***** Jean Grey (Phoenix) *****

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  • VhailorxVhailorx Posts: 4,086 Chairperson of the Boards
    Depending on what slice you pick and how competitively you play PvP, I would recommend you wait until you have two or three more covers, especially in green or red. If you start using a 5* character for PvP, pretty much all other people running 5* characters will see you right from the beginning of their climb so be prepared take hits from people you won't be able to retaliate against. And while Phoenix is arguably the most offensively powered 5* character, she isn't very good on defense (although paired with a well leveled OML makes for quite the tricky situation).

    However, if you are mainly a PvE type player, 5* make it a much more "enjoyable" exeprience. lol

    If I were you, I would focus on getting your 4* main squad set up first while hoping for more 5* pulls. I would start putting ISO in her once you have cover maxed either red or green, (preferrably green). But that's just my spideycoin.png spideycoin.png .

    Interesting. Is that true for any 5* at any level, or can it be controlled by keeping 5*s in the 270-300 range? I would appreciate any extra details about the effects of introducing 5*s to a 4* roster re: PVP match selection.
  • fight4thedreamfight4thedream GLOBAL_MODERATORS Posts: 1,005 Chairperson of the Boards
    Vhailorx wrote:
    Depending on what slice you pick and how competitively you play PvP, I would recommend you wait until you have two or three more covers, especially in green or red. If you start using a 5* character for PvP, pretty much all other people running 5* characters will see you right from the beginning of their climb so be prepared take hits from people you won't be able to retaliate against. And while Phoenix is arguably the most offensively powered 5* character, she isn't very good on defense (although paired with a well leveled OML makes for quite the tricky situation).

    However, if you are mainly a PvE type player, 5* make it a much more "enjoyable" exeprience. lol

    If I were you, I would focus on getting your 4* main squad set up first while hoping for more 5* pulls. I would start putting ISO in her once you have cover maxed either red or green, (preferrably green). But that's just my spideycoin.png spideycoin.png .

    Interesting. Is that true for any 5* at any level, or can it be controlled by keeping 5*s in the 270-300 range? I would appreciate any extra details about the effects of introducing 5*s to a 4* roster re: PVP match selection.

    As far as my experience goes, levelling doesn't matter. If you use a 5* on your PvP team, even one at base level, that other 5* teams will see you. To be honest though, as someone who doesn't have a fully maxed 5* but rides with the Surfer, I appreciate having easy 5* match ups climbing on my way up. Believe you me, those decently levelled OML fights always put the hurt on my team.
  • simonsezsimonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
    As far as my experience goes, levelling doesn't matter. If you use a 5* on your PvP team, even one at base level, that other 5* teams will see you.
    I don't use 5*s, and they see me anyway.
  • fmftintfmftint Posts: 3,639 Chairperson of the Boards
    simonsez wrote:
    As far as my experience goes, levelling doesn't matter. If you use a 5* on your PvP team, even one at base level, that other 5* teams will see you.
    I don't use 5*s, and they see me anyway.
    Same, and half my queues are 350+ SS or OML
  • BlackSheep101BlackSheep101 Posts: 2,022 Chairperson of the Boards
    I've been using OML and/or SS for seeds and haven't found that I've been hit by more 5* teams.
  • VhailorxVhailorx Posts: 4,086 Chairperson of the Boards
    I have been forunate enough to pull 5 covers for her so far (2/1/2) and I have to say that I have been fairly underwhelmed with her utility at 255.

    She has a modest health pool, but nothing special in 4* land. Her red is mediocre pre-res, and pretty good after she revives, but the downside is absolutely brutal (something like 700 in enemy attack tiles in exchange for a few 100 strength strikes and less than 2k damage). Her revived green is decent aoe damage. But again, the downside is fairly considerable, since she she will tear through her own team quickly too. Purple is useless at 1 cover except when the odd match-5 comes around.

    Overall I have reached 2 conclusions and I was wondering if those who have more covers for her can confirm.

    1) 5*s in general need levels pretty badly. Their ability strength and stats are fairly weak at 255.

    2) green might be her signature move, but purple is the engine for her character design, and without it she just doesn't work terribly well. With it she can reliably great match-5s to accellerate her own damage and curtail any enemy attack tiles she makes. She doesn't really have any other way to compensate for her own weaknesses, so it becomes her essential power.

