jackstar0 said: Borstock said: veny said: Borstock said: veny said: Bowgentle said: Magic said: I sense that this will also mean the nerf to Gambit as he can plow through non-gambit 20 points team with ease on the way to 40-75 wins. Anyone running Gambit will run out of non-Gambit teams after 8 wins.Which is why we complained about the number of wins - 5* players see nothing but other champed 5s from 0 points, so to grind out 40 wins against those teams was madness. I literally never won against maxed 5* Gambit no matter what team i used. I have champed 5* OML and Phoenix and then only champed 4*s so its not surprising, but advices like "sell them" or "get Gambit too" are useless, since PvP is broken after you enter 5* land. Why? Because fighting against 5*s requires either many 5*s (which normal player dont and cant have) or tons of heals.75 wins during 3 days is way too much and for lower tiers (up to 575 points) we dont even need win-based system. Why is "sell them" useless? You don't stay in 5* land. You'd fall back into 4's. I can totally understand not wanting to, but it isn't useless. It has a use. Yeah, i can sell 5*s and uninstall the game... why play it if there is nothing more to collect, all 4*s i already champed.If i need to sell 5*s to enjoy PvP, there is something wrong with this feature. You can still collect 5*s though and just not champ them. This is true, but they're not wrong to be frustrated that having the "wrong" 5*s that you've put resources into doesn't net you viable play in the 5* game. Sure there's always going to be a "best" and "worst" of each tier, but the delta between them shouldn't be Gambit to Banner/Ock. That's the absurdity that the "nerf Gambit" crowd has been trying to fight since the first "nerf" of Gambit (which I think we've seen was actually a buff).
Borstock said: veny said: Borstock said: veny said: Bowgentle said: Magic said: I sense that this will also mean the nerf to Gambit as he can plow through non-gambit 20 points team with ease on the way to 40-75 wins. Anyone running Gambit will run out of non-Gambit teams after 8 wins.Which is why we complained about the number of wins - 5* players see nothing but other champed 5s from 0 points, so to grind out 40 wins against those teams was madness. I literally never won against maxed 5* Gambit no matter what team i used. I have champed 5* OML and Phoenix and then only champed 4*s so its not surprising, but advices like "sell them" or "get Gambit too" are useless, since PvP is broken after you enter 5* land. Why? Because fighting against 5*s requires either many 5*s (which normal player dont and cant have) or tons of heals.75 wins during 3 days is way too much and for lower tiers (up to 575 points) we dont even need win-based system. Why is "sell them" useless? You don't stay in 5* land. You'd fall back into 4's. I can totally understand not wanting to, but it isn't useless. It has a use. Yeah, i can sell 5*s and uninstall the game... why play it if there is nothing more to collect, all 4*s i already champed.If i need to sell 5*s to enjoy PvP, there is something wrong with this feature. You can still collect 5*s though and just not champ them.
veny said: Borstock said: veny said: Bowgentle said: Magic said: I sense that this will also mean the nerf to Gambit as he can plow through non-gambit 20 points team with ease on the way to 40-75 wins. Anyone running Gambit will run out of non-Gambit teams after 8 wins.Which is why we complained about the number of wins - 5* players see nothing but other champed 5s from 0 points, so to grind out 40 wins against those teams was madness. I literally never won against maxed 5* Gambit no matter what team i used. I have champed 5* OML and Phoenix and then only champed 4*s so its not surprising, but advices like "sell them" or "get Gambit too" are useless, since PvP is broken after you enter 5* land. Why? Because fighting against 5*s requires either many 5*s (which normal player dont and cant have) or tons of heals.75 wins during 3 days is way too much and for lower tiers (up to 575 points) we dont even need win-based system. Why is "sell them" useless? You don't stay in 5* land. You'd fall back into 4's. I can totally understand not wanting to, but it isn't useless. It has a use. Yeah, i can sell 5*s and uninstall the game... why play it if there is nothing more to collect, all 4*s i already champed.If i need to sell 5*s to enjoy PvP, there is something wrong with this feature.
