*** Squirrel Girl (Unbeatable) ***

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Comments

  • Phantron wrote:
    The only ability that definitely beats Furry Friends on green is X Force. However, Furry Friends seems to be a bit too good at cascading so that it ends up destroying itself a lot of the time before the CD is over. In this sense its usage is more like Lightning Strike than a damage dealing move.
    And lightning strike isn't exactly setting the world on fire these days.
  • ark123 wrote:
    Phantron wrote:
    The only ability that definitely beats Furry Friends on green is X Force. However, Furry Friends seems to be a bit too good at cascading so that it ends up destroying itself a lot of the time before the CD is over. In this sense its usage is more like Lightning Strike than a damage dealing move.
    And lightning strike isn't exactly setting the world on fire these days.

    Yeah, but that makes it hard to compute its value. You basically lose out on this ability if it was awesome enough to destroy itself via cascades, so what you want is cascades but not so good that you end up destroying the CDs themselves and that's just very hard for me picture how good this ability works on average conceptually. After all, sometimes it will be good enough to get a cascade that wiped itself out from the AP it gets, but how do you even model that? Getting 15 AP while losing your own tiles is probably not a great deal (Lightning Strike gets you 14), but what if it's 25? How would you even model this stuff?
  • scotteescottee Posts: 1,593 Chairperson of the Boards
    Phantron wrote:
    ark123 wrote:
    Phantron wrote:
    The only ability that definitely beats Furry Friends on green is X Force. However, Furry Friends seems to be a bit too good at cascading so that it ends up destroying itself a lot of the time before the CD is over. In this sense its usage is more like Lightning Strike than a damage dealing move.
    And lightning strike isn't exactly setting the world on fire these days.

    Yeah, but that makes it hard to compute its value. You basically lose out on this ability if it was awesome enough to destroy itself via cascades, so what you want is cascades but not so good that you end up destroying the CDs themselves and that's just very hard for me picture how good this ability works on average conceptually. After all, sometimes it will be good enough to get a cascade that wiped itself out from the AP it gets, but how do you even model that? Getting 15 AP while losing your own tiles is probably not a great deal (Lightning Strike gets you 14), but what if it's 25? How would you even model this stuff?

    You'd never be able to model also because you can increase it's efficiency by waiting to cast it until the green tiles are in a favorable position. Just like how you bast Berserker Rage when there's no green matches but at least one purple match, you cast Furry when there's no green matches available.
  • NorthernPolarityNorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    scottee wrote:
    Phantron wrote:
    ark123 wrote:
    Phantron wrote:
    The only ability that definitely beats Furry Friends on green is X Force. However, Furry Friends seems to be a bit too good at cascading so that it ends up destroying itself a lot of the time before the CD is over. In this sense its usage is more like Lightning Strike than a damage dealing move.
    And lightning strike isn't exactly setting the world on fire these days.

    Yeah, but that makes it hard to compute its value. You basically lose out on this ability if it was awesome enough to destroy itself via cascades, so what you want is cascades but not so good that you end up destroying the CDs themselves and that's just very hard for me picture how good this ability works on average conceptually. After all, sometimes it will be good enough to get a cascade that wiped itself out from the AP it gets, but how do you even model that? Getting 15 AP while losing your own tiles is probably not a great deal (Lightning Strike gets you 14), but what if it's 25? How would you even model this stuff?

    You'd never be able to model also because you can increase it's efficiency by waiting to cast it until the green tiles are in a favorable position. Just like how you bast Berserker Rage when there's no green matches but at least one purple match, you cast Furry when there's no green matches available.

    I'm programming my simulator to basically recreate the entire MPQ game engine. The efficiency of this skill can easily be modeled in both of your cases with the Simulator once I program the AI to work correctly. Phantron, the Simulator can just run this ability activating over 4 turns and count how many CD tiles survive and all that. Scottee, your case can be modeled by having the AI only cast the ability when there are no green tiles on board. Of course, this is going to take a while to implement but its closer than you two would think.
  • vudu3vudu3 Posts: 932 Critical Contributor
    vudu3 wrote:
    Also of note, I cannot confirm if the values for level 5 of The Bigger They Are are correct. I believe the OP got them from the reveal article at Marvel.com. I currently have 3 yellow covers and will get my fourth after the current PVP ends so I'll be able to confirm in the morning.
    I got my fourth yellow cover and can confirm that the base values for the fifth are 28 / 61.
  • hexad_2808 wrote:
    earthbean wrote:
    I am sorry. The Squirrel Girl is so ugly I am giving my up. She just doesn't fit in with the rest of the fellas.
    i feel exactly the same, instead of the art showing a fun character i.e. loki or dino, she looks like a creepy witch, must be her eyes.

