*** Spider-Man (Classic) ***

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Comments

  • I like where you are going with this. Spiderman needs an offensive power, and the web bandages just don't fit the character IMHO.
    Definitely like getting more use out of those web tiles.
  • HeartburnHeartburn Posts: 527
    it wouldn't be a high percent 10-20% but it would apply to all incoming damage, powers included, likely triggering in a large cascade. making him a forced to be reckoned with. it could also have the ability to side step it with team damage like invisibility does.
  • ronin_sanronin_san Posts: 980 Critical Contributor
    The problem with web bandages is that he only ever bandages himself. Similarly, he uses a web shield to deflect attacks to him.

    I wish he had a web swing and a "destroy team-up tiles. Fling fire hydrant or sewer lid" sort of attack.
  • MalcrofMalcrof GLOBAL_MODERATORS Posts: 5,971 Chairperson of the Boards
    Spidermans offensive capabilities are almost 100% dependent on his environment (which is probably why he would never go to a plains state), like throwing a fire hydrant or any other loose object. If he flings himself at the entire enemy team, he would take some sort of damage, or be stunned to say the least.

    I would say make it a swing in kick to a single target, dealing damage, and reducing their defensive/attack capabilities (destroy attack, shield, and/or strike tiles) for additional damage.

    for more fun, when cast, he is airborne and unattackable for 1 turn, then swings in and kicks.
  • ronin_sanronin_san Posts: 980 Critical Contributor
    what about a true web sling, which he does in both video games, and in cartoons? He commonly webs out with both hands, and stretches back. He lunges forward, feet first. That wouldn't stun him.
  • MawtfulMawtful Posts: 1,646 Chairperson of the Boards
    ronin-san wrote:
    The problem with web bandages is that he only ever bandages himself. Similarly, he uses a web shield to deflect attacks to him.

    I wish he had a web swing and a "destroy team-up tiles. Fling fire hydrant or sewer lid" sort of attack.

    One of my attempts to rework spiderman includes a power that is almost exactly what you describe (flings fire hydrant/sewer lid/drywall/hot dog stall/aunt may/wait what?). I'll check later to see if I can find the post or dig up my notes.
  • MawtfulMawtful Posts: 1,646 Chairperson of the Boards
    Ok here it is. I wrote this up a while back, so I've made a few adjustments to account for recent changes & tweaked abilities again. I'm still not 100% satisfied, but I like it conceptually. Also, please excuse my huge preamble. The tl;dr version is web tiles stun for 1 turn.

    Spider-Man is not a support hero.
    Spider-Man is a fighter.
    He's often punching above his weight (because he runs his mouth off all the time), but he doesn't give up. He fights; and he (mostly) comes out victorious. It's a metaphor for Peter Parker, who is also punching above his weight or trying to overcome huge odds stacked against him in life.

    I've always thought that Spider-Man could be reworked as a hybrid character. Even The Hood gets a huge damage nuke, so it can't be out of the ordinary for Spider-Man to get *something*. In remaking Spider-Man, I wanted to focus on choice. It's a central theme in Spidey's origin story; the phrase "With great power there must also come—great responsibility!" is often presented as a kind of choice for Peter Parker, so I wanted that to come through in the way the character plays. I think Kamala Khan has shown that it is possible to create a character with a hybrid moveset which some people want to focus on the offensive capabilities and some people want to focus on the support capabilities. It's my hope that Spider-Man could end up with a similarly effective hybrid moveset. I've tried to have everything tie back into a cohesive and coherent core. There are some decisions or choices I make where it won't be immediately obvious as to why - just keep reading.

    Increase Health
    Spider-Man's health seems to be hindered a little due to the fact that he had a healing power. I'm not going to give him any heals, so I think he needs a slight increase.

    healthpack.png 9,265
    This puts him on the same tier as Cyclops.

