LavaManLee said: She's very underwhelming, even as a support character. Unless she's required, I am not sure when I would use her over any of the "newer" support characters: Jubilee, Valkyrie, Shuri, Rogue, Mockingbird all make better support characters. Just not sure what the intent was of her other then Marvel wanted her so they quickly came up with something without much thought.
darkwatcherDEZ said: Shintok17 said: I learned the hard way in the loaner node in the Shield Training that by herself she is horrible, but as a support character she's not bad. Got stuck on a stalemate with Daken with only Widow alive and had to retreat and try it again since I spent half and hour trying to get his health down only for him to heal again. I had full health the whole time because of the Yellow power and Invisibility, but her powers were too weak to win. Her powers don't cause too much damage. Her invisibility is good, but against healers you can't just stay invisible. @ Shintok17 - No retreat no surrender...If you find yourself in a similar situation with Daken in the future, choke him out by matching all blue.
Shintok17 said: I learned the hard way in the loaner node in the Shield Training that by herself she is horrible, but as a support character she's not bad. Got stuck on a stalemate with Daken with only Widow alive and had to retreat and try it again since I spent half and hour trying to get his health down only for him to heal again. I had full health the whole time because of the Yellow power and Invisibility, but her powers were too weak to win. Her powers don't cause too much damage. Her invisibility is good, but against healers you can't just stay invisible.
DarthDeVo said: LavaManLee said: She's very underwhelming, even as a support character. Unless she's required, I am not sure when I would use her over any of the "newer" support characters: Jubilee, Valkyrie, Shuri, Rogue, Mockingbird all make better support characters. Just not sure what the intent was of her other then Marvel wanted her so they quickly came up with something without much thought. Yep, played the initial node in Shield Training last night. If it wasn't for her health pool, I'd think she was a 2*. Maybe a 3*, with the invisibility. She could really use a nuke to help her stand on her own offensively. As it is the most damage she can do on her own at 270 with five covers in black is less than 1500. That's incredibly weak.
Shintok17 said: ... Most of these newer 4*'s don't stand a chance in 1 Vs 1 battles. Specially with a low amount of covers.
Yepyep said: Shintok17 said: ... Most of these newer 4*'s don't stand a chance in 1 Vs 1 battles. Specially with a low amount of covers. This is a really interesting, provocative comment and worthy of a separate thread of discussion. Would you care to take the time to start one and expand on your thoughts? A lot could come from it, I think.
Punisher5784 said: Her purple needs to be a nuke.. after invisibility she destroys special tiles then what? Become a target and die.. yeah great design. Even 4* Spidey has a strong nuke after coming out of Invisibility. She should at least deal a specific amount of damage for each special tile destroyed
Her purple needs to be a nuke.. after invisibility she destroys special tiles then what? Become a target and die.. yeah great design. Even 4* Spidey has a strong nuke after coming out of Invisibility. She should at least deal a specific amount of damage for each special tile destroyed
Waddles_Pines said: Punisher5784 said: Her purple needs to be a nuke.. after invisibility she destroys special tiles then what? Become a target and die.. yeah great design. Even 4* Spidey has a strong nuke after coming out of Invisibility. She should at least deal a specific amount of damage for each special tile destroyed I feel your pain. I left the animations on just to see what they came up with, and finally had enough purple to do the alt power. Then I saw like 400 damage, and I literally cursed out loud.
Shintok17 said: Yepyep said: Shintok17 said: ... Most of these newer 4*'s don't stand a chance in 1 Vs 1 battles. Specially with a low amount of covers. This is a really interesting, provocative comment and worthy of a separate thread of discussion. Would you care to take the time to start one and expand on your thoughts? A lot could come from it, I think. Most of them are good for support, but that's it. Look at Kraven. He is only good for lowering the damage on special tiles. So if the enemy does not really have them then he is just there for decoration. America's powers are all passives, but her Green is beast once you get it going. That also makes you not want to waste AP on other teammate's powers, which kind of sucks. This also makes the bottom row of Shield Training very hard when you only get 1 or 2 covers of the new 4* character. you have to rely on match damage.
Yepyep said: Shintok17 said: Yepyep said: Shintok17 said: ... Most of these newer 4*'s don't stand a chance in 1 Vs 1 battles. Specially with a low amount of covers. This is a really interesting, provocative comment and worthy of a separate thread of discussion. Would you care to take the time to start one and expand on your thoughts? A lot could come from it, I think. Most of them are good for support, but that's it. Look at Kraven. He is only good for lowering the damage on special tiles. So if the enemy does not really have them then he is just there for decoration. America's powers are all passives, but her Green is beast once you get it going. That also makes you not want to waste AP on other teammate's powers, which kind of sucks. This also makes the bottom row of Shield Training very hard when you only get 1 or 2 covers of the new 4* character. you have to rely on match damage. Re America, it's important to point out that her red passive influences her own match damage, so it has direct results while operating passively.As far as other recent characters, I know what you are saying about Shield Training -- it was awful for Jubilee (any awful character, really), for example. But not so awful for Valkyrie.
