Now I remember why

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abmoraz
abmoraz Posts: 712 Critical Contributor
edited April 2018 in MPQ General Discussion
I quit PvP over a year ago (I became a "575 and out" player).  Reading the forums lately and seeing the "is 900 the new 575" I decided to give it another try.

Step 1: get to ~800 on a single run and shield.
Step 2: Comeback about an hour before the end of the slice (next time i could conceivably play due to work)
Step 3: pay my skip tax to get 2x 75 point teams lined up
Step 4: Wait 20 minutes to be fair to them in case they are going to shield
Step 5: break my shield and beat the first team
Step 6: quickly attack the second team and win
Step 7: finish the second battle and get a notification that I was hit 3 times and lost 98 points. (grand total of shield down time: 6m30s)
Step 8: Sigh and shield again figuring "winning 50 points is better than nothing"
Step 9: back out to the main screen, go into my tokens, cash them out (I'm not a hoarder), go into my roster, champ/sell/etc... the guys on the vine
Step 10: back out and get notified that I lost another 212 points from attacks that were in progress at the moment I shielded.

Net gain from shield hopping: -160 points

Guess I'm staying a "575 and out" player.  There's no incentive to do more.

/irony: I got 3 more "you were attacked and lost 0 points" messages while typing this up.


Comments

  • randomhero1090
    randomhero1090 Posts: 396 Mover and Shaker
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    Got slammed this PVP.  A boosted strange turns most teams into god squads.  Add boosted patch and you don’t need health packs much. 
  • CharlieCroker
    CharlieCroker Posts: 254 Mover and Shaker
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    You missed Step 8a - go into PvP leaderboard to make sure everything is refreshed and your Shield is active immediately.  May of helped, may just have given you the bad news straight away (love seeing my score drop 200pts doing that :-))

    But if that happened on a 6.5m hop it's indicative of 2 things.  One, that according to your footer you don't have Gambit so you'll be an easier target for everyone (regardless of whether they have him or not).  Two, you may have been in a shard where scores were low or yet to climb and hence being an even bigger target (although the fact you had 75pt matches queued makes this less likely - unless it was just a quiet time in an otherwise busy shard).
  • Waddles_Pines
    Waddles_Pines Posts: 1,194 Chairperson of the Boards
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    abmoraz said:
    I quit PvP over a year ago (I became a "575 and out" player).  Reading the forums lately and seeing the "is 900 the new 575" I decided to give it another try.

    Step 1: get to ~800 on a single run and shield.
    Step 2: Comeback about an hour before the end of the slice (next time i could conceivably play due to work)
    Step 3: pay my skip tax to get 2x 75 point teams lined up
    Step 4: Wait 20 minutes to be fair to them in case they are going to shield
    Step 5: break my shield and beat the first team
    Step 6: quickly attack the second team and win
    Step 7: finish the second battle and get a notification that I was hit 3 times and lost 98 points. (grand total of shield down time: 6m30s)
    Step 8: Sigh and shield again figuring "winning 50 points is better than nothing"
    Step 9: back out to the main screen, go into my tokens, cash them out (I'm not a hoarder), go into my roster, champ/sell/etc... the guys on the vine
    Step 10: back out and get notified that I lost another 212 points from attacks that were in progress at the moment I shielded.

    Net gain from shield hopping: -160 points

    Guess I'm staying a "575 and out" player.  There's no incentive to do more.

    /irony: I got 3 more "you were attacked and lost 0 points" messages while typing this up.


    Step 3, I've never seen 75 point teams (even in the beginning of my run).  I play at different slices depending on life.  In order to get those 75 pt nodes, do I have to start right at the beginning of the event?  Everytime I get near 800, I wind up with nodes 30 pts or less, then get hammered by Gambolt... The event before Doc Strange was even worse, I managed to get around 900 and then all nodes were single digit.  I'm a strict 4* player... I'm usually a 575 and done, but once in a while I like to take the plunge like the OP and then I'm reminded why 575 is the line of demarcation when it comes to sanity vs. aggravation <end old man rant>
  • abmoraz
    abmoraz Posts: 712 Critical Contributor
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    Waddles_Pines said:
    Step 3, I've never seen 75 point teams (even in the beginning of my run).  I play at different slices depending on life.  In order to get those 75 pt nodes, do I have to start right at the beginning of the event?  Everytime I get near 800, I wind up with nodes 30 pts or less, then get hammered by Gambolt... The event before Doc Strange was even worse, I managed to get around 900 and then all nodes were single digit.  I'm a strict 4* player... I'm usually a 575 and done, but once in a while I like to take the plunge like the OP and then I'm reminded why 575 is the line of demarcation when it comes to sanity vs. aggravation <end old man rant>
    I see them more regularly in the Season SImulator, but they are more common in the last 3 hours of an event, and even then, it usually takes a lot of skips to find them.