Borstock said: veny said: Bowgentle said: Magic said: I sense that this will also mean the nerf to Gambit as he can plow through non-gambit 20 points team with ease on the way to 40-75 wins. Anyone running Gambit will run out of non-Gambit teams after 8 wins.Which is why we complained about the number of wins - 5* players see nothing but other champed 5s from 0 points, so to grind out 40 wins against those teams was madness. I literally never won against maxed 5* Gambit no matter what team i used. I have champed 5* OML and Phoenix and then only champed 4*s so its not surprising, but advices like "sell them" or "get Gambit too" are useless, since PvP is broken after you enter 5* land. Why? Because fighting against 5*s requires either many 5*s (which normal player dont and cant have) or tons of heals.75 wins during 3 days is way too much and for lower tiers (up to 575 points) we dont even need win-based system. Why is "sell them" useless? You don't stay in 5* land. You'd fall back into 4's. I can totally understand not wanting to, but it isn't useless. It has a use.
veny said: Bowgentle said: Magic said: I sense that this will also mean the nerf to Gambit as he can plow through non-gambit 20 points team with ease on the way to 40-75 wins. Anyone running Gambit will run out of non-Gambit teams after 8 wins.Which is why we complained about the number of wins - 5* players see nothing but other champed 5s from 0 points, so to grind out 40 wins against those teams was madness. I literally never won against maxed 5* Gambit no matter what team i used. I have champed 5* OML and Phoenix and then only champed 4*s so its not surprising, but advices like "sell them" or "get Gambit too" are useless, since PvP is broken after you enter 5* land. Why? Because fighting against 5*s requires either many 5*s (which normal player dont and cant have) or tons of heals.75 wins during 3 days is way too much and for lower tiers (up to 575 points) we dont even need win-based system.
Bowgentle said: Magic said: I sense that this will also mean the nerf to Gambit as he can plow through non-gambit 20 points team with ease on the way to 40-75 wins. Anyone running Gambit will run out of non-Gambit teams after 8 wins.Which is why we complained about the number of wins - 5* players see nothing but other champed 5s from 0 points, so to grind out 40 wins against those teams was madness.
Magic said: I sense that this will also mean the nerf to Gambit as he can plow through non-gambit 20 points team with ease on the way to 40-75 wins.
Brigby said: LifeofAgony said: Kudos for giving participation trophies? There is already a mechanic in game (pve) that allows you to get the big time rewards without having to truly compete.Did pvp really need the same treatment? The intention of this hybrid system is to allow a greater number of players the opportunity to experience Versus Tournaments, while still allowing the veterans to take advantage of their optimized play-style. We understand that one of the biggest concerns with the old Wins-Based system was that it came at the expense of the veteran experience, and so this hybrid system is designed to avoid that.TL;DR: You do you, and they'll do them. Everyone's happy!
LifeofAgony said: Kudos for giving participation trophies? There is already a mechanic in game (pve) that allows you to get the big time rewards without having to truly compete.Did pvp really need the same treatment?
OJSP said: HoundofShadow said: If you can't achieve it with skill, you make it up with effort or hard work. It’s a good attitude in life and people are free to do whatever they want with their time. I just hope players don’t feel obliged to chase those 75 wins every event and get burned out.
HoundofShadow said: If you can't achieve it with skill, you make it up with effort or hard work.
The rockett said: OJSP said: HoundofShadow said: If you can't achieve it with skill, you make it up with effort or hard work. It’s a good attitude in life and people are free to do whatever they want with their time. I just hope players don’t feel obliged to chase those 75 wins every event and get burned out. They won’t. Not for a 10 event grind of a season. In my Win based threads and data collection, even the people got win based gave up the 40 wins. They said it was too much for the 4* cover. So I would expect 75 wins be the same way but it is there.
