Why is scaling going down on the normal mode?

Unknown · January 2015

I've been keeping track of my nodes in Simulator Basic, and to no one's surprise the hard mode nodes are going up constantly. But the normal nodes are actually going down. When the new bracket started there are some enemies I'm not sure I can take out in one X Force in the essentials (slightly more than 5K HP), but those guys only have 3500 HP now. How can this possibly make sense? Is the community cleaning up the hard nodes but somehow wiping on normal? I think the first node on normal started at level 20 and actually went down to level 12 in the first sub. I'm not someone to complain about scaling, but isn't the direction of those levels exactly opposite of what you'd expect?

Dragon_Nexus · January 2015

I started tonight with the bottom right Required node at around level 100. A couple of hours later it dropped to about 80, then after a couple of fights it went down to about 62. But after a couple of other rounds it went back up to 77.

Weird. Wish the Hard mode could do that though. Especially when I did that Ragnarok/She Hulk/Punisher fight and lost with She-Hulk being the only remaining character with 23 HP left ¬¬

Unknown · January 2015

I'm guessing it's quite possible that the essentials are going down from people wiping to them even on normal, but surely in this case anything in hard ought to be dropping even faster?

Unknown · January 2015

No idea, but I like it.

Unknown · January 2015

Phantron wrote:

I'm guessing it's quite possible that the essentials are going down from people wiping to them even on normal, but surely in this case anything in hard ought to be dropping even faster?

Why would we assume that normal and hard have the same "thresholds" for how player performance affects scaling? If anything I would assume the opposite to be the case

Unknown · January 2015

gamar wrote:

Phantron wrote:

I'm guessing it's quite possible that the essentials are going down from people wiping to them even on normal, but surely in this case anything in hard ought to be dropping even faster?

Why would we assume that normal and hard have the same "thresholds" for how player performance affects scaling? If anything I would assume the opposite to be the case

I thought about that but it's hard for me to see any measure of performance on hard that'd ever come to the 'community scaling is going up' conclusion unless it's something like '100% of players attempting hard are winning easily, all 5 of them'.

Moon Roach · January 2015

Come now, it's obvious.

Friday afternoon in the One True Time Zone, someone forgot to type in the numbers 4, 8, 15, 16, 23 and 42 before going home for the weekend.

Expect level 666 opponents just before the end of the event.

Nellobee · January 2015

Moon Roach wrote:

Come now, it's obvious.

Friday afternoon in the One True Time Zone, someone forgot to type in the numbers 4, 8, 15, 16, 23 and 42 before going home for the weekend.

Expect level 666 opponents just before the end of the event.

*writes "NOT PENNY'S SHARD" on hand, dies*

Bowgentle · January 2015

Hard nodes aren't going down because the only people who are even attempting them are the guys who know for sure they can beat them.
So probably 95% of the attempts result in a flawless victory, the other 5% are wipes due to a bad board.

Whereas in the normal sub everyobdy thinks they can beat the nodes, so many, many more people wipe - which drives down scaling.

Only explanation I can think of, and I don't even know why _I_ have to come up with an explanation for our resident PVE robot who knows everything, all the time, always.

loroku · January 2015

Phantron wrote:

I've been keeping track of my nodes in Simulator Basic, and to no one's surprise the hard mode nodes are going up constantly. But the normal nodes are actually going down. When the new bracket started there are some enemies I'm not sure I can take out in one X Force in the essentials (slightly more than 5K HP), but those guys only have 3500 HP now. How can this possibly make sense? Is the community cleaning up the hard nodes but somehow wiping on normal? I think the first node on normal started at level 20 and actually went down to level 12 in the first sub. I'm not someone to complain about scaling, but isn't the direction of those levels exactly opposite of what you'd expect?

My guess is because no one is really playing them.

In other words, scaling may be based off a sub-wide standard and not just on individual nodes, like we've assumed (or they did previously and recently changed?). Since the harder nodes are worth 3-10 times as much, people are concentrating on those to get the most bang for the time expended - and not killing the super-easy nodes down like they might normally do. The hard nodes are getting hit over and over, causing the scaling to go up - but since relatively the trivial nodes aren't getting hit so hard, the "average" goes up but that means the lower end nodes actually go down.

Anyway, this is just a complete shot in the dark - in truth I've no idea. But I see the same thing.

simonsez · January 2015

Bowgentle wrote:

So probably 95% of the attempts result in a flawless victory, the other 5% are wipes due to a bad board.

