atomzed wrote: I changed my stance on the 3* nerf. (Pylgrim should be interested in this). I think they overdid the nerf. I asked a friend with a sandboxed account to help me get the stats for a max champ 3* and their ability dmg when buffed. He only have a few characters who is max champ (says a lot when someone with infinite hp who don't even have max champ for all characters). Here are the stats for a max champ sentry. Before buff:- level 266 sentry super nova does 1926 base dmg plus 321 dmg per red tile destroyed. That equate to 4815 AOE dmg. After buff:- level 360 sentry super nova does 3234 based dmg plus 539 dmg per red tile destroyed. That equate to 7985 aoe dmg. (Roughly 1.6x increase in dmg before buff) Even with a max champ sentry, his aoe dmg deals less than half the hp of a max (non champ) 4*. Meaning that you need 2 cast of super nova to kill a 4*. Considering that Sentry red has a very bad side effect (self dmg), I would expect it to hit a lot harder. Probably in the range of 9000 dmg. I still believe that the game should move into a 4* meta, but the nerf has all but make 3* irrelevant even when they are max champ . Previously I assume when they are max champ and buffed they will hit harder as a non champ 4*. It seems that my assumption is wrong. I admit that. If there is a change, I hope that they will increase the dmg for 3* by about 25%. They should be more competitive with a 25% dmg instead.
Nonce Equitaur 2 wrote: [anchor=sentry3]Sentry (Dark Avengers)[/anchor]3 Star Rarity (Rare) - (Gold Character) Discussion link. Wiki link.At Max Level: HP: 10710 Tile damage: 61/79/13/11/70/12/3.0 Supernova - 11 Red AP The Sentry projects an epic energy blast. Damages the enemy team for 329 before shattering up to 4 random Red tiles. Each tile damages the enemy team for 82 and allies for 82 but does not generate AP. This ability ends the turn. Level Upgrades Level 2: Sentry hits the enemy team for 355 damage. Damage to his own team is reduced to 66 damage per tile. Level 3: Sentry hits the enemy team for 378 damage, and destroys 5 Red tiles. Level 4: Sentry hits the enemy team for 428 damage, and destroys 7 Red tiles. Level 5: Sentry hits the enemy team for 494 damage, and destroys 9 Red tiles. Damage to his own team is reduced to 43 damage per tile destroyed. Max Level: Max Level: 1565 + 261 enemies/137 allies
I still believe that the game should move into a 4* meta, but the nerf has all but make 3* irrelevant even when they are max champ . Previously I assume when they are max champ and buffed they will hit harder as a non champ 4*. It seems that my assumption is wrong. I admit that. If there is a change, I hope that they will increase the dmg for 3* by about 25%. They should be more competitive with a 25% dmg instead.
aesthetocyst wrote: Pylgrim wrote: atomzed wrote: I changed my stance on the 3* nerf. (Pylgrim should be interested in this). I think they overdid the nerf. I asked a friend with a sandboxed account to help me get the stats for a max champ 3* and their ability dmg when buffed. He only have a few characters who is max champ (says a lot when someone with infinite hp who don't even have max champ for all characters). Here are the stats for a max champ sentry. Before buff:- level 266 sentry super nova does 1926 base dmg plus 321 dmg per red tile destroyed. That equate to 4815 AOE dmg. After buff:- level 360 sentry super nova does 3234 based dmg plus 539 dmg per red tile destroyed. That equate to 7985 aoe dmg. (Roughly 1.6x increase in dmg before buff) Even with a max champ sentry, his aoe dmg deals less than half the hp of a max (non champ) 4*. Meaning that you need 2 cast of super nova to kill a 4*. Considering that Sentry red has a very bad side effect (self dmg), I would expect it to hit a lot harder. Probably in the range of 9000 dmg. I still believe that the game should move into a 4* meta, but the nerf has all but make 3* irrelevant even when they are max champ . Previously I assume when they are max champ and buffed they will hit harder as a non champ 4*. It seems that my assumption is wrong. I admit that. If there is a change, I hope that they will increase the dmg for 3* by about 25%. They should be more competitive with a 25% dmg instead. Thanks for doing this and for admitting your miscalculation, it's appreciated. It's depressing to hear that after gathering 100 additional covers, and waiting until a given 3* is boosted (every 10 PVPs or so, I think?) A 3* character is still not good enough. I seriously hoped that in exchange for screwing us badly for the first half of the championing process, the second half would make it all worth it and make them forces to be reckoned... but not even that? You're blurring together 2 things. Atomzed is discussing stats for maxchamped (level 266) 3*s, not buffed 3*s. This question has been asked and answered many times over.
