'Boosted' Characters Rebalancing Post-Champions

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  • puppychowpuppychow Age Unconfirmed Posts: 1,453
    well, this played out exactly the way I envisioned on day 1 of champion feature going live. 99.999% of us veterans who took the plunge and started championing noticed the damage nerf right away, particularly since 2HT was an essential character for the pve running at the time.

    That being said, MPQ players are amazing resilient, and most of us managed to figure out ways to adapt to the wholesale damage nerf for 2/3* tiers. Personally, I broke 1k in pvp running solely 3* non-max champed teams in many subsequent pvp events, so I guess I'm part of that group. icon_mrgreen.gificon_lol.gif
  • AionTeleosAionTeleos Age Unconfirmed Posts: 37 Just Dropped In
    I'm pretty entertained by the scare quotes in the thread title
  • CaptainFrugalCaptainFrugal Age Unconfirmed Posts: 67
    Please consider fixing this, my alliance is at the 2* level with myself transitioning to 3*, this change has led several of my team mates to quit and some are considering leaving. The DDQ was a great transition tool, now that it has changed it is almost impossible to earn the daily cover.
    The PVP was getting playable with 2* champions and now this removes that as well.
    The events are very challenging for a 2 to 3 transition as well, champions was helping to bridge the gap.

    These changes seems to be doing more harm than good.
  • mpqr7mpqr7 Posts: 2,642 Chairperson of the Boards
    Very funny, so they gave us more power and then took away more power. Not really sure what the point of it all is! I guess championing really is more about the prizes you win, not so much about any power increase or added usability of any character. Well, if you have good 5*s and 4*s, you'd be crazy to rely on 3*s for any pvp match.

    I do use 3*s in pve though. They're fine there, where I have no fear of retals. My faves are daken and if; they work great together.
  • JVRealJVReal Posts: 1,884 Chairperson of the Boards
    Lots of good information in this thread. Glad they finally came out and said it, because some were still holding out hope that it was a bug.

    If you skipped to the end, please go back to Page 1 and read the Green posts. They really do reflect the way most of us feel about this change that has been in place since they introduced the championed feature.

    I'm in the 3-4* transition. I have a whole bunch of 3* going through the championing phase, and several max covered, but capped at 120-140.

    The very definition of championing a character is making them better than they were. To lower the power scaling after max level made them worse than they were when they were boosted... but if you champion them you can get back to where they were without the champion feature... thanks??

    It reminds me of when I used to work at a job that was above minimum wage, and I felt good. I was doing better than the bottom tier, not by much, but I was above the minimum wage. Then they came along and raised minimum wage... and I actually got a raise because of it to bring me back up to the bottom... now I was at minimum wage again. Back at the bottom. Everything around me went up, thereby eliminating any benefit I once had.

    I'm running on a treadmill standing in front of a mural of a forest path, trying to convince myself that I'm making progress, but I'm getting nowhere. I have the illusion of progress, but never get anywhere.

    It will take a long time for my 3* characters to be max championed. My highest one is 178. That's only 12 out of 100 levels. How fast did they think we would champion them to give them such an immediate and drastic NERF? The nerf was immediate, but overcoming the nerf by max championing will take well over a year. Did the threat seem so imminent to them?

    In PVP, I can take my championed characters, and once I get around 800, progress is stalled because I'm coming up against CHAMPIONED 4*... not just max leveled. So my maxed 3* that have 12 additional covers aren't going to stand a chance against regular maxed 4*... forget about the champed 4* (and the 4* champ/boosted have a much better growth curve).

    In all honesty, the 5* tier has screwed up the balance dynamic in this game. They are so overpowered and because they play on the same playground, they just dominate and push around even maxed 4* rosters who then take that frustration on 3* rosters. It's amazing how 5* rosters have changed not just the game, but people. A previously decent person drops some cash, gets into a buy group and lucks out on several LT pulls and suddenly they are enforcing their gameplay ideas on everyone in their shard... kind of makes me glad to be stuck at 800 in a PVP. I'm blocked from my 1K covers I need, but I'm spared from the snipers and egomaniacs.

    Anyway, the devs need to rethink this entire game balancing thing since its so out of whack. Either split the groups up, or bring everything back into some kind of balance. God knows you won't nerf the 5* money train. That means you may have to split them apart into different tiers of competition. 1-3* PVP, 4-5* PVP.

    We know you hate to undo what you've done if its of any significance, it would mean admitting you're wrong. At least you've swallowed some pride and admitted DDQ was tweaked poorly and you're fixing it starting today, and now you're admitting this NERF was intentional. At least we're getting past the denial phase... only 11 more steps?
  • Uhm, Hello? It's not just that we've been given a new system (everybody so wow, yeah, great, wooohoooo)... in the shadows they nerfed them... it's logical that now so many players are angry about this. There comes a new toy, but you can't play with it like it should meant to be. icon_e_sad.gif

    The changes are often too heavy, not just a little bit, no, most bamm...!

