I've found myself looking forward to the new PVP system.

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  • Dormammu
    Dormammu Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    I get what you're saying @Dragon_Nexus but at what point does PvP turn into PvE? It can be frustrating to lose points, but that's the point. That's the struggle of PvP. If progression is guaranteed isn't that basically PvE against 'user created teams' rather than goons and Dark Avengers?

    If there is no fear of retaliation because players only play for progression, doesn't that take some of the thrill and meaning out of PvP events? Since that's already happening under the current system, it seems to me like a change just for change's sake and to make a broken system just a little more tolerable for everyone who isn't a 5-star player.

    Larger changes are needed before I start getting excited about PvP again.
  • Spudgutter
    Spudgutter Posts: 743 Critical Contributor
    Dormammu said:
    I get what you're saying @Dragon_Nexus but at what point does PvP turn into PvE? It can be frustrating to lose points, but that's the point. That's the struggle of PvP. If progression is guaranteed isn't that basically PvE against 'user created teams' rather than goons and Dark Avengers?

    If there is no fear of retaliation because players only play for progression, doesn't that take some of the thrill and meaning out of PvP events? Since that's already happening under the current system, it seems to me like a change just for change's sake and to make a broken system just a little more tolerable for everyone who isn't a 5-star player.

    Larger changes are needed before I start getting excited about PvP again.
    It was either this thread, or the other pvp thread going on right now, someone mentioned my problem with pvp. After just a few matches, EVERY opponent was two of the four boosted 4*, champed and paired with the required 3*.  Too many vets always try to compare the slog of story mode against the slog of versus mode.  At least in pve after four matches the opponents change.  

    That was one of the best things about the test, there were way more teams than a normal event. I also utilized different teams, because i was playing the game, instead of sitting behind a shield and spending my time (and money) on a different game.  I certainly don't blame them for trying to increase engagement in pvp.  I get that there is strategy, and all sorts of things that people with developed rosters enjoy, but if it was your company, and a lot of your customers avoided half of your product like the plague, wouldn't you try to change that?
  • Ducky
    Ducky Posts: 2,255 Community Moderator
    GrumpySmurf1002 said:
    Dragon_Nexus said:
    You are absolutely wrong about the PvE test. I can't recall all the details, but the first run had enemies gain much higher levels. Not to mention the refresh was different (I forget how) and they got rid of the three easy nodes, making all the nodes the same max difficulty, even the 2* node. So you ended up having a 2* loaner to fight level 350+ enemies.

    They tweaked the current PvE system a lot before we got to what we have now.
    No, not the old test, yes that one had 6 iterations.  The one they just implemented.

    They rolled out test 1.  It was easier than normal, they fixed that bug, ran it otherwise unchanged for the new release, and now implemented a week ago.  No other changes
    Except they lowered the scaling by 100 levels in SCL 8 and lowered it in other SCLs as well compared to the tests. But yea, no changes. :neutral:
  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited August 2017
    Just went from 634 in Starfall to 937 in 5 matches. 304/5=60.8 (did my math wrong 303/5=60.6) per match. How many wins were between the event token at 650 and the 4* at 900 in the win based system?

    (No coordination, no communication, just have experimented with my float points, shield points, climb times, and hop times on my own)

    Let's just call it Story+ too.......
  • Dragon_Nexus
    Dragon_Nexus Posts: 3,701 Chairperson of the Boards
    Milk Jugz said:
    Just went from 634 in Starfall to 937 in 5 matches. 304/5=60.8 per match. How many wins were between the event token at 650 and the 4* at 900 in the win based system?

    (No coordination, no communication, just have experimented with my float points, shield points, climb times, and hop times on my own)

    Let's just call it Story+ too.......
    Which slice are you in? And what time did you do that run? I sure as hell can't find an average of five 60+ point fights when I'm doing my final run. I'm lucky if I find a single one that isn't level 360+ 5*s
  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited August 2017
    Dragon_Nexus said:
    Milk Jugz said:
    Just went from 634 in Starfall to 937 in 5 matches. 304/5=60.8 per match. How many wins were between the event token at 650 and the 4* at 900 in the win based system?