    I see 60-70ish point teams fairly regularly, but 75s are pretty rare, as you said.  Like I said in my OP, I generally have been a "575 and out" player for the last year.  I just skip until I find something worth 60+ points, beat that, then repeat.  10 wins is all I need to get to the CP and is usually 30-45 minutes of my time. (spent on my lunch break for the event that ends on Wednesday or done before bed on the other 2)

    My goto team has been 5* hawkeye (Level 435, 5-4-3) and 5* Gambit (Level 420, 4-2-5) as they feed each other pretty well and by turn 6 or 7 can kill even max-champed level 550s in one turn by chaining their powers together.   I can usually get to 575 before running out of health packs and then, it doesn't matter to me.  Placements rewards aren't worth the money and the rest of the progression rewards aren't worth the frustration.

  • Waddles_Pines
    Waddles_Pines Posts: 1,194 Chairperson of the Boards
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    abmoraz:
    How many skips is "a lot"?  Whenever I start out and highest I'm seeing is maybe 50ish points.  Then I get to the point where every team is 30s or less, and when I skip ad naseum, I wind up seeing the same 3-5 teams.  Ugh...
  • abmoraz
    abmoraz Posts: 712 Critical Contributor
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    Waddles_Pines said:
    abmoraz:
    How many skips is "a lot"?  Whenever I start out and highest I'm seeing is maybe 50ish points.  Then I get to the point where every team is 30s or less, and when I skip ad naseum, I wind up seeing the same 3-5 teams.  Ugh...
    I can usually find one within 15-20 skips, but as I said before, I usually stop as soon as I find any team 60+, so I can't say for sure.   I got lucky and the first skip I did was a 75 today.  The second one took me ~20 skips to find, and was the first one over 60 I found during that skip-fest.  So getting 2x 75pt teams today was definitely more of an anomaly than a commonality.

    Also, it could be the slice/times that I play.  Slice 5 is the only one that really fits my schedule and I generally (today being an exception)  only play in the last 2 hours of the slice.

    As far as 75pt teams go, I see them all the time in the Season Simulator.  There, I just let them sit on the vine and skip other nodes.  I play until they drop to 74 or 73 points, then hit them.  In the long run (seeing as the simulator goes almost 4x more (575 vs 2000)) this maximizes point values more and reduces the total number of battles I need to play.
  • BoyWonder1914
    BoyWonder1914 Posts: 884 Critical Contributor
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    abmoraz said:
    I quit PvP over a year ago (I became a "575 and out" player).  Reading the forums lately and seeing the "is 900 the new 575" I decided to give it another try.

    Step 1: get to ~800 on a single run and shield.
    Step 2: Comeback about an hour before the end of the slice (next time i could conceivably play due to work)
    Step 3: pay my skip tax to get 2x 75 point teams lined up
    Step 4: Wait 20 minutes to be fair to them in case they are going to shield
    Step 5: break my shield and beat the first team
    Step 6: quickly attack the second team and win
    Step 7: finish the second battle and get a notification that I was hit 3 times and lost 98 points. (grand total of shield down time: 6m30s)
    Step 8: Sigh and shield again figuring "winning 50 points is better than nothing"
    Step 9: back out to the main screen, go into my tokens, cash them out (I'm not a hoarder), go into my roster, champ/sell/etc... the guys on the vine
    Step 10: back out and get notified that I lost another 212 points from attacks that were in progress at the moment I shielded.

    Net gain from shield hopping: -160 points

    Guess I'm staying a "575 and out" player.  There's no incentive to do more.

    /irony: I got 3 more "you were attacked and lost 0 points" messages while typing this up.


    Step 6 is the only thing you did wrong bro. When you're inside of 8 hours left, double hops (playing 2 matches after breaking shield) is almost asking to be eaten alive no matter what level of the game you play at. Like Aes laid out, you have all the procrastinators like me who hate PVP and literally only play in the last few hours for the sake of my alliance, the 5-star guys that hit anything moving, and the opportunists who want to catch super late brackets for the hope of an easy Top 5. It costs you an extra shield to single hop the rest of the way though, as well as the potential necessity to have to break at end, so I understand if that's a concern. That was one of main cases people made in the points-based vs win-based debate, and I certainly agree on the annoyance of that cost. 