    I'm not angry about it, it's not worth it. A great game sinking down to focusing on just making money (ISO is the new Hero Points)... it would be so easy to make the Puzzler happy...

    I'll keep my wallet strictly closed now.
  • CaptainFrugalCaptainFrugal Age Unconfirmed Posts: 67
    I just dropped $50, and then this...thanks.
    I now have put a lot of ISO in 2 star characters, and now this...thanks.

    I feel like I have been cheated a bit here. I was just at a point where I was feeling that I could compete to earn some things.
  • XenoberyllXenoberyll Posts: 647 Critical Contributor
    mpqr7 wrote:
    Very funny, so they gave us more power and then took away more power. Not really sure what the point of it all is! I guess championing really is more about the prizes you win....

    actually it's about making people buy 40packs and considering the amount of max champed 3s, i think it was pretty successful.
  • GrumpySmurf1002GrumpySmurf1002 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 3,511 Chairperson of the Boards
    This is probably a dumb question, but why do you have to reduce the characters power at level 166 to make sure their power is reduced at level 300?

    Phrased another way, they were able to flatten the match damage curve at specific intervals, why doesn't the damage curve of their powers have the same capability?
  • TxMooseTxMoose Age Unconfirmed Posts: 4,319 Chairperson of the Boards
    This is probably a dumb question, but why do you have to reduce the characters power at level 166 to make sure their power is reduced at level 300?

    Phrased another way, they were able to flatten the match damage curve at specific intervals, why doesn't the damage curve of their powers have the same capability?
    did 166s get hit? I thought it was just the ramp-up past 166 was flattened. my impression was that 166s remained the same, but could be wrong - I don't have any 166s any more.
  • Jam_AdamsJam_Adams Age Unconfirmed Posts: 486 Mover and Shaker
    where is the thread aesthetocyst made that charted the old/new power curves. I looked for it and can't find it
  • MPQ_DaywalkerMPQ_Daywalker Posts: 383 Mover and Shaker
    You asked for specific instances in which the change has impacted my game experience negatively. As a 4* transitioner, once the changes hit I was no longer able to compete as successfully as I had in PVP. I've spent a long time (552 days to be exact) building up a roster that I was pretty proud of. Back in Season 21 I actually went over 10,000 points for the season which I was really happy with; Season 22 (the last one before championing) I didn't quite make it to the LT but that was more due to me not having as much time to play over the holidays.

    Once championing started, PVP became much, much tougher for 3* teams. My boosted 3*s could previously take on almost all 4* teams (depending on the boosted 3*s for the week) and I felt I was making progress -- I could hit the 1K mark when I wanted to. Now, against championed 4*s, I rarely have a chance. Sure, I can usually take down a Jean Grey/Hulkbuster team (as long as I don't accidentally get too many match-5s) but a team with a championed Red Hulk, Iceman, or pretty much any boosted maxed 4* isn't worth me even attempting to attack, since I will lose long before I chip away at one or more characters with 20K+ health.

    I used to see maxed, boosted 3*s all the way on up to 1000 points. Now I struggle to hit 800 and every team I queue past that with decent points are the 4* teams; I expect my 3* brethren aren't available for me to queue because they're in the same boat I am.

    So PVP went from an aspect of the game that I was finally able to start enjoying and competing in to one in which I no longer have fun.

    As others in this thread have said, the long road to making our 3*s useful again seems insurmountable. My highest 3* champion right now is Mystique at 177. I still have 6 covers to collect before I start getting a 4* cover from her. Meanwhile, players who already had established 4* rosters are consistently hitting 1000 and 1300, gaining more levels for their champ 4*s, collecting covers for their undercovered 4*s or getting 5* covers/1000 ISO thanks to RNGesus. Those championed 4*s and building 5*s are getting more and more powerful, while my champion 3*s are slowly creeping up to an ability to take on level 270 4*s, who pretty much won't exist in PVP by the time I get there.

    The message I'm receiving, Demiurge, is that the 1000 progression in PVP is not for me. Just like it wasn't for me when I first started the game, or was 6 months into the game, or a year into the game. (Basically any point in the past, unless I had chosen/been able to purchase covers for a 4* with HP to max them out before that went away.)

