Handoftheking26 wrote: he will be an automatic skip
D4Ni13 wrote: Lets take a simple ability display example: Ghost Rider + Black Panther#0 Trigger Hellfire, and wait 1 turn (8 red).#1. Black Panther's Battleplan (9 yellow): 3 strike tiles (at least +525 dmg on every match or ability)#2. Ghost Rider's Burning Rubber (7 green): 1423 + 525 = 1948 damage to all enemies / puts one 151 attack tile on the board / no bonus right now Tile match damage rises to base+525+151 = base+676#3 tile match: base+676 TOTAL DMG on first active turn => damage to all enemies: 1948 damage to specific target: base+676 strike tiles on the board: 4 #4 Ghost Rider's Hellfire Triggers: 1810 + 525 + 151 = 2486 damage / yet another strike tile (235) / 362 + 676 = 1038 bonus damage for villans Tile damage rises to base+676+235 = base+911#5 Ghost Rider's Burning Rubber (7 green): 1423+911 = 2334 damage to all enemies / puts one 151 attack tile on the board / no bonus right now ***If we'd had 6 attack tiles, the bonus would have been at least 435+911 extra damage to all enemies. So if you have an extra stike tile generator (like Daken) in your team before this point, you could easily earn the bonus. Tile damage rises to base+911+151 = base+1062#6 tile match: base+1062 TOTAL DMG on second active turn => damage to all enemies: 2334 (+1346 if bonus stike tiles) to all enemies damage to specific target(s): 2486 (+1038 if bonus villains) + (base+1062) strike tiles on the board: 6 (or 7 if bonus for strike tiles was triggered) Conclusion: in 2 active turns, you can potentially deal 5628 damage to all enemies and (3524 + (base+911) + (base+1062)) damage to specific target(s), and have over 6 strike tile on the board, for 8 red, 9 yellow and 14 green (which is a decent amount of color in any above-average game). For the gauntlet I played with Hulk, Human Torch & Black Panther and I fired at least 20 red, 12 black, 18 yellow and 20 green in a serious match. So the above color count is very decent.So is Ghost Rider weak? Answer: NO. Yes, you need to play smart, and you'll probably be conditioned sometimes, but he's not week at all. He's pretty good and fun. Imagine if you keep Hellfire on the board for more than 2 turn. The damage dealt will always go higher because of the strike tiles. And also the general tile match damage.
IceIX wrote: Thanos wrote: Can we get a list of heroes and villains? I suppose I could gin one up, but it's pretty cut and dry so I'm not sure it's really necessary to list every single character. The only ones that I can think of that are problematic are Black Widow (Original) being a Villain when the rest of her are Heroes, and Red Hulk being labelled a Villain, as this version is pre-Thunderbolts leader.
Thanos wrote: Can we get a list of heroes and villains?
Spiritclaw wrote: So, if Colossus were to throw Ghost Rider at Galactus, and Galactus does his thing while GR is airborne, does penance stare do absurd damage?
Rhycar wrote: This is obviously a response to the whaled 5* teams out there. Keep GR alive for any amount of time and suddenly a level 380 Silver Surfer doesn't look so intimidating anymore.
SangFroid wrote: D4Ni13 wrote: Lets take a simple ability display example: Ghost Rider + Black Panther#0 Trigger Hellfire, and wait 1 turn (8 red).#1. Black Panther's Battleplan (9 yellow): 3 strike tiles (at least +525 dmg on every match or ability)#2. Ghost Rider's Burning Rubber (7 green): 1423 + 525 = 1948 damage to all enemies / puts one 151 attack tile on the board / no bonus right now Tile match damage rises to base+525+151 = base+676#3 tile match: base+676 TOTAL DMG on first active turn => damage to all enemies: 1948 damage to specific target: base+676 strike tiles on the board: 4 #4 Ghost Rider's Hellfire Triggers: 1810 + 525 + 151 = 2486 damage / yet another strike tile (235) / 362 + 676 = 1038 bonus damage for villans Tile damage rises to base+676+235 = base+911#5 Ghost Rider's Burning Rubber (7 green): 1423+911 = 2334 damage to all enemies / puts one 151 attack tile on the board / no bonus right now ***If we'd had 6 attack tiles, the bonus would have been at least 435+911 extra damage to all enemies. So if you have an extra stike tile generator (like Daken) in your team before this point, you could easily earn the bonus. Tile damage rises to base+911+151 = base+1062#6 tile match: base+1062 TOTAL DMG on second active turn => damage to all enemies: 2334 (+1346 if bonus stike tiles) to all enemies damage to specific target(s): 2486 (+1038 if bonus villains) + (base+1062) strike tiles on the board: 6 (or 7 if bonus for strike tiles was triggered) Conclusion: in 2 active turns, you can potentially deal 5628 damage to all enemies and (3524 + (base+911) + (base+1062)) damage to specific target(s), and have over 6 strike tile on the board, for 8 red, 9 yellow and 14 green (which is a decent amount of color in any above-average game). For the gauntlet I played with Hulk, Human Torch & Black Panther and I fired at least 20 red, 12 black, 18 yellow and 20 green in a serious match. So the above color count is very decent.So is Ghost Rider weak? Answer: NO. Yes, you need to play smart, and you'll probably be conditioned sometimes, but he's not week at all. He's pretty good and fun. Imagine if you keep Hellfire on the board for more than 2 turn. The damage dealt will always go higher because of the strike tiles. And also the general tile match damage. From reading this I believe you are confusing attack tiles and strike tiles . Ghost Rider generates ONLY attack tiles with both his red and green powers, they only hit once per turn.