    I can see how she is designed to work, but I don't think 2/1/2 @ 255 will work for her (unlike say a 2/1/2 oml, which seems like it would be on par with a solid top tier 4*). Are these conclusions correct?
  • greenglovegreenglove Posts: 100 Tile Toppler
    Vhailorx wrote:
    I have been forunate enough to pull 5 covers for her so far (2/1/2) and I have to say that I have been fairly underwhelmed with her utility at 255.

    She has a modest health pool, but nothing special in 4* land. Her red is mediocre pre-res, and pretty good after she revives, but the downside is absolutely brutal (something like 700 in enemy attack tiles in exchange for a few 100 strength strikes and less than 2k damage). Her revived green is decent aoe damage. But again, the downside is fairly considerable, since she she will tear through her own team quickly too. Purple is useless at 1 cover except when the odd match-5 comes around.

    Overall I have reached 2 conclusions and I was wondering if those who have more covers for her can confirm.

    1) 5*s in general need levels pretty badly. Their ability strength and stats are fairly weak at 255.

    2) green might be her signature move, but purple is the engine for her character design, and without it she just doesn't work terribly well. With it she can reliably great match-5s to accellerate her own damage and curtail any enemy attack tiles she makes. She doesn't really have any other way to compensate for her own weaknesses, so it becomes her essential power.

    I can see how she is designed to work, but I don't think 2/1/2 @ 255 will work for her (unlike say a 2/1/2 oml, which seems like it would be on par with a solid top tier 4*). Are these conclusions correct?

    Yes, I think you are correct. I've played with her quite a bit on my sandboxed account, and her purple and red are by FAR the most useful skills. By the time you get her maxed to lvl 550, she isn't going to die enough to make her green very useful. The purple needs to be maxed at 5, and I think red is better at 4 than 5. So my optimal build is 4/5/4. When you pair her with OML, then her purple often gives you a match 5 (I often save up for firing two purples off back to back), OML gives you the two strike tiles, and then her match 5 strengthens the two strike tiles to ridiculous proportions. Then her purple feeds into her red, and she annihilates the enemy. I hardly ever use her green.
  • PolaresPolares Posts: 2,402 Chairperson of the Boards
    Vhailorx wrote:
    I have been forunate enough to pull 5 covers for her so far (2/1/2) and I have to say that I have been fairly underwhelmed with her utility at 255.

    She has a modest health pool, but nothing special in 4* land. Her red is mediocre pre-res, and pretty good after she revives, but the downside is absolutely brutal (something like 700 in enemy attack tiles in exchange for a few 100 strength strikes and less than 2k damage). Her revived green is decent aoe damage. But again, the downside is fairly considerable, since she she will tear through her own team quickly too. Purple is useless at 1 cover except when the odd match-5 comes around.

    Overall I have reached 2 conclusions and I was wondering if those who have more covers for her can confirm.

    1) 5*s in general need levels pretty badly. Their ability strength and stats are fairly weak at 255.

    2) green might be her signature move, but purple is the engine for her character design, and without it she just doesn't work terribly well. With it she can reliably great match-5s to accellerate her own damage and curtail any enemy attack tiles she makes. She doesn't really have any other way to compensate for her own weaknesses, so it becomes her essential power.

    I can see how she is designed to work, but I don't think 2/1/2 @ 255 will work for her (unlike say a 2/1/2 oml, which seems like it would be on par with a solid top tier 4*). Are these conclusions correct?

    I just got the purple Phoenix cover, and now she is usable! Mine is now 2/1/2 exactly like yours.

    Thing is ALL 5s need levels, SS is completely useless at 255, and OML is a little bit better because of his passives, specially regen, but when he transforms he is not that spectacular (3k on black 2k on red) at 255. The scaling is what make 5 the monsters they can be, so you need to level them all. I think her green will be around 6k at level 330 which is A LOT.

    Another 'problem' of 5s is that they scale faster in the last levels than in the first ones, which I think it is quite unfortunate.

    Then the problem with Phoenix is that she is a little bit special and different from all other char, because she needs to die to shine. Green is useless until she dies, and red is too expensive. I dont know how people use her in competitive play (300+ level PvE and PvP) but If I have to guess I think they bring her with 30% life and they use her as a shield so she can die first, then transform and start using the cheaper red and green. So get purple while she is alive, cast it, get red, die, use red and green. This is what I would do.