Shintok17 said: darkwatcherDEZ said: Shintok17 said: I learned the hard way in the loaner node in the Shield Training that by herself she is horrible, but as a support character she's not bad. Got stuck on a stalemate with Daken with only Widow alive and had to retreat and try it again since I spent half and hour trying to get his health down only for him to heal again. I had full health the whole time because of the Yellow power and Invisibility, but her powers were too weak to win. Her powers don't cause too much damage. Her invisibility is good, but against healers you can't just stay invisible. @ Shintok17 - No retreat no surrender...If you find yourself in a similar situation with Daken in the future, choke him out by matching all blue. I tried, but the blues kept coming and Widow's powers are so weak damage wise. Never felt so angry in this game since I had to quit after so long with my full health in tact. Anyways I got it done the next round. Most of these newer 4*'s don't stand a chance in 1 Vs 1 battles. Specially with a low amount of covers.
mega ghost said: I don't have her rostered yet and I won't truly know her utility until she's champed, but I think everyone is coming down on her too hard. Is she a game-changer? No. Does she have any offensive ability? No. But how often do we find ourselves making teams of two characters with synergy with a much less meaningful third wheel? It happens to me a lot. Replace that third with 4* Black Widow and you just might have a solid support character. She won't end the match, but she can reliably cut the enemy off at the knees with her stun and AP destruction (passively delivered with her stun or anyone else's stun), and her yellow is not something to take lightly. Her purple is crummy, at best it's a Hail Mary move to keep you in the match, otherwise I'd use most other purple abilities over hers.
Yepyep said: mega ghost said: I don't have her rostered yet and I won't truly know her utility until she's champed, but I think everyone is coming down on her too hard. Is she a game-changer? No. Does she have any offensive ability? No. But how often do we find ourselves making teams of two characters with synergy with a much less meaningful third wheel? It happens to me a lot. Replace that third with 4* Black Widow and you just might have a solid support character. She won't end the match, but she can reliably cut the enemy off at the knees with her stun and AP destruction (passively delivered with her stun or anyone else's stun), and her yellow is not something to take lightly. Her purple is crummy, at best it's a Hail Mary move to keep you in the match, otherwise I'd use most other purple abilities over hers. Yes. See, for example, Wasp. This is exactly how a support character should be, and Black Widow is a reliable support in other incarnations (though I'm not qualified to speak about 5* and her 3* can play a minor lead role). I have no problem with a well-implemented support character, personally. My real worry is: plenty of supports (and Supports) require tweaks post-release. Forward-facing business goals are easier to justify, because new revenue is usually the primary drive behind the origination process of a new feature. Reparative and maintenance goals are harder to justify, because new revenue is usually not part of the goal origination, or any subsequent, process.So:1. Are there (still) teams in place authorized to (a) gather and courrier player feedback identifying a need and (b) shepherd a buff/nerf up into the necessary upstream (managemen-relatedt) AND back down into the downstream (player population-related) processes?2. Within current management, are there business processes capable of (a) pricing the identified changes, (b) triggering required authorization, and (c) locating resources to (i) plan and (ii) execute all related technical demands?Lately we have seen only new stuff. Not fixes and rebalancings. Stagnation and desperate grabbing, MORE features, MORE characters. MORE, not better.Not making a better game, making a flashier game.
mega ghost said: Yepyep said: mega ghost said: I don't have her rostered yet and I won't truly know her utility until she's champed, but I think everyone is coming down on her too hard. Is she a game-changer? No. Does she have any offensive ability? No. But how often do we find ourselves making teams of two characters with synergy with a much less meaningful third wheel? It happens to me a lot. Replace that third with 4* Black Widow and you just might have a solid support character. She won't end the match, but she can reliably cut the enemy off at the knees with her stun and AP destruction (passively delivered with her stun or anyone else's stun), and her yellow is not something to take lightly. Her purple is crummy, at best it's a Hail Mary move to keep you in the match, otherwise I'd use most other purple abilities over hers. Yes. See, for example, Wasp. This is exactly how a support character should be, and Black Widow is a reliable support in other incarnations (though I'm not qualified to speak about 5* and her 3* can play a minor lead role). I have no problem with a well-implemented support character, personally. My real worry is: plenty of supports (and Supports) require tweaks post-release. Forward-facing business goals are easier to justify, because new revenue is usually the primary drive behind the origination process of a new feature. Reparative and maintenance goals are harder to justify, because new revenue is usually not part of the goal origination, or any subsequent, process.So:1. Are there (still) teams in place authorized to (a) gather and courrier player feedback identifying a need and (b) shepherd a buff/nerf up into the necessary upstream (managemen-relatedt) AND back down into the downstream (player population-related) processes?2. Within current management, are there business processes capable of (a) pricing the identified changes, (b) triggering required authorization, and (c) locating resources to (i) plan and (ii) execute all related technical demands?Lately we have seen only new stuff. Not fixes and rebalancings. Stagnation and desperate grabbing, MORE features, MORE characters. MORE, not better.Not making a better game, making a flashier game. These are all reasonable concerns. Are your worries specifically related to reported info or inside knowledge, though? i.e. Staff changes or attrition? As far as I understood it, the only reason we haven't seen rebalances as of late is because the team was preoccupied with the Supports feature, and now that they are launched rebalances will once again be on the schedule / agenda. And I will say, while I think they are being implemented terribly and there are some simple and obvious UI fixes needed, the new Supports feature has been notably lacking in bugs, at least compared to what we're used to with this game. I feel like the theme of 2017 was any one change, even a new character ability, would bring at least two bugs. Supports seem like they were very well QA'd, at the very least.