    Web Tiles
    What's the point in reworking a single character if you don't also fiddle with the core mechanic of the game? I guess we won't know for sure, because I figure it's time to make Web tiles mean something. Spider-Man and Venom have an additional resource to try and manage on top of AP, they've got to pump out web tiles to get the most out of their abilities. But that resource is a lot easier for your opponent to target than your AP pools. It's expensive to generate and it turns up where ever it wants and it's up to you to try and use it as best you can.

    Old: Some abilities create web tiles, some abilities with conditional effects (based on # of tiles). Web tiles server no other purpose.

    New: When a character makes a match using a web tile, they become stunned for 1 turn. Spider-Man and Venom are immune to this effect.

    Matching already ends the turn, and a 1 turn stun will expire on that teams next turn anyway, so by itself this shouldn't change the flow of the game. The idea here is that web tiles now act like traps you can see. (That sounds like a J Jonah Jameson line, "WEB TILES: TRAPS YOU CAN SEE! PARKER? WHAT ARE YOU STILL DOING HERE? GET ME SOME PHOTOS OF WEBS!")

    Abilities
    redflag.pngHere comes Spider-Man! (Active Red, 9 AP)
    Spider-Man lines up a swinging kick, or pummels an enemy before ducking away. If the target is incapacitated, Spider-Man winds up and really let's them have it.
    Deals X damage. If the target is stunned, deal Y damage instead.

    Rank 2: Increases damage against stunned targets.
    Rank 3: Also creates 1 web tile.
    Rank 4: Increases base damage.
    Rank 5: If no web tiles exist, create 3, otherwise create 1.
    At Max Level: Deals 1305 damage, or 3150 damage if the target is stunned.

    Red abilities traditionally deal damage, with some condition for dealing additional damage. This is a pretty straight forward red ability. I think it's expensive to use for the base damage, but it's competitvely costed if the target is stunned. Now it makes sense why I would want web tiles to stun people!

    greenflag.pngThwip, Thwip, Thwip! (Active Green, 7 AP)
    Spider-Man fires a volley of web bolts, latching on to fire hydrants, manhole covers, hotdog stands... whatever objects are in reach - and flings them at his opponent!
    Convert two random basic tiles to web tiles. Swap two random web tiles and destroy the adjacent tiles after they are swapped. Deals X damage per tile destroyed.

    Rank 2: Increase damage.
    Rank 3: Convert 3 random basic tiles.
    Rank 4: Swap 3 random web tiles.
    Rank 5: Convert 2 selected basic tiles and 2 additional random web tiles.

    Random swapping keeps the cost down; damage should be higher than average match damage, but not by too much.
    Green damaging abilities often have some kind of tile generation as an additional effect.
    Alternatively, make this ability Black.

    yellowflag.pngFriendly Neighborhood Spider-Man (Passive Yellow)
    Spider-Man cannot be stunned by matching web tiles.
    When Spider-Man is targeted by an ability; if 3 or more web tiles exist, convert 1 into a strength Y protect tile; otherwise, create 1 web tile.

    Rank 2: If no web tiles exist, creates 2. Increases strength of protect tile.
    Rank 3: Converts web tile when 2 or more exist.
    Rank 4: If no web tiles exist, creates 3. Increases strength of protect tile.
    Rank 5: Converts web tile when 1 or more exist.

    I never understood why matching Purple set off his Spider Senses before. This does require Spider-Man to get in front of his allies more often, but he has a larger health pool now, so that shouldn't be too much of a problem.
    Alternatively, make this ability Blue.

    Webs are now very much a part of how Spider-Man works. Each of his abilities uses webs in some way, and they're now more than just decoration on the board. As much as I like ability colours which match the character's own colour scheme, I tried to pick the colours which best represented how the abilities work. If you'd rather match a colour scheme, please consider the alternate Red, Black, Blue.
    In the end, my take on Spider-Man is much more of an attacker, however I think he could equally find a spot on a team as a support with his ability to generate stuns and protect tiles.
  • MalcrofMalcrof GLOBAL_MODERATORS Posts: 5,971 Chairperson of the Boards
    Mawtful wrote:

    New: When a character makes a match using a web tile, they become stunned for 1 turn. Spider-Man and Venom are immune to this effect.

