Switchman wrote: Most people knock Loki for being 100% defense/support, but the dude is an offensive powerhouse when teamed with Patch. They have some of THE best 2 char synergy in the game.
shade_tree wrote: Too bad the AI doesn't know how to use that synergy on defense, though.
Lerysh wrote: Hoods steal is also conditional based on board make up. Loki is better on both Offense and Defense, he has slightly more HP and he causes sub optimal play by the player if they choose not to take the 4s OR if they take the 4s and give you AP. Hood does at least have one offensive power tho.
Phantron wrote: scottee wrote: Phantron wrote: I really have a hard time seeing how if players considered Phermone Rage and Adamantium Bones as frustrating (because you can't stop it short of never matching that color) how Loki's 'try to make all your moves as bad as possible' gameplay is going to last. Sure, it works well when you're using him and you just made some terrible moves and Loki's there to bail you out, but it's really stupid when facing him you see a great move and have to always remind yourself that you can't take it. That ability should be reserved for a boss only, and hopefully one we don't see very often either, because it's really dumb to have never be able to make a good move until he's downed. You can take the match 4/5, but it has to be selective. Does it give a move that will kill him on the next turn? Will his countdown tiles pop up on a color you'll likely be able to match 2 of them away on next turn? He definitely ups the level of thinking required. There's really not much thinking involved. If taking a match 4/5 can kill him next turn you'll do it. Otherwise, you really should never do it because even 2 Mischief tiles is likely +4 AP to him (could be as few as +2AP). You get 8 AP on a match 4, so just 2 Mischief tiles canceled out your move (you got +4 AP but so did he, so you gained nothing) and thus your move is roughly the same as losing your turn, so you'd be better off breaking up and take a +3 AP instead of +0 AP (+4 AP to you, +4 AP to them) and possibly a lot worse. Obviously some colors are worth gambling (like green) but if it's not a primary attack color there's no reason to take the risk. Note that the cascade caused by Mischief itself can be nontrivial as well. I mean, I can deal with him, but he's got the same 'lol more protect tile' ala Adamantium Bones, which from what I understand is one of the most hated abilities in the game despite doing practically nothing meaningful, and unlike Adamantium Bones, Mischief can definitely hurt you a lot. What's particularly aggrevating is when you get say a blue match 4 that you didn't even know was there and watch it blow up in your face. You shouldn't have to feel bad about lucking into a match 4 but against Loki you obviously do. Playing against Loki is quite literally 'good moves are bad and bad moves are good (or at least they won't get you killed)' and I think while that might be cool as a boss mechanism, it's not very fun as a common opponent.
scottee wrote: Phantron wrote: I really have a hard time seeing how if players considered Phermone Rage and Adamantium Bones as frustrating (because you can't stop it short of never matching that color) how Loki's 'try to make all your moves as bad as possible' gameplay is going to last. Sure, it works well when you're using him and you just made some terrible moves and Loki's there to bail you out, but it's really stupid when facing him you see a great move and have to always remind yourself that you can't take it. That ability should be reserved for a boss only, and hopefully one we don't see very often either, because it's really dumb to have never be able to make a good move until he's downed. You can take the match 4/5, but it has to be selective. Does it give a move that will kill him on the next turn? Will his countdown tiles pop up on a color you'll likely be able to match 2 of them away on next turn? He definitely ups the level of thinking required.
Phantron wrote: I really have a hard time seeing how if players considered Phermone Rage and Adamantium Bones as frustrating (because you can't stop it short of never matching that color) how Loki's 'try to make all your moves as bad as possible' gameplay is going to last. Sure, it works well when you're using him and you just made some terrible moves and Loki's there to bail you out, but it's really stupid when facing him you see a great move and have to always remind yourself that you can't take it. That ability should be reserved for a boss only, and hopefully one we don't see very often either, because it's really dumb to have never be able to make a good move until he's downed.
mgallop wrote: So, the Loki PvP makes me think that Loki has one of the biggest differences in quality between defense and offense in the game, just because the AI will always activate mischief. I haven't lost yet in the PvP despite going against multiple 290-350-350 teams, and I only have 1 defensive win, if you have Loki on offense the opponent just never has the AP to set off a power, whereas if you're attacking Loki, you can put him in front, and match 3 until you can down him.
mgallop wrote: Like, if they're constantly making match 4s and getting mischiefed, the likelihood that they grab the AP necessary for an ability goes down a bunch in my experience.