    I jumped in Slice 5 of Strange this morning on my way to work, with 5 and half hours left. I made it to 834 in one rush, threw up a 3-hour shield. A couple of hours later, I searched some queues and found a 44 point (was 46 when I found it) that took me up to 878. 8-hour shield. About 45 minutes ago, I started searching queues again and found one for 46 (was 43 when I found it) that took me up to 924. 24-hour shield and done with it. So 525 HP overall for being a procrastinator, instead of starting earlier and just flipping back and forth between 75 and 150 HP shields as needed. I earn enough HP to be ok with that, but your perspective may differ. In either case, the most important thing is that you know how quickly you can expect your team to win a match. Time is of the essence once you get above 700, but ESPECIALLY when you get above 800. When you're at that point of pretty much only facing the boosted flavor of the week, it's highly unlikely you can squeeze in two matches against that calibur of opponent without someone else lining you up. Perhaps you play the 5-star game and that's not usually an issue for you to chew through 4-star teams, I unfortunately can't speak to that level of play. 
  • Basepuzzler
    Basepuzzler Posts: 180 Tile Toppler
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    Pick a different slice and use a 24 hour shield.  Probably slice 1.  It will make your climb and hop easier.
  • Phumade
    Phumade Posts: 2,477 Chairperson of the Boards
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    bad timing on your hop.  in the last 3hrs of s5.  you realistically need double 5* champs that are decently leveled to play more than two matches.

    Most rosters that are under 500 are only able to do 2 maybe 3 matches in the last 3hrs of any shard.  Obviously the bigger your roster the more matches you can go before getting hit.  But even very good 460 Thorbit 5* teams can only do maybe 3 or 4 matches before getting hit by random zombies.

    there are more strategies to help you avoid hits.  but really it just boils down to know your shard and when similar rosters like to play.  With you paying attention to when the even bigger rosters go out.

    joining battle chats is really just getting more information to build a better mental picture of

    1.  What scores are active.
    2.  What types are rosters are active and what are their realistic queing ranges.

    but overall it was just bad luck going out in a really snipey time frame.

    6m is not considered a very fast hop,  but nor is it considered a slow hop.

    Inevitably you went out when there were bigger rosters out with less points.
  • jredd
    jredd Posts: 1,387 Chairperson of the Boards
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    my system: hover around 100th place until there's 8 hours left. go for 900 in one shot, usually from approx. 270-320 ish . 8 hour shield when finished.

    (disclaimer: probably only works if you have a champed gambit)
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
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    How did others get up to 2000 or 3000 points per PvP? How much HP do they spend on Shield?
  • jackstar0
    jackstar0 Posts: 1,280 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited April 2018
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    HoundofShadow said:
    How did others get up to 2000 or 3000 points per PvP? How much HP do they spend on Shield?
    This has a lot to do with coordination and gaming the system as it stands (rather than shield spending).
  • Quebbster
    Quebbster Posts: 8,070 Chairperson of the Boards
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    HoundofShadow said:
    How did others get up to 2000 or 3000 points per PvP? How much HP do they spend on Shield?


    You know how there are Three Shields available in an 8 hour period, for 3, 8, and 24 hours? Those at the very top of the scoreboard cycle through all those Shields as often as they can... so probably a few thousand HP per PvP.

    The more high scores there are the easier it is for scores to balloon though. It really requires dedicated people at the top of the scoreboard though, building up your score with at best 20 Points at a time (knowing you could get slammed for 75 Points whenever) is a bit tiring.

  • Dragon_Nexus
    Dragon_Nexus Posts: 3,701 Chairperson of the Boards
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    My tactic is simple these days.
    1) Get to about 300 points on the first day
    2) Try to remember to hit 500 on the second.
    3) With 24 hours to go, grind up to 900 or 1000 points then drop a 24 hour shield.

    And done. If I'm lucky my score will be good enough for a top 25 finish.
  • Steve111
    Steve111 Posts: 160 Tile Toppler
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    Pvp punishes players for playing

    but also pvp punishes players for winning.

    If you win consistently and shield, the next opponents are only worth 4 points a piece (even with skip tax). So you have to drop points (sometimes deliberately) to get worthy teams to beat. 

    In my opinion it’s a terrible game design and turns a great game into a torment. 
  • Michaelcles
    Michaelcles Posts: 100 Tile Toppler
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    Steve111 said:
    Pvp punishes players for playing

    In my opinion it’s a terrible game design and turns a great game into a torment. 
    I wholeheartedly agree 100%.

    It is designed to get players to spend limited resources, which are conveniently available for $.  It is not there to be enjoyed.
  • Dragon_Nexus
    Dragon_Nexus Posts: 3,701 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Michaelcles said:
    Steve111 said:
    Pvp punishes players for playing

    In my opinion it’s a terrible game design and turns a great game into a torment. 
    I wholeheartedly agree 100%.

    It is designed to get players to spend limited resources, which are conveniently available for $.  It is not there to be enjoyed.

    I think that depends entirely on what you're aiming for. This seems true if you want placement.

    I am happy bumping over 1000 and getting the progression rewards and then just letting placement be what it may. Only costs me 300HP, which I make back before the next PvP ends.

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