    She looks also to be really good partner for OML, because he can regen! So now that I got her first purple cover and my OML is also ready to be leveled, I want to use them together to see how good this team is (of course, I need a tone of iso :s)
  • VhailorxVhailorx Posts: 4,086 Chairperson of the Boards
    Thanks greenglove.

    I had thought about saving up enough purple to double cast. the problem, however, is the cost. 5 or 6ap powers can be double cast reliably and work quite well (iceman blue, nova red, iron fist black). But in general 7+ap powers that need to be double cast just aren't very good (think Elektra purple or nova black).

    Frustrating that I have had relatively good 5* luck (6 covers, 5 of one character, in maybe 60-70 LTs) and yet after some reflection, the only conclusions I can reach about this good fortune are (1) these 5* covers would only be useful if they were OML, (2) 5*s are not as advertised (i.e. useful with few covers), and (3) I would be so much better off if all those covers had been for iceman or rulk or JG (since I need a purple/green 4\ to pair with imhb.
  • MPQ_DaywalkerMPQ_Daywalker Posts: 383 Mover and Shaker
    What are people's thoughts on Phoenix after her being boosted in the Valentine's PVP?

    My lvl 255 2/1/1 Phoenix was boosted to 345, which apparently was a fairly effective scarecrow -- I got hit a lot less than when I run my boosted 3*s. But in actuality, she wasn't super-effective. I could take on boosted 3* teams without a problem, but my Phoenix plus a Deadpool (either my undercovered 4* or my champed 3*) and a boosted 3* (BP or SWitch) didn't have much of a chance against a top tier 4* team (Cyclops, Rulk, JG).

    I enjoyed having Phoenix tank most colors, letting her take all the damage and actually rise from the ashes a few times... her green at 2 covers and at level 345 does approx. 7K damage to the enemy team, which is very nice at the 3* level. But put up against multiple characters with ~20K health, that amount of damage isn't that impressive. And if her countdown gets accidentally matched away before she comes back? Game over, man. Game over.

    I will continue to collect covers and keep her at lvl 255 for the time being. I just don't know what the magic # of covers will be when she becomes my leveling up priority.
  • Nicholas HewittNicholas Hewitt Age Unconfirmed Posts: 116
    Phoenix really seems like the kind of character that needs 8-9 covers before she becomes really effective. Mine is currently at 2/1/3 and I can't really think of a time I'd want to use her above a boosted 4* or even a non-boosted 4*. Purple definitely seems like the "make-or-break" cover as well, so without a high levelled purple, I wouldn't worry.
  • VhailorxVhailorx Posts: 4,086 Chairperson of the Boards
    It does seem like Phoenix should be treated just like any other 3* or 4*. 10 covers or so, and at least 4 in the most important cover (purple) before she becomes worth leveling.

    How disappointing. For all the hype from demiurge about 5*s being totally different than lower tiers, and each cover being a big deal, they seem to play basically just like the lower tiers: they suck relative to top tier 4*s until they have tons of covers and levels. The only difference is that 5*s start at level 255, so they really mess up your scaling if you aren't firmly in 4* land.
  • morph3usmorph3us Age Unconfirmed Posts: 859 Critical Contributor
    Vhailorx wrote:
    For all the hype from demiurge about 5*s being totally different than lower tiers, and each cover being a big deal, they seem to play basically just like the lower tiers: they suck relative to top tier 4*s until they have tons of covers and levels. The only difference is that 5*s start at level 255, so they really mess up your scaling if you aren't firmly in 4* land.

    Yes and no. I would agree with you about Phoenix playing like the lower tiers in terms of cover requirements. OML is PVP ready from 5-6 covers, though. Not sure which one is the exception and which the rule, though.
  • VhailorxVhailorx Posts: 4,086 Chairperson of the Boards
    morph3us wrote:
    Vhailorx wrote:
    For all the hype from demiurge about 5*s being totally different than lower tiers, and each cover being a big deal, they seem to play basically just like the lower tiers: they suck relative to top tier 4*s until they have tons of covers and levels. The only difference is that 5*s start at level 255, so they really mess up your scaling if you aren't firmly in 4* land.

    Yes and no. I would agree with you about Phoenix playing like the lower tiers in terms of cover requirements. OML is PVP ready from 5-6 covers, though. Not sure which one is the exception and which the rule, though.


