POLL: Powers where L5 is overly mandatory

Nonce Equitaur 2
Nonce Equitaur 2 Posts: 2,269 Chairperson of the Boards
edited October 2014 in MPQ General Discussion
For some characters, there is a power or two that absolutely must be maxed out for the character to be respectable.

For some of these characters, some of that L5 excellence could be filtered down to lower levels, so that builds weren't so lopsided.

For example, it would be nice if a 544 Captain America could target a Countdown tile. He can't, but all other builds can. Virtually all Caps are 355, since yellowtile.png is overpriced and both redtile.png and bluetile.png are too good to pass up.

Which powers should have improvements to L2-L4, while L5 stays the same?
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Comments

  • Spoit
    Spoit Posts: 3,441 Chairperson of the Boards
    I'm suprised WR is on there, I used him perfectly fine for like a month and a half after release with only 4 green covers. Though I guess health has generally increased over time since then, since back then all the popular teams were the mid-health-tier characters like patchneto
  • h4n1s
    h4n1s Posts: 427 Mover and Shaker
    Nonce, respectfully - what is the purpose of this poll? There's a variety of polls on optimal/best builds for character, best active/passive skills per color, etc etc.

    There's always a big punchline to all of them - it always comes down to preferred play style AND team combination.

    Given an example - Xwolverine of build 553 is a killer. However go for 445 and you have very solid defender if his yellow is the only active yellow skill in your team, supported by 2 tanks (say one of them is Hulk), he's an insta-skip if you don't want to spend significant time in fight.

    If all skills would become fear-worthy at already level 3, then we eliminate this strategic concept from the game.

    On the other hand especially people in transition to 3* may confront me, that their 3* characters are useless until they are fully covered in at least one of the strong colors, but that's life, that's why we have such big variety of characters out there, so they have something to run for in the long term (carrot and the donkey)...
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Why is Dino purple not in the list? He needs 5 purple to flap fabulously.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Lvl 5 black X-Force changed my life.

    I wouldn't necessarily say it is OP because depending on the combo you run and who you are up against there is a chance that you won't generate AP. But if you're against another "green" team then it's a pretty quick take down.

    Lvl 5 green BWGS is a power I have yet to use or see in use. Almost 12k instantaneous team damage is pretty awesome and scary to think about. However by the time you've collected enough green to pull the trigger you could have fired off X-Force green twice and shaken up the board quite a bit.
  • h4n1s
    h4n1s Posts: 427 Mover and Shaker
    manosinistra wrote:
    Lvl 5 black X-Force changed my life.

    I wouldn't necessarily say it is OP because depending on the combo you run and who you are up against there is a chance that you won't generate AP. But if you're against another "green" team then it's a pretty quick take down.

    Lvl 5 green BWGS is a power I have yet to use or see in use. Almost 12k instantaneous team damage is pretty awesome and scary to think about. However by the time you've collected enough green to pull the trigger you could have fired off X-Force green twice and shaken up the board quite a bit.

    And that's the difference between 3* and 4* character. Btw - Xforce doesn't have ability which would help him gather those green - GSBW does - now try to mix her up with MHawkey (5 purple, passive) and see what happens, when GSBW purple ability goes off - match 5 -> crit tile (usually 2 of them if you are strategic minded person) + green AP -> up to 8 2-countdown tiles -> DEVASTATION!
  • simonsez
    simonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
    I'm staying away from this poll because I don't want any devs to get the idea that they should start nerfing L5 abilities...
  • CrookedKnight
    CrookedKnight Posts: 2,579 Chairperson of the Boards
    L5 Surgical Strike takes it from a strong board-shaking power to one of the top three moves in the game. Meanwhile Sniper Rifle L4 is horrifically overpriced, perhaps second only to Ballistic Salvo, while L5 is only mildly so.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    I don't think abilities that merely add more damage at higher levels are "required" It takes changing how the ability works to make it that impressive.
    Also surprised hulk black and hood yellow weren't on the list.
  • famousfoxking
    famousfoxking Posts: 245 Tile Toppler
    Nonce Equitaur 2 wrote:
    For some characters, there is a power or two that absolutely must be maxed out for the character to be respectable.