    If you want to have such disparity between the * tiers, then we need PVP broken out by *s, as has been suggested by others (such as this thread in Suggestions & Feedback). If you want us 3* players to still enjoy and play PVP (and I hope you do), then give us a chance to do it with others on our same level.
  • TxMooseTxMoose Age Unconfirmed Posts: 4,319 Chairperson of the Boards
    while it affects me less than others that are still short of maxed 4*s, they have made the primary location for 4* covers (1000 in pvp) and have made it considerably harder to hit for those that specifically need to hit it. pve progressions are great, but you only get 1-2 of those per week, where 1K offers 3 set covers for those who want to use some hp to go get them when they're worth it. I'm one of the few that it benefits since I have several maxed 4s, but I think its kinda screwy that they've made the 4* transition more difficult than it already was.
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    I'll say it again


    THE ENTIRE GAME IS BASED ON 3*'s!!!!!!!

    If you are going to do this than PvP's should now be 4*. Rewards should be handing out 5*'s as top spot now and 4*'s for top 100 and alliance and for god sake ISO flow needs to be set at a 4* basis. DDQ should be changed to 4* every 2-3 days.

    Everything needs to be shifted and it's okay, but 4*'s need to be let off the leash and treated then as the standard.
  • chamber44chamber44 Posts: 309 Mover and Shaker
    So . . . championing was all just an ISO grab? a way to get players to max 2's and 3's that they wouldn't otherwise waste ISO on, because for so many of us, hitting 1000 in PvP is not feasible and championing is the way we get LT's (and then pray to RNGesus that it's not Chulk)

    hmm.

    that might just about do it for me.

    Because . . . let's face it. It's not just whether you have usable 4's. It's about having a useable Bobby or Jean.
  • CaptainFrugalCaptainFrugal Age Unconfirmed Posts: 67
    Why not just add more trees, so that lower level players can grow then move to another tree when they are ready. At this point it seems that championing 2* characters has now been a waste of time. It almost seems like a plan to push people to buy ISO then surprise you wasted your money.

    My thoughts
    Create new trees (for people to pick the level they can compete, for example a place where 2* and low to mid 3* can compete for 2* and 3* and rare 4* covers) (another tree for 3* that scale rewards as well)

    Reduce the DDQ so that it becomes a good source again, this helps people feel as if they are progressing and makes them want to continue to play. The difficulty boost caused several of my team to call it quits because it is just to hard to progress and compete.

    The current changes make the game much harder for low and mid level players and has removed some of the motivation to play and progress.
  • Jam_Adams wrote:
    STOPTHIS wrote:
    "David wrote:
    Moore"]Demiurge Quote:
      “While we were developing Champions, we took a close look at the balance of characters above their max level,
    particularly the fact that 1-stars, 2-stars, and 3-stars could be significantly stronger than 4-stars and 5-stars of the same level.

    Funny how this isn't a problem when it comes to PvE. You guys are a-OK with Juggernaut taking out an entire 3*/4* team.
    username is relevant.

    Didn't Juggernaut, and all the other overscaled PVE enemies, also get this intense nerf?

    Juggs was nerfed hard in Balance of Power and all.
  • simonsezsimonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
    colwag wrote:
    Didn't Juggernaut, and all the other overscaled PVE enemies, also get this intense nerf?
    I wouldn't call it "intense", and since they can't nerf cascades, 6 green seems to always lead to another 6 green and 6 reds. I've lost my OML more than once to this nonsense.
  • BowgentleBowgentle Posts: 5,038 Chairperson of the Boards
    colwag wrote:
    Jam_Adams wrote:
    STOPTHIS wrote:
    "David wrote:
    Moore"]Demiurge Quote:
      “While we were developing Champions, we took a close look at the balance of characters above their max level,
    particularly the fact that 1-stars, 2-stars, and 3-stars could be significantly stronger than 4-stars and 5-stars of the same level.

    Funny how this isn't a problem when it comes to PvE. You guys are a-OK with Juggernaut taking out an entire 3*/4* team.
    username is relevant.

    Didn't Juggernaut, and all the other overscaled PVE enemies, also get this intense nerf?

    Juggs was nerfed hard in Balance of Power and all.
    Nope, level 290 Juggs still has 24k Health and hits for 7350 per headbutt.
    I WISH they would reign that in.
  • CaptainFrugalCaptainFrugal Age Unconfirmed Posts: 67
    Didn't Juggernaut, and all the other overscaled PVE enemies, also get this intense nerf?

    Juggs was nerfed hard in Balance of Power and all.[/quote]
    Nope, level 290 Juggs still has 24k Health and hits for 7350 per headbutt.
    I WISH they would reign that in.[/quote]

    I know, if you don't stun and stave him you will get killed with an endless cascade of hits. My highest level character is a 2* level 118 and I have to fight 125 level Juggernaut and 126 level Ragnarok, 126 commander.
    Talk about overkill, if I don't get a great drop I am screwed.

    The PVE scaling seems to need improvement as well.
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