If only... more like 25% chance of a win where Mystique won't need a health pack, 50% chance of a win where she will, and 25% chance of a wipe or narrow win where everybody comes out needing a health pack.

As for the normal scaling dropping, am I the only one not seeing this? Are you guys in an early shard? In the last set of subs, the scaling did start to go down at the very end (I assumed people were wiping more trying to squeeze as much as they could out of the final grind), but I'm not seeing any of that here yet.

Bowgentle · January 2015

simonsez wrote:

As for the normal scaling dropping, am I the only one not seeing this? Are you guys in an early shard? In the last set of subs, the scaling did start to go down at the very end (I assumed people were wiping more trying to squeeze as much as they could out of the final grind), but I'm not seeing any of that here yet.

I'm in shard 2, and my Simulation 10 in Normal is at 124 right now. It was at 168 at one point, I think.

simonsez · January 2015

I'm in S4, and it just started dropping... down to 137 so far

Unknown · January 2015

I think there is something wrong with scaling in shards and how many people are playing and their rosters. Both Normal and Hard scaling seems weird.

rixmith · January 2015

I believe this is normal behavior. In most every PvE there are several easy nodes and several hard nodes. The easy nodes scale down, the hard ones scale up. It just seems like in this one the nodes are split across the two subs instead of all being in the same sub.

Unknown · January 2015

Nellobee wrote:

Moon Roach wrote:

Come now, it's obvious.

Friday afternoon in the One True Time Zone, someone forgot to type in the numbers 4, 8, 15, 16, 23 and 42 before going home for the weekend.

Expect level 666 opponents just before the end of the event.

*writes "NOT PENNY'S SHARD" on hand, dies*

NOW I HAVE A SAD! Thank you SO much.
/mutter

dkffiv · January 2015

simonsez wrote:

Bowgentle wrote:

So probably 95% of the attempts result in a flawless victory, the other 5% are wipes due to a bad board.

If only... more like 25% chance of a win where Mystique won't need a health pack, 50% chance of a win where she will, and 25% chance of a wipe or narrow win where everybody comes out needing a health pack.

As for the normal scaling dropping, am I the only one not seeing this? Are you guys in an early shard? In the last set of subs, the scaling did start to go down at the very end (I assumed people were wiping more trying to squeeze as much as they could out of the final grind), but I'm not seeing any of that here yet.

Most of these rotations I'm completing all 3 hard mode essentials with no kits needed. Nodes are 320 / 320 / 350. Only time I have issues is if I cascade into 4 matches and Loki steals all my boosted AP.

simonsez · January 2015

dkffiv wrote:

Most of these rotations I'm completing all 3 hard mode essentials with no kits needed.

Using what? The problem I'm having is that Mystique is tanking so many colors, by the time I get things rolling, she's usually taken a lot of match damage, if not worse.

squirrel1120 · January 2015

I haven't even completed every node in hard. I did the juggy branch for 2k iso, happy to only have to go at it once with stormneto. Haven't done essentials except one, and only did the first node on the right branch. No repeats at all. Essentials with a sparsely covered mystique are just not fun, and the rest of them are a gamble to even win also. Then with trying to boost the sim pvp score, climb in patch pvp... hard just isn't worth it.

Normal sub seems worth it, but a few of those fights are insidiously harder than they seem and have wiped me out unexpectedly. A blue cascade to GT resulted in patch stunned, and I should have bailed, but I had 15 red ap and figured when he came out he'd 1shot her to finish. Instead the entire team stun locked and she then proceeded to yellow & red the entire team to death before any stun ended. Just sat there like, "wut the wut?!" Despite being a 4 color team of 70's, obw, deadpool and psylocke have wiped me, as have thor, Mags and rocket n groot. Being short of a power for red and yellow for 20 turns with lcap and im40 will do that though.

I personally can't wait until the simulator is done, because I doubt sentry is going to help much except as a meat shield.

Unknown · January 2015

I have noticed that the scaling does seem to go down for normal mode though I am not exactly sure when it starts. As for hard I believe the general consensus is correct in that the reason it is not going down is that not many people are attempting them. I only cleared 2 of the essentials 2x and the first storm + 2 goons in the 2nd sub and got 10k+ points which I believe got me top 20 in my bracket. I went for 8+ hours between clears in hard mode and only dropped a few ranks which tells me that at least in my bracket there went that many people participating in it. The scaling going down in normal mode really does help save health packs though.

Why is scaling going down on the normal mode?

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