    It's the mouth.
    I was in a round with her and Patch was in front, her in the middle...and she actually looked kinda cute. The mouth was covered up and she looked more cartoonishly fun. Kinda cute and cheeky.
    Then you see her full face and that mouth is just overly sized.

    Thing is, the artist (from what I can tell) seems more comfortable with realistic styles. Drawing a cartoon realistically activates the uncanny valley sensor in your brain. So she needed to be either drawn as a real person, or drawn as a cartoon. The half-and-half is what makes her creepy.

    That and her GIGANTIC SCARY MOUTH.

    She-Hulk also suffers from Muppet Mouth Syndrome
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    After looking through my roster, I will for sure max her purple. If I need a specialized special tile nuker I can grab her. Daredevil's purple is nice and he does destroy the tiles, but it costs 10 to SG's 9 and her base damage of her skill is more than Daredevil's if he blows up 5 tiles, when you add the bonus damage she far outstrips him, who cares if you blow up Daken's tiles if he's not dead and just regenerates, Squirrel Girl will make sure he's gone.

    I"m still up in the air about green vs. yellow. I really see benefits to both but for me the only 2 options are 3/5/5 or 5/5/3. I'm still trying to figure out some PvE pairings for her.

    The obvious is Patch which then forces her into a 5/5/3 role and those 2 play very nice with each other.

    My top PvE guys are Blade/Falcon/Patch/Daken/Captain America/Deadpool/Thor/Black Panther. Does squirrel girl fit in here? Unless a guy has a better purple I will always run her 5/5/3 or 3/5/5
    Blade--want her 5/3/5
    Falcon--3/5/5
    Daken--3/5/5
    Patch--5/5/3
    Captain--3/5/5
    Deadpool--5/3/5 or 3/5/5 Deadpool's purple is better but expensive
    Thor--3/5/5 why would I ever use her yellow over his.
    BP--3/5/5 his strike tiles are better plus I still have his blue
    So currently her best use for me is 3/5/5 since it works best with more. My other 3 that I'm still working on maxing either ISO or covers that I think will be heavy PvE guys are Luke Cage/Human Torch/Rocket and Groot. If I add them into the mix
    Luke Cage--3/5/5
    Human Torch--3/5/5
    Rocket and Groot--3/5/5 you could argue 5/3/5 but as said, purple can be a game changer

    So in the end, it's obvious that 3/5/5 plays the best with my current roster as the only strong green users are Patch and Thor and of those 2 only Patch doesn't like the 3/5/5 build, but it's not like it makes them incompatible. While I cannot argue anyone going 5/5/3 to me if I really, really need protect tiles, I'll go with Captain America. The Squirell Girl 5/5/3 or 3/5/5 is very similar to the C.Mags update. Many people argued a 5/3/5 or a 5/5/3 because his shields were very solid at level 5 or people said the upgrade wasn't huge from 3 to 5 red (trust me, 5 red is 10x better than 3, 5 red kills people) and considering mine was 5/5/3 to start off after the buff/nerf I got to see the him on both ends, and guess what? Having blue maxed was vastly more important than shields, because having a guy dead 1 to 2 turns sooner is better than just taking less damage for those 2 turns. So Squirrel Girl is no different, causing more cascades and damage from her green is going to be vastly more helpful than stronger shields. I just need shields strong enough to block a majority of match damage, my damage will make sure I stop taking damage at all.
  • simonsezsimonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    I'm still trying to figure out some PvE pairings for her
    I tried, and gave up. I'm not able to come up with a scenario where I'd want to use her, unless half my roster is already gone. I finally decided not to bother leveling her for now, and just use the loaner in PvP.
  • hurculeshurcules Age Unconfirmed Posts: 519
    simonsez wrote:
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    I'm still trying to figure out some PvE pairings for her
    I tried, and gave up. I'm not able to come up with a scenario where I'd want to use her, unless half my roster is already gone. I finally decided not to bother leveling her for now, and just use the loaner in PvP.
    Daken/Squirrel Girl/Falcon was fantastic for me against goons and easy non-goons. Green charges Furry Friends and produces strike tiles, Yellow charges The Bigger They Are and inspires strike tiles, Daken tanks purple to get Nuts From Above ready, and blue for Red Wing and Chemical Reaction.