    (No coordination, no communication, just have experimented with my float points, shield points, climb times, and hop times on my own)

    Let's just call it Story+ too.......
    Which slice are you in? And what time did you do that run? I sure as hell can't find an average of five 60+ point fights when I'm doing my final run. I'm lucky if I find a single one that isn't level 360+ 5*s
    I play s1 exclusively, just have experimented. I start late, float a little where it works, shield when I know I have to, climb a little late, but not too late. Always end on a 24 hr shield. The 3-9 hr time is a big no-no. Bigger fish in the sea then......
  • Pollozz
    Pollozz Posts: 82 Match Maker
    I am with the OP, I really enjoyed the pvp test and waiting for another one. I no longer do pvp beyond the 575 mark, too frustrating and unrewarding. I understand that u have to get attacked and lose points but those points you lose are really out of proportions most of the time.
  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited August 2017
    Dragon_Nexus said:
    Milk Jugz said:
    Just went from 634 in Starfall to 937 in 5 matches. 304/5=60.8 per match. How many wins were between the event token at 650 and the 4* at 900 in the win based system?

    (No coordination, no communication, just have experimented with my float points, shield points, climb times, and hop times on my own)

    Let's just call it Story+ too.......
    Which slice are you in? And what time did you do that run? I sure as hell can't find an average of five 60+ point fights when I'm doing my final run. I'm lucky if I find a single one that isn't level 360+ 5*s
    Boosted 4s should have zero problems with underleveled 5s, so just hit those?
    I mean, they have what, 30k health tops?
  • Alsmir
    Alsmir Posts: 508 Critical Contributor
    Dormammu said:
    I get what you're saying @Dragon_Nexus but at what point does PvP turn into PvE? It can be frustrating to lose points, but that's the point. That's the struggle of PvP. If progression is guaranteed isn't that basically PvE against 'user created teams' rather than goons and Dark Avengers?

    If there is no fear of retaliation because players only play for progression, doesn't that take some of the thrill and meaning out of PvP events? Since that's already happening under the current system, it seems to me like a change just for change's sake and to make a broken system just a little more tolerable for everyone who isn't a 5-star player.

    Larger changes are needed before I start getting excited about PvP again.
    Thrill? Where's that thril? Having just a few 4* champs (and rarely any boosted) means that my safe points to float are ~300. I've tried sitting at 400 but everytime I was clubbed back to 300 at the end of an event. Above 575 points all I'm seeing are double boosted 4* champ teams. I might as well be banging my head at the wall.

    Before getting most 3* champed I couldn't even get to 575. That's the thrill? Sure I'm looking forward to having most 4* champs, so I can eventually think about reaching 900 points, but it will take me like what? Another year or so? So that puts me at 2,5 years of getiing clubbed by vet rosters, before I can actually enjoy PvP? 

    PvP is unbelieveably broken in MPQ and the only people defending it are those who heavily benefit from it.
  • Dormammu
    Dormammu Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    PvP is unbelieveably broken in MPQ and the only people defending it are those who heavily benefit from it.

    I can't argue. I said as much earlier in this thread. I don't play much PvP and I don't benefit from it. But grinding out more matches for progression prizes is not what I want out of PvP and isn't going to invest me in it. I grind enough in PvE.
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited August 2017
    Dragon_Nexus said:
    Speaking purely for myself, I've been unable to consistently hit 900 points in PvP for a long time.

    I play PvP for the progression rewards. I try to get to 900, but if I get hit too often I just go for 825 and be done with it. Hell half the time I'm too afraid of "getting greedy" and aiming for 900 because, hey, I'm at 840 now...and if I chance it I might finish the fight with 760 and never get up to 840 again. Because that's happened frequently.

    I don't really care about placement since the 4* rewards are only for the top 5 anyway. If I'm lucky I'll get three 3*s from top 25, otherwise I'll get two from top 50. Not particularly exciting.

    Likewise in a season, I'm not playing to be the best in the season, I play to get that CP at the end of progression. If all of that changed to wins only, I'd enjoy myself a lot more since I don't have to sweat about shied strategy or getting screwed over on a high point fight when I gain 40 points and lose 104.
    This also speaks for me.  I'm currently focused on a wide roster vs a high roster and I have about 50% of the 4*s rostered, but most are below 280.  I still find it difficult to consistently hit 900 points in PvP.  I've had a few events where it was no sweat, but more often that not I get to 825-850 and face a wall where i have to throw HP at a shield for a single hop or two to get it.  Some of the inconsistency is who's boosted and and how well they team together.  Other times is based on how much time I have to devote to PvP and if that time corresponds with the games schedule (spoiler alert, it almost never does).  