    On paper OML is significantly stronger than any other 5* in the game. He looks like the exception. Strong true healing +assive match damage and passive strike tile generation? Even before transforming he is an awesome character. Toss in the transform damage and he is significantly more dangerous than any other 5*.
  • PolaresPolares Posts: 2,402 Chairperson of the Boards
    Vhailorx wrote:
    morph3us wrote:
    Vhailorx wrote:
    For all the hype from demiurge about 5*s being totally different than lower tiers, and each cover being a big deal, they seem to play basically just like the lower tiers: they suck relative to top tier 4*s until they have tons of covers and levels. The only difference is that 5*s start at level 255, so they really mess up your scaling if you aren't firmly in 4* land.

    Yes and no. I would agree with you about Phoenix playing like the lower tiers in terms of cover requirements. OML is PVP ready from 5-6 covers, though. Not sure which one is the exception and which the rule, though.


    On paper OML is significantly stronger than any other 5* in the game. He looks like the exception. Strong true healing +assive match damage and passive strike tile generation? Even before transforming he is an awesome character. Toss in the transform damage and he is significantly more dangerous than any other 5*.

    Thing is a 1/4/2 is a perfectly playable Phoenix, probably even a 1/4/1 is good enough. The big problem with Phoenix (and also with SS black) is that it doesn't scale as much as the other powers with levels, it scales much more with covers. And in the case of Phoenix, purple is her 'pre-death' key power, it is different when she dies, green and levels are the only thing important then, but before that, purple is the power that makes her useful.

    Both OML and Spidey are different because damage powers scale much better with levels (well SS red/blue and Phoenix red also scale well with levels, but they are not as strong)
  • OzarkBoatswainOzarkBoatswain Posts: 645 Critical Contributor
    My Phoenix is 0/2/4. Should I start to level her or wait? I already have a 2/1/1 Logan at max level who is super useful.
  • VhailorxVhailorx Posts: 4,086 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited March 2016
    Ozark,

    The consensus seems to be "no." Phoenix needs 4ish covers in purple to really be good. Also, she is more dangerous with her green because that power forces enemies to target her last on defense, which is useful in concert with someone like oml, who also needs to be targeted last. . .
  • SnowcaTTSnowcaTT Posts: 3,280 Chairperson of the Boards
    Polares wrote:
    Vhailorx wrote:
    morph3us wrote:
    Vhailorx wrote:
    For all the hype from demiurge about 5*s being totally different than lower tiers, and each cover being a big deal, they seem to play basically just like the lower tiers: they suck relative to top tier 4*s until they have tons of covers and levels. The only difference is that 5*s start at level 255, so they really mess up your scaling if you aren't firmly in 4* land.

    Yes and no. I would agree with you about Phoenix playing like the lower tiers in terms of cover requirements. OML is PVP ready from 5-6 covers, though. Not sure which one is the exception and which the rule, though.


    On paper OML is significantly stronger than any other 5* in the game. He looks like the exception. Strong true healing +assive match damage and passive strike tile generation? Even before transforming he is an awesome character. Toss in the transform damage and he is significantly more dangerous than any other 5*.

    Thing is a 1/4/2 is a perfectly playable Phoenix, probably even a 1/4/1 is good enough. The big problem with Phoenix (and also with SS black) is that it doesn't scale as much as the other powers with levels, it scales much more with covers. And in the case of Phoenix, purple is her 'pre-death' key power, it is different when she dies, green and levels are the only thing important then, but before that, purple is the power that makes her useful.

    Both OML and Spidey are different because damage powers scale much better with levels (well SS red/blue and Phoenix red also scale well with levels, but they are not as strong)

    I guess I should start trying mine? I have a 1/5/1 Phoenix as my best 5* (along with 5/0/0 SS, RNG has been brutal to me). I could run her alongside Cyc or HB for a red user, just doesn't pass an eye test as a good/scary team to me.
  • OzarkBoatswainOzarkBoatswain Posts: 645 Critical Contributor
    I think I just had a situation where Phoenix transformed but her AP costs remained the same for purple and red. Has this happened to anyone else?
  • SolidQSolidQ Posts: 237 Tile Toppler
    I think I just had a situation where Phoenix transformed but her AP costs remained the same for purple and red. Has this happened to anyone else?
    same for me
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