Pylgrim wrote: atomzed wrote: I changed my stance on the 3* nerf. (Pylgrim should be interested in this). I think they overdid the nerf. I asked a friend with a sandboxed account to help me get the stats for a max champ 3* and their ability dmg when buffed. He only have a few characters who is max champ (says a lot when someone with infinite hp who don't even have max champ for all characters). Here are the stats for a max champ sentry. Before buff:- level 266 sentry super nova does 1926 base dmg plus 321 dmg per red tile destroyed. That equate to 4815 AOE dmg. After buff:- level 360 sentry super nova does 3234 based dmg plus 539 dmg per red tile destroyed. That equate to 7985 aoe dmg. (Roughly 1.6x increase in dmg before buff) Even with a max champ sentry, his aoe dmg deals less than half the hp of a max (non champ) 4*. Meaning that you need 2 cast of super nova to kill a 4*. Considering that Sentry red has a very bad side effect (self dmg), I would expect it to hit a lot harder. Probably in the range of 9000 dmg. I still believe that the game should move into a 4* meta, but the nerf has all but make 3* irrelevant even when they are max champ . Previously I assume when they are max champ and buffed they will hit harder as a non champ 4*. It seems that my assumption is wrong. I admit that. If there is a change, I hope that they will increase the dmg for 3* by about 25%. They should be more competitive with a 25% dmg instead. Thanks for doing this and for admitting your miscalculation, it's appreciated. It's depressing to hear that after gathering 100 additional covers, and waiting until a given 3* is boosted (every 10 PVPs or so, I think?) A 3* character is still not good enough. I seriously hoped that in exchange for screwing us badly for the first half of the championing process, the second half would make it all worth it and make them forces to be reckoned... but not even that?
aesthetocyst wrote: Well, consider this. First, it's only 1 power. You're judging an entire tier by 1 of its 120 abilities.
However, bear in mind that the trend is accelerating, AND that lvl 360 was Sentry's PVE buff. When featured in PVP he will be much higher, and his red hitting much harder.
Lastly, the arbitrary decisions about how good a 3* at whatever level "should" be. Atomzed says 3*s need "25% more damage". Why 25%? Atomzed notes that it takes 2x Sentry Red to kill a 4* when Sentry is at lvl 360. Well, OK. Hmmm. At level 166 it takes more than 2 Reds to kill another lvl 166 3*, or a lvl 166 4*. Why at level 360 should it suddenly be proportionally stronger? It's an AoE, not a focused nuke.
aesthetocyst wrote: Well, consider this. First, it's only 1 power. You're judging an entire tier by 1 of its 120 abilities. Secondly, plot the available numbers: Plotting the base and total damage by level for Sentry's red, I see that it does, as hoped*, follow the now-familiar, post-R91 S-curve seen in the match damage numbers. Grows as normal from 40 to 166, creeps along to 266, grows quickly again beyond that. I used straight line segments on this plot because only 4 data points were given, between Wiki's lvl 40 and 166 numbers, and Atomzed's reported numbers for lvl 266 and 360. However, bear in mind that the trend is accelerating, AND that lvl 360 was Sentry's PVE buff. When featured in PVP he will be much higher, and his red hitting much harder. Lastly, the arbitrary decisions about how good a 3* at whatever level "should" be. Atomzed says 3*s need "25% more damage". Why 25%? Atomzed notes that it takes 2x Sentry Red to kill a 4* when Sentry is at lvl 360. Well, OK. Hmmm. At level 166 it takes more than 2 Reds to kill another lvl 166 3*, or a lvl 166 4*. Why at level 360 should it suddenly be proportionally stronger? It's an AoE, not a focused nuke. The devs did something interesting with the scaling changes. for 100-110 lvls, from 166 to 275ish, they made match and ability damage growth flatten, while the 3* characters health continues to grow apace, and 4* health actually grows faster. The characters become less deadly to one another. Then, the ability and match damage curves upward, and so does lethality. ______________* I say "hoped" because I sure hoped it wasn't going to stay flat
aesthetocyst wrote: atomzed wrote: I didn't realise that pvp boost is higher. In pvp, he will be level 390. Going by your chart, sentry will hit about 8k-9k? The PVE feature buff is a flat +94 levels. It's really helpful on new characters, but less so as you level them The PVP feature used to work out to around +75% (40 to 70, 166 to 290), but it has been changed to a sliding scale. The same change that increased the loaner levels. A 40 now buffs to 145, which is HUGE .... but eh %age drops. My lvl 176 DD buffs to 301 (+71%). Someone told me the level that a 266 buffs to when featured .... but I already forgot it. 400-450. 399 would be a 50% buff .... 425 a 60% buff... 440 a 67% buff ... So the total damage on Sentry's red ... at lvl 400+ ... should be .... a lot. More than 10K. Ask some whales with lvl 266 Daredevils how his red is looking, and what level he boosts to.