    For some of these characters, some of that L5 excellence could be filtered down to lower levels, so that builds weren't so lopsided.

    I disagree. Level 5 of a power should be AWESOME. Surgical Strike is a perfect example of a well designed power in this regard. The problem isn't that some powers are too awesome at level 5, it's that too many powers aren't awesome enough at level 5. Power scaling from 1 to 3 should be pretty steady, with level 4 being a significant step up from 3, and 5 being a significant step from 4. Which powers go to 5 and which stay at 3 (or 4) should be a major dilemma. There should be healthy debate about every character 5/5/3 vs 5/3/5/vs 3/5/5. This is an indicator that The Hood is actually in a pretty good place, actually. Since you can only have 2 fives, you should be really torn about which two you pick.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Wasn't going to vote either, but then saw BWGS greenflag.png
  • BearVenger
    BearVenger Posts: 456 Mover and Shaker
    famousfoxking wrote:
    For some of these characters, some of that L5 excellence could be filtered down to lower levels, so that builds weren't so lopsided.

    I disagree. Level 5 of a power should be AWESOME. Surgical Strike is a perfect example of a well designed power in this regard. The problem isn't that some powers are too awesome at level 5, it's that too many powers aren't awesome enough at level 5. Power scaling from 1 to 3 should be pretty steady, with level 4 being a significant step up from 3, and 5 being a significant step from 4. Which powers go to 5 and which stay at 3 (or 4) should be a major dilemma. There should be healthy debate about every character 5/5/3 vs 5/3/5/vs 3/5/5. This is an indicator that The Hood is actually in a pretty good place, actually. Since you can only have 2 fives, you should be really torn about which two you pick.

    Fox nails this. The bigger missed opportunity I see is when there are characters with pretty obvious or equivalent configurations (Hulk, Falcon, Psylocke, and Black Panther spring to mind). Take GSBW: Her Shotgun red is expensive and red is usually covered better by her teammates. It feels like her micro-game is "incubate until you get fifth green." Red is only there to take her from 140 to 166.

    On the other hand, Patch and X-Force have at least a few people debating on builds, and each power has a significant change from 3->4->5.

    I like it when character design necessitates a cost/benefit analysis. And at the 3*/4* level, where covers are bought or earned, these are no small decisions.

    FWIW, I think Classic Storm's five green is overrated. 1:1 ratio only makes a difference if you're banking green for a giant mega-storm (or have GSBW or Hulk at high coverage). If you're like me and fire as soon as you can, there's little difference. I moved from 5/5/3 to 4/5/4 because I felt the tiny bump in counterstrike damage would be used more often than 1:1 tile destruction. Also, as a 2*, I could always pick up a new cover through luck if I needed a respec.
  • IlDuderino
    IlDuderino Posts: 427 Mover and Shaker
    famousfoxking wrote:
    Nonce Equitaur 2 wrote:
    For some characters, there is a power or two that absolutely must be maxed out for the character to be respectable.

    For some of these characters, some of that L5 excellence could be filtered down to lower levels, so that builds weren't so lopsided.

    I disagree. Level 5 of a power should be AWESOME. Surgical Strike is a perfect example of a well designed power in this regard. The problem isn't that some powers are too awesome at level 5, it's that too many powers aren't awesome enough at level 5. Power scaling from 1 to 3 should be pretty steady, with level 4 being a significant step up from 3, and 5 being a significant step from 4. Which powers go to 5 and which stay at 3 (or 4) should be a major dilemma. There should be healthy debate about every character 5/5/3 vs 5/3/5/vs 3/5/5. This is an indicator that The Hood is actually in a pretty good place, actually. Since you can only have 2 fives, you should be really torn about which two you pick.