    Matching already ends the turn, and a 1 turn stun will expire on that teams next turn anyway, so by itself this shouldn't change the flow of the game. The idea here is that web tiles now act like traps you can see. (That sounds like a J Jonah Jameson line, "WEB TILES: TRAPS YOU CAN SEE! PARKER? WHAT ARE YOU STILL DOING HERE? GET ME SOME PHOTOS OF WEBS!")

    Abilities
    redflag.pngHere comes Spider-Man! (Active Red, 9 AP)
    Spider-Man lines up a swinging kick, or pummels an enemy before ducking away. If the target is incapacitated, Spider-Man winds up and really let's them have it.
    Deals X damage. If the target is stunned, deal Y damage instead.

    Rank 2: Increases damage against stunned targets.
    Rank 3: Also creates 1 web tile.
    Rank 4: Increases base damage.
    Rank 5: If no web tiles exist, create 3, otherwise create 1.
    At Max Level: Deals 1305 damage, or 3150 damage if the target is stunned.

    Red abilities traditionally deal damage, with some condition for dealing additional damage. This is a pretty straight forward red ability. I think it's expensive to use for the base damage, but it's competitvely costed if the target is stunned. Now it makes sense why I would want web tiles to stun people!

    Really like this ability re-work, that is definitely the spirit of Spidey. For the stun, is it enemy match or any match? If it is enemy match only, i say remove that part and leave his blue alone to stun. If it is any match (you matching the tile stuns the enemy as well), then it is good to go.. Also what happens if you make a match with multiple web tiles?
  • MawtfulMawtful Posts: 1,646 Chairperson of the Boards
    Malcrof wrote:
    Really like this ability re-work, that is definitely the spirit of Spidey. For the stun, is it enemy match or any match? If it is enemy match only, i say remove that part and leave his blue alone to stun. If it is any match (you matching the tile stuns the enemy as well), then it is good to go.. Also what happens if you make a match with multiple web tiles?

    My original idea was that changing Web tiles like that would come alongside Spider-Man and Venom would be reworked at the same time. So webs would stun any character which makes a match with a web - except for Spider-Man and Venom. The stun would be for 1 "turn" only, but since making a match usually ends your turn, that character would be able to act on the next turn anyway. Only a match-5 lets you make another match, so I felt that would add a little bit of tactics to the web tiles. For example, if I can make a purple match 5 with Iron Fist, but one of those tiles is webbed, then I would get the AP I needed to use his purple, but he would be stunned and I'd have to wait a turn. I'd still be able to use my other characters, but I might try and find a way to break up that match 5 while making a different move instead. Multiple webs in one match would not matter, the stun would be for 1 turn only. If it stacked then web tiles would be quite powerful and any abilities which created them would probably need to be bumped up in cost by 1 AP or 2.

    Obviously I haven't play tested this at all, so in reality it might not work how I imagine.

    I think your suggestion to leave his Blue as it is currently could work if we ignore the idea of web tile stuns, then we could maybe give him this red attack instead of web bandages, keep his current blue stun, and maybe a slight improvement to Spider Senses (I still like the idea of converting web tiles into protect tiles).
  • MalcrofMalcrof GLOBAL_MODERATORS Posts: 5,971 Chairperson of the Boards
    Spider senses should increase the match 3 damage for his team for x turns, countdown tile. They would help his team attack more effectively.
  • StarshatterStarshatter Posts: 63 Match Maker
    Stole some of the good ideas posted her and integrated them into my own thoughts...