    I've adopted the following approach to PvP.  Since my preference is a wide roster I'm currently focusing most of my effort chasing the covers I need for my dwindling number of non-champed 4* characters.  So here's my current process:
    1. Is the 900 progression cover one I need?  If yes then really try for 900, if no then continue.
    2. Is the placement 4* something I really need?  If yes try to snipe the bracket (only have about 40% success rate)
    3. If the answer to both was no, just play PvP casually and be happy with at least 575.
    This has made PvP a little less stressful, but I still find it generally unpalatable and I keep hoping they come up with some good fixes for it.  I enjoyed the win-based system more than what we have now, but I agree there are better options.  Simplest solution would be to keep progression point based and the same point levels (or only slightly increase) and make losses not subtract from progression points (placement points could still be lost like normal).
  • Alsmir
    Alsmir Posts: 508 Critical Contributor
    The rockett said:
    It blows my mind that non pvp players want the pvp system changed. When you ask them how they play, they almost never use shields, expect to make a straight run to 900 (for this example) and have very few 4*. I mean, what do you except?  So this system should be changed just for you?  
    The pve system scaling for 5* was insane. That's why a lot of people were asking for this change and why soft cappers were not happy. They kept their rosters low, specifically 5*, so they could win every event. 
    The pvp system is not perfect, but to go to total win count and remove the CPs from progression will not be good.  This will hurt current 4* players that do go for 1200 and get it every event.  I am not say there can't be tweaks, but if total win is the only thing that matters, then the non pvp players will spend less on shields than they do now, if they even spend on shields. 
    I can use shields and I've read every piece of advice about PvP. Yet I'm still screwed, because if I want to achieve anyting in current PvPsystem I need to b playing for 2+ years. At 1,5 year I'm just getting few 4* which means I can just dream about 900 points.

    So what,  PvP should only work for 4*+ roosters and everyone else can forget about it? Well that blows my mind, how selfish you are.
  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
    Alsmir said:
    The rockett said:
    It blows my mind that non pvp players want the pvp system changed. When you ask them how they play, they almost never use shields, expect to make a straight run to 900 (for this example) and have very few 4*. I mean, what do you except?  So this system should be changed just for you?  
    The pve system scaling for 5* was insane. That's why a lot of people were asking for this change and why soft cappers were not happy. They kept their rosters low, specifically 5*, so they could win every event. 
    The pvp system is not perfect, but to go to total win count and remove the CPs from progression will not be good.  This will hurt current 4* players that do go for 1200 and get it every event.  I am not say there can't be tweaks, but if total win is the only thing that matters, then the non pvp players will spend less on shields than they do now, if they even spend on shields. 
    I can use shields and I've read every piece of advice about PvP. Yet I'm still screwed, because if I want to achieve anyting in current PvPsystem I need to b playing for 2+ years. At 1,5 year I'm just getting few 4* which means I can just dream about 900 points.

    So what,  PvP should only work for 4*+ roosters and everyone else can forget about it? Well that blows my mind, how selfish you are.
    How selfish are you? Just because those rewards are there doesn't mean you should be able to get them. You're under the impression that it doesn't matter how strong your roster is you should be able to get all the rewards. That's just not true! Do I want the 15 CP at 1200? Tinykitty yeah I do! Is my roster strong enough yet? No. 

    This isn't Story mode, it's Versus. When your roster is to the point of contention you'll earn those rewards. 
  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited August 2017
    To keep my theme going. Started Ravager Clan late, s1. 3 matches have 180 points already. Been floating there for a few hours. After I'm done here with work I'll climb up to ~600, shield for awhile. Then finish my climb to 900+ between 12 and 24 hr left. Seriously easy and way less work than the win based system.

    EDIT: 12 wins @ 583. 48.5 average. Shielded here for the time being. That total includes 2 wipes, I think I lost 12 points. Still easier than win based, I should be at the 4* cover before 20 wins. Still no outside coordination. 
  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
    OK, my last post. Finished in Ravager Clan and shielded out. Sitting on 924 points after 20 wins. No other wipes but the 2 I mentioned in previous post. That's an average of 46.2 points per win (I didn't do the math including the 2 wipes, just the wins). For the first 12 wins I played at my leisure and used an 8 hr shield (And probably didn't have to, just wanted the retals to bounce off it). Finished the last 8 when I had time well after the shield expired. Ending on a 24 hr.

    The win based system would just turn Versus into another grind. Quite literally double the effort, if the 4* stands at 40, for the same rewards.
  • Nightglider1
    Nightglider1 Posts: 731 Critical Contributor
    I don't care about placement, so I really liked the test and hope that system comes back soon.

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