zonatahunt wrote: If this is a solid OML counter (we won't know until the full stats are up), how would this new toon be worthwhile only 5% of the time when OML is used on almost EVERY PvP team?
PeterGibbons316 wrote: Of course they don't - specialists are created to change or counter the current meta (which currently revolves mostly around OML). This is a good thing. I know you remember how awful the XFW/4Thor days were, and how well received their nerfs were as a mechanism to change the meta at that time. Now new characters with new mechanics are released as a means to offer new, viable, competing strategies for success. Deciding whether or not it's worth the investment for a niche character is what this game is all about.
Vhailorx wrote: zonatahunt wrote: If this is a solid OML counter (we won't know until the full stats are up), how would this new toon be worthwhile only 5% of the time when OML is used on almost EVERY PvP team? For one because the counter costs 12ap. For that price it will have to be damn good. And OML isn't used in every match. People will start using GG and IM46 as they get covers.
Vhailorx wrote: PeterGibbons316 wrote: Of course they don't - specialists are created to change or counter the current meta (which currently revolves mostly around OML). This is a good thing. I know you remember how awful the XFW/4Thor days were, and how well received their nerfs were as a mechanism to change the meta at that time. Now new characters with new mechanics are released as a means to offer new, viable, competing strategies for success. Deciding whether or not it's worth the investment for a niche character is what this game is all about. But characters that only excel in specific circumstances are never going to be good as the game is currently constituted. It will always be better to spend resources on a generalist, even if the generalist isn't quite as good. Sure, JG was designed to counter prof x, but she top tier because she turned out good at everything. She isn't the best at PvP offense because she is slow, but she is good enough tjat, combined with her value in pve and on defense, she is always worth having. I guess my real point is that demiurge is making a mistake of they think niche characters will allow them to build a deeper 4I tier while keeping player interest up. The game offers tons of characters and never enough resources (covers or iso) to use them all without spending hundreds of thousands of dollars. Given those limited resources, players will just ignore characters that are too niche and focus on the generalists.
PeterGibbons316 wrote: Vhailorx wrote: PeterGibbons316 wrote: Of course they don't - specialists are created to change or counter the current meta (which currently revolves mostly around OML). This is a good thing. I know you remember how awful the XFW/4Thor days were, and how well received their nerfs were as a mechanism to change the meta at that time. Now new characters with new mechanics are released as a means to offer new, viable, competing strategies for success. Deciding whether or not it's worth the investment for a niche character is what this game is all about. But characters that only excel in specific circumstances are never going to be good as the game is currently constituted. It will always be better to spend resources on a generalist, even if the generalist isn't quite as good. Sure, JG was designed to counter prof x, but she top tier because she turned out good at everything. She isn't the best at PvP offense because she is slow, but she is good enough tjat, combined with her value in pve and on defense, she is always worth having. I guess my real point is that demiurge is making a mistake of they think niche characters will allow them to build a deeper 4I tier while keeping player interest up. The game offers tons of characters and never enough resources (covers or iso) to use them all without spending hundreds of thousands of dollars. Given those limited resources, players will just ignore characters that are too niche and focus on the generalists. But what happens when you have all the generalists maxed? What next? Who was your 12th maxed 3*? Your 8th maxed 4*? These are real decisions that people contemplate over in the Roster and Level Help section, and adding new characters with new mechanics influences those decisions. Also, don't forget that in the very early stages of each tier people are limited by the covers they get. My first maxed 3*s were Daredevil and Patch. I picked them from the handful that I had covered because they create a combo that works. That was my meta at the time. I maxed Falcon, Daken, and Blade before Thor. BP and KK were 19th and 20th - and those are generally considered top tier. A roster filled with specialists can be incredibly effective, not to mention more fun. Being able to select the perfect team to counter a particular opponent is far more rewarding than weeks if not months of nothing more than Loaner/XFW/4Thor
PeterGibbons316 wrote: Also, don't forget that in the very early stages of each tier people are limited by the covers they get.
Orion wrote: The new character could be the perfect OML counter and it won't matter. Why? Because it takes forever for anyone to fully cover and champ a 4*. So 6 months from now, maybe 1% of the people will have this guy champed? Meanwhile, OMLs will dominate PvP for those next 6 months.
Vhailorx wrote: I was thinking of specialist/generalist in terms of "in which scenarios does a character excel." those that excel in many different circumstances are generalists; those that excel in very specific circumstances are specialists, or niche characters. So cyclops and switch are generalists because it is almost always good for your team to generate ap quickly, or deal significant single target damage.