atomzed wrote: I didn't realise that pvp boost is higher. In pvp, he will be level 390. Going by your chart, sentry will hit about 8k-9k?
atomzed wrote: aesthetocyst wrote: atomzed wrote: I didn't realise that pvp boost is higher. In pvp, he will be level 390. Going by your chart, sentry will hit about 8k-9k? The PVE feature buff is a flat +94 levels. It's really helpful on new characters, but less so as you level them The PVP feature used to work out to around +75% (40 to 70, 166 to 290), but it has been changed to a sliding scale. The same change that increased the loaner levels. A 40 now buffs to 145, which is HUGE .... but eh %age drops. My lvl 176 DD buffs to 301 (+71%). Someone told me the level that a 266 buffs to when featured .... but I already forgot it. 400-450. 399 would be a 50% buff .... 425 a 60% buff... 440 a 67% buff ... So the total damage on Sentry's red ... at lvl 400+ ... should be .... a lot. More than 10K. Ask some whales with lvl 266 Daredevils how his red is looking, and what level he boosts to. I don't have friends with a max champ DD... BUT I did manage to find a way to check out the max champ stats... Through TU! I had a level 266 DD ambush TU, and when buffed it gives a boosted level of 405 (!). So we can safely say that the max buff champ level will be 405. So here are the stats for aesth Level 173 ambush 5565 (enemy trigger), 3092 (self trigger) Level 266 Ambush 6743, 3747 Level 298 Ambush 7627, 4238 Level 405 ambush 15340, 8524 I have to say, that the dmg at level 405, is impressive. It is more than double than level 166. Against a 4* the dmg of 15340 is certainly impressive. So maybe it isn't so bad after all. I will continue to find stats for max champ
aesthetocyst wrote: [ If we can get more numbers for a few more abilities, perhaps we can confirm such a pattern exists (...or completely blow it apart!).IF this pattern is consistent, it can be used to judge how all 3* abilities will scale ... an imply there is are similar patterns for the other rarities!Sentry Lvl __ Base Dmg __%age __ Tile Dmg __ %age ____ Total Dmg __ %age_4 405 ... 4400 . . . . 281.2% . . 733 . . . . . . 280.8% . . . 10997 . . . . 281.0%
aesthetocyst wrote: Magneto Lvl __ Tile Dmg ___ %age _40 . . _81 . . . . . . _31.0% 166 . . 261 . . . . . . 100.0% 195 . . 279 . . . . . . 106.9% 246 . . 309 . . . . . . 118.4% 405 . . 731 . . . . . . 280.0%Magneto Lvl __ Swap Dmg __ Total ___ %age _40 . . _224 . . . . . . _1568 . . _31.4% 166 . . _713 . . . . . . _4991 . . 100.0% 195 . . _759 . . . . . . _5313 . . 106.5% 246 . . _844 . . . . . . _5908 . . 118.4% 405 . . 1997 . . . . . . 13979 . . 280.0%
Pylgrim wrote: Thanks atomsed. To answer your last question, would 17k for 10 blue AP have been too much for a 3* power? Right now, from where I'm standing, I'd, like you, entertain the question carefully. However, by the time I finally max-champ a 3*, when maxed or near maxed 5*s will be much more frequent, I'm pretty sure I'll think that 17k is just fair. Especially since a 3* only gets the "featured" bonus buff once every 100 days. 13k will be definitely insufficient, or at least not worth the added hardships I'm experience for the first half of the champion levels.
atomzed wrote: Pylgrim wrote: Thanks atomsed. To answer your last question, would 17k for 10 blue AP have been too much for a 3* power? Right now, from where I'm standing, I'd, like you, entertain the question carefully. However, by the time I finally max-champ a 3*, when maxed or near maxed 5*s will be much more frequent, I'm pretty sure I'll think that 17k is just fair. Especially since a 3* only gets the "featured" bonus buff once every 100 days. 13k will be definitely insufficient, or at least not worth the added hardships I'm experience for the first half of the champion levels. I agree that you have an arguable case here. The developer may feel that the nerf is more in line with the growth trajectory of the 4*. If possible I will really like to find out the buffed damage for 4*. Then we can do a comparison.