    Substitute Daken for Blade for variety.
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    hurcules wrote:
    simonsez wrote:
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    I'm still trying to figure out some PvE pairings for her
    I tried, and gave up. I'm not able to come up with a scenario where I'd want to use her, unless half my roster is already gone. I finally decided not to bother leveling her for now, and just use the loaner in PvP.
    Daken/Squirrel Girl/Falcon was fantastic for me against goons and easy non-goons. Green charges Furry Friends and produces strike tiles, Yellow charges The Bigger They Are and inspires strike tiles, Daken tanks purple to get Nuts From Above ready, and blue for Red Wing and Chemical Reaction.

    Substitute Daken for Blade for variety.

    Yeah, pairing her with Daken is really good for her, (seriously who doesn't Daken pair well with?). But I agree with simonsez, she doesn't scream USE ME like other characters. Don't get me wrong, I actually think she' s a solid mid-tier character, she's got solid defense or offense depending on preference, but she doesn't do anything siginficantly better than anyone else to justify bumping a top tier PvE character. She's basically a Heroic PvE character or a very nich anti special tile character. She is not on my must level list which if anyone cares is currently.
    4hor
    Loki
    Luke Cage
    Rocket and Groot
    Fury
    Mystique
    Human Torch
  • It seemed like when SQ's green was destroying basic tiles, it wasn't getting the strike tile bonus from my Daken strike tiles.

    Is that the intended behavior?
  • simonsezsimonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
    hurcules wrote:
    Substitute Daken for Blade for variety.
    Or substitute Blade for SG for a much better formation icon_e_smile.gif
  • MojoWildMojoWild Posts: 765 Critical Contributor
    I don't think the random destruction of basic tiles cause damage? If not, the the strike tiles wouldn't be able to add damage.
  • I'm pretty sure it did damage, I remember the small damage amount applied to the goon shown on screen when I was expecting a large number due to the 4-5 strike tiles I had on the board.

    I can re-check later when I'm not at work.
  • GrumpySmurf1002GrumpySmurf1002 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 3,511 Chairperson of the Boards
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    She is not on my must level list which if anyone cares is currently.
    4hor
    Loki
    Luke Cage
    Rocket and Groot
    Fury
    Mystique
    Human Torch

    This is interesting because I think I can find more uses for CoverSquirrel than I can for Torch, who is basically a red dump, albeit a good one. There's a few red dumpers, but there's not a ton of purple killers, and she can stand alone as a green user pretty well to boot.

    I think I'd level her before Mystique too, but it's close. Mystique doesn't need levels as much as she needs 5 blue for the mMags combo.
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    She is not on my must level list which if anyone cares is currently.
    4hor
    Loki
    Luke Cage
    Rocket and Groot
    Fury
    Mystique
    Human Torch

    This is interesting because I think I can find more uses for CoverSquirrel than I can for Torch, who is basically a red dump, albeit a good one. There's a few red dumpers, but there's not a ton of purple killers, and she can stand alone as a green user pretty well to boot.

    I think I'd level her before Mystique too, but it's close. Mystique doesn't need levels as much as she needs 5 blue for the mMags combo.

    Lol, I only say torch because he's been stuck at lvl 147 for me for ages, because well as you can see the list of new characters that keep coming out push him further down. If he was not that high I think I would put Squirrel Girl ahead of him.
  • Yeah after seeing what every cover does at 5 I'm going to keep her lvl40. I see no reason to ever take her into battle.
  • I checked it again. So the strike tiles are working but the damage is still lower than I expected.

    I think what's happening is that calculation is off because the total base damage is divided by some number. When I used SQ green without strike tiles, the damage was very low (under 100). It was as if the damage calculator only used the damage from one tile instead of all 3.

    If the devs can verify my hypothesis and fix this, that'd be great.
  • Were the damage numbers consistent with the normal cascade damage penalty?

    Match damage is normally reduced by 25% for each match in a cascade beyond the first, with the penalty stacking multiplicatively (e.g. 5th match in a cascade will only deal 75%^4=31.6% damage). It is possible that damage due to tile destruction is treated as match-1 damage in a cascade and is thus receiving this penalty.

    Edit: There is also the possibility that the damage of the destroyed tiles is based on Squirrel Girl's tile damage, rather than the apparent owner of the tile.
  • NorthernPolarityNorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    5/5/3 seems optimal for the people who optimize for PvP (which they shouldnt do!): yellow and purple go off far more often on defense than green ever will, and since XF / LadyThor's optimal for PvP, theres no place for green.
    ark123 wrote:
    Yeah after seeing what every cover does at 5 I'm going to keep her lvl40. I see no reason to ever take her into battle.

    If you're at the point where you already have all your roster fleshed out anyways, having her at 135 is pretty useful for her PvP defense: yellow as a priority color screws over opposing surgicals, and her yellow on defense can be pretty damn annoying. Will definitely get you less attacks than a level 40 one.
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