    Spider-Man uses his webs not only to entangle foes but also disarm them. So I could see a stun/ap steal move set. These things are usually blue.

    blueflag.png Thwip 3AP (totally stole this, great power name icon_e_biggrin.gif )
    Spider-Man attacks a his foes with webbing, stunning and disarming them
    1) stun current target for 1 turn, steal 1 red AP, place1 web tile
    2) stun current target for 2 turns, steal 1 red AP, place 1 web tile (costs 5 AP)
    3) stun current target for 2 turns, steal 2 red AP, place 1 web tile (costs 7 AP)
    4) stun current target for 2 turns and a 2nd target for 1 turn, steal 2 red AP, place 1 web tile (costs 9 AP)
    5) stun all enemies for 2 turns, steal 2 red AP, place 2 web tiles (costs 11 AP)

    His spider senses should be more a more heightened sense of awareness than Electra has, why not incorporate her ability to dodge and counter attack.

    blackflag.png Tingling Sensation (passive)
    Spider-Mans heightened awareness allows him to dodge enemy attacks and retaliate
    1) if there's at least 1 web tile on the board the attack to Spider-Man is negated and a web tile is destroyed dealing damage
    2) also gains 1 blue AP
    3) damage of web tile destroyed doubles
    4) gains 2 blue AP
    5) damage of web tile destroyed triples

    Spidey likes theatrics. Embarrassing his enemies as often as possible. So I think an attack that is both effective and a bit comical fits the bill nicely.

    redflag.png Swing Batter Batter! 12 AP
    Spider-Man grabs a foe with webbing and swings them around the battlefield, knocking them into their teammates.
    1) throws the target enemy around the battle field. Deals 1000 damage and creates 1 web tile
    2) deals 1500 to target and 500 to 1 other enemy. Creates 1 web tile.
    3) deals 2000 to target and 1000 to 1 other enemy. Creates 1 web tile.
    4) deals 2500 to target, 1500 to second enemy, 1000 to third enemy. Creates 1 web tile.
    5) deals 3000 to target and 2000 to all other enemies. Creates 2 web tiles.

    I tried to make his powers fluid to match his fighting style where 1 move leads into the next.
    Plus it gives him a unique power set. The closest would be Psylocke and Hulkbuster who sport Red/Black/Blue movesets
    This would also come with a health upgrade.
  • MalcrofMalcrof GLOBAL_MODERATORS Posts: 5,971 Chairperson of the Boards

    Spidey likes theatrics. Embarrassing his enemies as often as possible. So I think an attack that is both effective and a bit comical fits the bill nicely.

    redflag.png Swing Batter Batter! 12 AP
    Spider-Man grabs a foe with webbing and swings them around the battlefield, knocking them into their teammates.
    1) throws the target enemy around the battle field. Deals 1000 damage and creates 1 web tile
    2) deals 1500 to target and 500 to 1 other enemy. Creates 1 web tile.
    3) deals 2000 to target and 1000 to 1 other enemy. Creates 1 web tile.
    4) deals 2500 to target, 1500 to second enemy, 1000 to third enemy. Creates 1 web tile.
    5) deals 3000 to target and 2000 to all other enemies. Creates 2 web tiles.

    This needs to work off his stun. If a target is stunned it does x more damage, or only does whole team damage when target is stunned (they can't wiggle free, so they become a perfect projectile)
  • StarshatterStarshatter Posts: 63 Match Maker
    @malcrof

    Ya I was thinking about that too... Was also thinking of adding a enemy countdown timer increaser to the black ability to make it more functional. I'll do some thinking and edit my post.
  • StarshatterStarshatter Posts: 63 Match Maker
    3 STAR SPIDER-MAN

    blueflag.png String Em Up - 3AP
    1) stuns target, places a 2 turn countdown tile. Stunned condition deactivates upon countdown tile completing timer or being destroyed.
    2) places a 3 turn countdown tile 4ap
    3) places a 4 turn countdown tile 5ap
    4) places a 5 turn countdown tile 6ap
    5) places a 5 turn countdown tile for the target enemy and 1 turn countdown tiles for each additional enemy 7ap

    blackflag.png Tingling Sensation -Passive
    At the beginning of each turn, if there are no sensory tiles on the board Spider-Man creates one. If the lead character would take significant damage the damage is negated and the sensory tile destroyed instead.

