said:
    Why 4.1?  That's Mavren.  Only real issue is the chance that he nukes his own creatures sometimes, and that doesn't happen incredibly often.

    5.1 is definitely an annoying node because of the life objective, that is really the only thing that should be changed.
    Actually both of them for nuking their own creatures. 
    How do 5.1 kill his own creatures? I have never seen that.
    I don't remember failing that objective ever

    I wrote my approach to it in your thread about BoFT also.
    Golden Guardian (the card) makes an activated node that eats its own creatures.

    Speed secondaries always suck and I'd be happy to see them removed from the game entirely.  The speed secondary on the Gateway is probably the worst offender.

    Definitely the worst offender in standard (or in the past couple of years), I agree.

    I think the Demon Prince in Avacyn's Madness had a "win in 6 turns" or something, at he had like 300+ life.  That might be the worst offender ever, merely because you had to have the most broken cards and combos at the time to event have a chance at it, then have the luck to draw the right cards, then have the luck to match enough mana to play the combo.  It was practically impossible, but no one cared because you didn't need to (and couldn't possibly) complete all the objectives in that event.  Different situation entirely, just wanted to share ;)

    Nah, the worst one was the 300 health Angel in the Kaladesh event whose ability gave 30 life and whose deck was only made up of flying vigilance creatures
    Sure, but that wasn't a coalition event where your points matter.  You could completely skip attempting that objective and be just fine.

    Uhh, yes that was a coalition event when it first came out (pretty much all new events are/were coalition events).

    Now when it is re-run it is not coalition, true, but back in the day it was really really hated.  Only the most broken loop decks even had a chance (this was pre-cycling as well)
    When they first made it the objective was to kill your 400hp opponent in 3 turns. The devs even came onto the forums to defend it ^_^
    I remember.  that was the funniest thing I've ever seen here.  They said "well, in testing we could do it, so what's the problem again?"
  • Matthew
    Matthew Posts: 605 Critical Contributor
    I don't understand the heartburn here, unless you simply don't have the cards and/or planeswalkers (because really there are only a few I'd use) to construct a decent deck.

    It's really all in how you build for the match.
  • FindingHeart8
    FindingHeart8 Posts: 2,734 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited September 2018
    Matthew said:
    I don't understand the heartburn here, unless you simply don't have the cards and/or planeswalkers (because really there are only a few I'd use) to construct a decent deck.

    It's really all in how you build for the match.
    Maybe this will help you understand:  If memory serves, you were fairly vocal in the past about your dislike for cycling/StV/Original-Baral, because of the overpowered setup in favor of the player.  This is the closest setup we've ever had in mtgpq to the opponent having these abilities.

    Creatures have always been (and still are) the most prominent way to win in mtgpq.  With the creature-in-battlefield-cap still at 3, and an AI with a deck that's 40% creature removal (1-spell that can still hit hexproof), it's slow at best to win (at all) with a creature deck.  Add in the cascade issue and an instant-kill button that's a planeswalker ability, and it's cycling 2.0 for the AI.
  • NinjaE
    NinjaE Posts: 213 Tile Toppler
    Doesn't immortal sun, which everyone should have, solve most of the problem here? That's how I got through it....
  • FindingHeart8
    FindingHeart8 Posts: 2,734 Chairperson of the Boards
    NinjaE said:
    Doesn't immortal sun, which everyone should have, solve most of the problem here? That's how I got through it....
    Newer players won't have it, or players that aren't in a consistently active coalition.

    While I think it's great to promote the pursuit of active coalitions, this boss node is basically a road block for anyone on the outside.

    Also, I don't know about you, but I never seem to draw Immortal Sun when it's in one of my decks, and when I do...the AI cascades like 20 times and hey--there go all my 3-shield supports and I'm taking 999 damage to the face.
  • Gun Bunny
    Gun Bunny Posts: 233 Tile Toppler
    Teysa said:
    Gun Bunny said:
    Now? Torgaar cannon
    It's an appalling grind, tho, isn't it?
    So was Tezz2 cycling against Uncage the Menagerie in RotGP.
  • babar3355
    babar3355 Posts: 1,128 Chairperson of the Boards
    I think they should bring back the infinite damage floodwaters bug.  That's the perfect solution to 5.2 =)

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