From reading this I believe you are confusing attack tiles and strike tiles . Ghost Rider generates ONLY attack tiles with both his red and green powers, they only hit once per turn. Ah, shoot! You're right. I misread. I thought they are strike tiles. Have to redo all of that
From reading this I believe you are confusing attack tiles and strike tiles . Ghost Rider generates ONLY attack tiles with both his red and green powers, they only hit once per turn.
OJSP wrote: D4Ni13 wrote: My opinion stays the same, despite the lower damage on all enemies: Ghost Rider is a decent character. For me he is better than other 4 stars, and I will try to get him. Cheers, and sorry for the long comments. Don't be sorry and thanks for doing the maths. It makes it easier to imagine his place and usefulness in a 4* roster, in comparison to Hulkbuster, Iceman, Jean Grey or Red Hulk.. like you said, he's decent. Unfortunately, he's not special. I agree he's better than some 4*s, but honestly, needing that many APs, we're not going to survive against over scaled Ares, let alone the 3 Amigos, other Dark Avenger line ups in PvEs or any difficult nodes. Using one of the Gauntlet's nodes as an example, we probably wouldn't bring him to face the X-Force pair and Thor in Simulation 42, at lvl 395 Thor has over than 25,000 HP, Deadpool has 20,000 and Wolverine has almost 16,000. One Out of Bullets will one-shot Black Panther. We'll also struggle to do well in PvPs against other 4*s. With Black Panther as the 3rd character, unless he's boosted, we're going to be an easy target. Collecting that many APs will take that much time and risking a lot of match damage and enemy's powers, we'll probably need a couple of health packs after a match. This makes him only sustainable during an early climb. During a shield hop, we're risking a lot of attacks, not to mention we could actually lose the match against better and quicker 4*s out there. He could be useful against weaker teams, but that makes his Penance Stare weaker.. I think there's simply too many conditions to be fulfilled, for him to deal optimum damage. There are simpler and stronger 4*s out there already.
D4Ni13 wrote: My opinion stays the same, despite the lower damage on all enemies: Ghost Rider is a decent character. For me he is better than other 4 stars, and I will try to get him. Cheers, and sorry for the long comments.
Handoftheking26 wrote: I know every new char takes some getting used to...but I believe this to be a pretty original set of abilities
Phaserhawk wrote: Handoftheking26 wrote: I know every new char takes some getting used to...but I believe this to be a pretty original set of abilities I'll disagree, this is 4* Punisher, with just a different option for execution. Cheap AoE that creates an attack bonus......check CD tile that creates attack tiles........check Execution type skill........check. Sure he has tweaks on those skills, like the CD doing damage in addition to attack tile, and attack tiles instead of strike. The finisher is the big difference, as one is due to dmg dealt and the other is health remaining. I'm still not sold on whether to aim for 5/3/5 or 5/5/3. Red sucks, but black may just be worthless or overkill. For me Black is essentially a counter to AoE. You could leave red Hulk last, he drops a Green Aoe that averages 7500 dmg from all three, and then you drop him with 15K back at his face. Same with JG, she hits everyone fro 10K, you punch her back for 20
Unfortunately, your opinion did sound like it's coming from either a 3* player , 3*-4* transitioner or a Ghost Rider big fan.
Just like you, I'm going to stick to my original opinion in my first reply. I'll see how he plays out once I get him fully covered sometimes next year
Phaserhawk wrote: I'm still not sold on whether to aim for 5/3/5 or 5/5/3. Red sucks, but black may just be worthless or overkill.
Marc Spector wrote: Phaserhawk wrote: I'm still not sold on whether to aim for 5/3/5 or 5/5/3. Red sucks, but black may just be worthless or overkill. I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking the same thing (And was starting to think I was crazy for considering 5/5/3 ). I like the cheap cost of his green and red. Black in my opinion will be "good enough" (at 3 covers) against an aforementioned AOE nuke from JG/RH/etc. Generally I find it of more conditional/situational use than the other two, as when I'm doing a PVP climb I'm generally trying to (and playing carefully enough to) NOT take a giant nuke to the face. I also have no faith in the A.I. using his black properly, in terms of both timing and target. Overall, though, I still think it's a great and original design for a move; I'm pretty happy with Ghost Rider's design overall (and the amazing Clayton Crain cover they chose for him!! That miniseries was amazing.)
notamutant wrote: I think there are a couple different scenarios you have to consider (snip)
IceIX wrote: Thanos wrote: Can we get a list of heroes and villains? I suppose I could gin one up, but it's pretty cut and dry so I'm not sure it's really necessary to list every single character. The only ones that I can think of that are problematic are Black Widow (Original) being a Villain when the rest of her are Heroes, and Red Hulk being labelled a Villain, as this version is pre-Thunderbolts leader. Edit: Added one to the OP.