Vhailorx wrote: Nice update Colog! a few questions/thoughts in response: (1) Do you think Cage has much PVP value? You have done a great job outlining his worth against goons in PVE. And yellow and black seem like legitimately good powers. But red is pretty bad (considering the cost and reasonably difficult to meet contingency). He isn't an AP battery, and he doesn't provide fast/reliable offense, so I don't see a place for him in 2+ featured PVP unless he is the best boosted character in a bad week.
Colognoisseur wrote: In PvP there just aren’t enough things cast to make the passive come in to play. Although buffed in his featured PvP once there were three on the board the 5* match damage was shut down. I don’t think he will be a PvP player because of this.
OneLastGambit wrote: I'm not sure hb and teen Jean can still be considered top tier anymore.
OneLastGambit wrote: I'm not sure hb and teen Jean can still be considered top tier anymore. Quake makes teen Jean absolutely useless and hb is not much of a damage dealer in the current meta, showing his age now. Other than that I completely agree.
CrookedKnight wrote: Also, even though neither of Jean's actives is best in class anymore, there's still no other single character who carries two high-power AOE attacks -- even in the 5* tier.
OneLastGambit wrote: I'm not sure hb and teen Jean can still be considered top tier anymore. Quake makes teen Jean absolutely useless and hb is not much of a damage dealer in the current meta, showing his age now.
carrion pigeons wrote: Suggestions for tier 2 (as far as pvp goes): Ant-Man Cyclops XFDP Kate Bishop 4hor War Machine X-23 Not that I have a ton of experience with the 4* tier, but that has been my impression.
Vhailorx wrote: (1) Do you think Cage has much PVP value?
(2) Your list of essential 4*s seems to be supported by both the player consensus, and the opponents I see in SSim. But what about your second tier? That's where people have trouble deciding how to spend limited resources. Anyone who has peggy or Rulk at 13/13 and doesn't level them is either (i) softapping, (ii) really dumb, or (iii) uninterested in the meta. But the hard choice is when you have Peggy and 12/13 and Xpool or X23 ready to champ, but not enough iso for both. So who would be in your second tier, and how far behind the essential 8 do you think the second tier is? IMO, Xpool, X23, Kate, quake, and 4* thor all seem to be pretty clear 2nd tiers (and not all that far behind behind the best 8). There are some other, more recent 4*s that may belong in this group too (moonie, cage, war machine, bucky), but I don't have enough experience with them to say to for sure. And a few older characters with neat tricks (thing, antman, KP, carnage) that could arguably be included included as well, but I think they have mostly been aged out of tier 2 status. Where is your cutoff point for "this character is worth champing when fully covered, even if it runs the risk of delaying a better character in the short term"?
jobob wrote: PVE warriors: Cage, Quake, GT, X23 (I am only including Cage/Quake as 2nd Tier specifically because of PVE... otherwise, they are definitely not)
*XFDP is a highly specialized character. He wouldn’t be 2nd tier normally, but he serves a very key role in the 4 -> 5* PVP transition, and in that particular stage, he becomes the #1 4* IMO.
Pylgrim wrote: jobob wrote: PVE warriors: Cage, Quake, GT, X23 (I am only including Cage/Quake as 2nd Tier specifically because of PVE... otherwise, they are definitely not) I agree in most things with you but I'm wondering why you think that Quake is not 2nd tier in PVP? Her passive blankets the best powers of half of the 8 tier 1 characters. *XFDP is a highly specialized character. He wouldn’t be 2nd tier normally, but he serves a very key role in the 4 -> 5* PVP transition, and in that particular stage, he becomes the #1 4* IMO. Could you please elaborate on this? Do you mean as part of the combo with X-Force? Then why not mention him too?
stochasticism wrote: Pylgrim wrote: jobob wrote: PVE warriors: Cage, Quake, GT, X23 (I am only including Cage/Quake as 2nd Tier specifically because of PVE... otherwise, they are definitely not) I agree in most things with you but I'm wondering why you think that Quake is not 2nd tier in PVP? Her passive blankets the best powers of half of the 8 tier 1 characters. *XFDP is a highly specialized character. He wouldn’t be 2nd tier normally, but he serves a very key role in the 4 -> 5* PVP transition, and in that particular stage, he becomes the #1 4* IMO. Could you please elaborate on this? Do you mean as part of the combo with X-Force? Then why not mention him too? No. 5* match damage will trigger his passive and since the 5* will also tank for him his black will fire off almost every turn. Works especially well with OML.
Pylgrim wrote: jobob wrote: PVE warriors: Cage, Quake, GT, X23 (I am only including Cage/Quake as 2nd Tier specifically because of PVE... otherwise, they are definitely not) I agree in most things with you but I'm wondering why you think that Quake is not 2nd tier in PVP? Her passive blankets the best powers of half of the 8 tier 1 characters.
Pylgrim wrote: I agree in most things with you but I'm wondering why you think that Quake is not 2nd tier in PVP? Her passive blankets the best powers of half of the 8 tier 1 characters.
Could you please elaborate on this? Do you mean as part of the combo with X-Force? Then why not mention him too?