    1) sensory tile destroyed if damage greater than 50% of max health for lead character allies, 45% of max health for Spider-Man if he is in front
    2) 45% for allies 40% for Spider-Man
    3) 40% for allies 35% for Spider-Man
    4) 35% for allies 30% for Spider-Man
    5) 30% for allies 25% for Spider-Man

    redflag.png Mind Your Surroundings- 12AP
    Spider-Man assaults the enemy with anything he can get his webs on, be it enemy weapons, debris, rocks, or his enemies themselves. Destroys random tiles on the board to use as projectiles and depletes the enemy's AP pool by 1 of each tile destroyed according to color. Stunned targets receive double damage.
    1) destroys 3 tiles. Each tile does 200(400) damage. Hit each enemy equally.
    2) destroys 4 tiles. Each tile does 250(500) damage. Hits the target with 2. Hits remaining enemies with 1 each.
    3) destroys 5 tiles. Each tile does 300(600) damage. Hits the front 2 enemies with 2 tiles each. Hits remaining enemy with 1.
    4) destroys 6 tiles. Each tile does 400(800) damage. Hits target with 3 tiles. 2nd with 2 tiles. 3rd with 1 tile.
    5) destroys 9 tiles. Each tile does 500(1000) damage. Hits target with 4 tiles, 2nd with 3 tiles, 3rd with 2 tiles.
  • I don't like current Spidey's flavor at all. Healing and protect tiles make zero sense for him.

    How overpowered would it be if Spider Sense was a passive that negated damage from active abilities targeting Spidey specifically? Spider Sense Is all about sensing danger and so it being something that prevents ability damage but has no effect on match damage makes sense. It also makes more sense for it to only protect Spider-Man.

    I would like a set up where he's Purple/Red/Blue. Purple is a passive that prevents direct ability damage targeting Spider-Man but not the other effects of the ability. So LThor Red if targeting Spider-Man would do no damage but would generate yellow tiles still. Torch's red wouldn't do the base damage but would do the damage from the destroyed red tiles.

    Blue would be a cheap, short, single enemy stun. And red would be a single target damage spell that did more damage against stunned enemies but removed their stun. I would just get rid of the web tile mechanic but if you wanted to keep it I could see maybe adding an effect to his purple where if his purple activates when there are a certain number of web tiles on the board it destroys them to stun the enemy.
  • Is it just me who think the Spiderman ( three stars ) should have the powers reformulated? , because I think an injustice the most popular character in the Marvel become a mere supporting character without any firepower , in my opinion should have at least one power that inflict damage. I could even keep the web bandages , and give a little reformulated in spider sense, and replace the blue cover for damage caused . This is my opinion ...
  • fight4thedreamfight4thedream GLOBAL_MODERATORS Posts: 1,444 Chairperson of the Boards
    You are not the only one comrade: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=19292

    #Your friendly neighborhood Buff Spidey Brigade
  • WarbringaWarbringa Posts: 1,225 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2015
    How about some sort of Web Trap yellow power? It would create a new web trap tile and would also utilize his normal web tiles (or Venoms). I agree that healing other doesn't seem to be a spidey gimmick.

    AP 7 yellowflag.png

    Rank 1 - Places a hidden web trap tile on a random, basic tile. If the opponent matches the tiles, deals x damage. If you match the tile deals 1/2 x damage. Also places 1 web tile on a basic tile. (ala Daredevil but probably not as high of damage)
    Rank 2 - Increases x damage.
    Rank 3 - Destroy 2 random web tiles. (Gain AP and deal damage)
    Rank 4 - Increase x damage and places 2 additional web tiles (total of 3 web tiles when used). AP power cost increases to 8 yellowflag.png
    Rank 5 - Destroy 3 random web tiles and Spider-man gains y health for each web tile destroyed in this manner. AP power cost increases 10 yellowflag.png

    So the power is somewhat similar to Daredevils but wouldn't be nearly as attack based. It only ever generates 1 web trap tile per use but if you get it rolling it can produce extra AP plus eventually some level of healing at rank 5 for Spiderman. In addition it would give web tiles a use in the game again!
  • MalcrofMalcrof GLOBAL_MODERATORS Posts: 5,971 Chairperson of the Boards
    Why not just use web tiles like IW's bubbles, make him a mini IW. He can web someone out of the way of an attack.
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