Bowgentle said: The rockett said: OJSP said: HoundofShadow said: If you can't achieve it with skill, you make it up with effort or hard work. It’s a good attitude in life and people are free to do whatever they want with their time. I just hope players don’t feel obliged to chase those 75 wins every event and get burned out. They won’t. Not for a 10 event grind of a season. In my Win based threads and data collection, even the people got win based gave up the 40 wins. They said it was too much for the 4* cover. So I would expect 75 wins be the same way but it is there. People will try for a couple of pvps, trying to put bad teams on defense.Then realize they have no idea how to manipulate MMR and give up.75 wins is INSANE, I'm glad it doesn't apply to us.
OJSP said: HoundofShadow said: After factoring in defensive loss at the higher range of PvP without any shielding, I guess it averages out to 16 points per win for those with trouble reaching 1200. It's a fair system. Except MMR would make it harder for some people than others to grind 75 wins and not in a sensible way. I think 1* and 2* players will grind 75 wins faster than 4* or 5* players. Not only that, players who grind that many matches would be burned out pretty quick. Even if we assume an average of 3 minutes per match, that is almost 4 hours worth of matches to play. Even if we spread it to 2 1/2 days, that’s more than an hour per day.
HoundofShadow said: After factoring in defensive loss at the higher range of PvP without any shielding, I guess it averages out to 16 points per win for those with trouble reaching 1200. It's a fair system.
OJSP said: Phumade said: I'm not so sure about your assessment on mmr.4*/5* rosters will almost inevitably get to 1200 long before 75 wins and or their last 30 wins will come when the 3*/4* rosters have climbed to 700. --- The most likely outcomes are either they can get to 1200 in less than 20 wins or they purposely don't shield/ float and can churn their 75 wins against easier rosters, but at the expense of waiting for float points to rise.If your a lower tier roster, knowing the float ranges of the various tiers makes getting to 75 wins pretty trivial. Yes, I agree that those who are able to get 1200 probably won’t have a problem. However, not every player knows this though. I can see some players struggling to climb against similar teams and decide just to slog through these matches 75 times. The effects of floaters, players hitting each other with small teams and probable increase in player participation are still unclear, because there is less incentive to get t10 for the CPs now compared to our previous win based system. It could actually make it harder to break MMR.1* or 2* players slogging through 1* or 2* teams will go through their matches faster than 3* or 4* players facing similar tier opponents. The worst affected players would be the 4*-5* transitioners actually, if they want to get that 75 wins.I’m gladly to be proven wrong. If this change means more targets to hit instead of the same players I usually queue, than I have no problem with that. However, if this puts off players from trying or makes them float low with small teams and hit each other for 75 wins, then it’s not a particularly good change. It’s great for players who could do this, but not so much for everyone else.I guess we’ll have to wait and see.
Phumade said: I'm not so sure about your assessment on mmr.4*/5* rosters will almost inevitably get to 1200 long before 75 wins and or their last 30 wins will come when the 3*/4* rosters have climbed to 700. --- The most likely outcomes are either they can get to 1200 in less than 20 wins or they purposely don't shield/ float and can churn their 75 wins against easier rosters, but at the expense of waiting for float points to rise.If your a lower tier roster, knowing the float ranges of the various tiers makes getting to 75 wins pretty trivial.
Spudgutter said:curious as well. if i were giving advice to 1* and 2* players, i wouldn't even tell them to go for the 40, let alone the 75. my perception of the change is that people at lower tiers will be able to get 1 or 2 rewards higher then they normally would. someone who only goes for 300 right now might find the climb to 575 not as bad, with minimal extra effort. same for someone who could easily hit 575, getting 800 might not be so bad.
Daredevil217 said: Alliance mate informed me that when you hit the point thresholds, it automatically bumps your wins up accordingly. Can anyone confirm if this is true? If so, it’s pretty huge. I can get to 900 in one push. If that automatically bumps me to 40 wins, 35 more for the CP is doable.
iron-n-wine said: Daredevil217 said: Alliance mate informed me that when you hit the point thresholds, it automatically bumps your wins up accordingly. Can anyone confirm if this is true? If so, it’s pretty huge. I can get to 900 in one push. If that automatically bumps me to 40 wins, 35 more for the CP is doable. wow that sounds very cool if true