    The downside I see with this is that it means these characters are pretty unattractive until they are maxed - which is fine if you are at the end of the 3* transition, but less good if you are struggling through the 2* - 3* transition, doing your best with a couple of 10 cover 3*s and coming up against walls of 166 3*s who kick you in every time because they are 3/5/5, 5/3/5 or 5/5/3 and their power is disproportionly more awesome than your own
  • NotYou13
    NotYou13 Posts: 104
    famousfoxking wrote:
    Nonce Equitaur 2 wrote:
    For some characters, there is a power or two that absolutely must be maxed out for the character to be respectable.

    For some of these characters, some of that L5 excellence could be filtered down to lower levels, so that builds weren't so lopsided.

    I disagree. Level 5 of a power should be AWESOME. Surgical Strike is a perfect example of a well designed power in this regard. The problem isn't that some powers are too awesome at level 5, it's that too many powers aren't awesome enough at level 5. Power scaling from 1 to 3 should be pretty steady, with level 4 being a significant step up from 3, and 5 being a significant step from 4. Which powers go to 5 and which stay at 3 (or 4) should be a major dilemma. There should be healthy debate about every character 5/5/3 vs 5/3/5/vs 3/5/5. This is an indicator that The Hood is actually in a pretty good place, actually. Since you can only have 2 fives, you should be really torn about which two you pick.

    I'm pretty sure this is the point of Nonce's poll. There are certain abilities (Sniper Rifle is probably the most glaring) there's a relatively linear progression in power from covers 1-4, then a gigantic spike from 5.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    GSBW is the most obvious choice.

    Her green is one of the worst abilities in the game until you get it to 5.

    I'd like to propose another that isn't on this list:
    Hulk's anger.
    Without the damage, that ability is completely garbage.
    If you have a hulk with less than 5 in anger, you're wasting your time playing him. He offers no threat at all.
  • famousfoxking
    famousfoxking Posts: 245 Tile Toppler
    NotYou13 wrote:
    I'm pretty sure this is the point of Nonce's poll. There are certain abilities (Sniper Rifle is probably the most glaring) there's a relatively linear progression in power from covers 1-4, then a gigantic spike from 5.

    See, I read it as a desire to make the powers more linear, by taking some of the love at level 5 and spreading it around the lower levels. If anything, I think there are some powers that should be worse with 1-2 covers than they currently are (basically anyone who has a viable strategy of "keep this power below 3" has a power that is too good at 1 - 2 covers (MBW, OBW, IM40, I'm looking at you).
  • famousfoxking
    famousfoxking Posts: 245 Tile Toppler
    IlDuderino wrote:
    The downside I see with this is that it means these characters are pretty unattractive until they are maxed - which is fine if you are at the end of the 3* transition, but less good if you are struggling through the 2* - 3* transition, doing your best with a couple of 10 cover 3*s and coming up against walls of 166 3*s who kick you in every time because they are 3/5/5, 5/3/5 or 5/5/3 and their power is disproportionly more awesome than your own

    Doesn't that already happen? I mean, I would think it would due to the affect that # of covers has on soft level cap alone, before you even bring individual power level into the equation.
  • IamTheDanger
    IamTheDanger Posts: 1,093 Chairperson of the Boards
    Not sure why Hulk black, Patch yellow are not on the list.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Look at the difference between a softcapped 5/0/5 hood and a completely unleveled 5/5/3 hood. Covers matter a lot more than levels in many cases, enough levels can make up some of that ground but someone without the right covers nor the levels to back them up has two strikes against them.
  • CrookedKnight
    CrookedKnight Posts: 2,579 Chairperson of the Boards
    Hell, as long as I'm on offense, I'd much rather have a level 40 0/5/0 Hood than a capped 5/0/5 Hood.
  • Lidolas
    Lidolas Posts: 500
    Cryptobrancus wrote:
    Look at the difference between a softcapped 5/0/5 hood and a completely unleveled 5/5/3 hood. Covers matter a lot more than levels in many cases, enough levels can make up some of that ground but someone without the right covers nor the levels to back them up has two strikes against them.


    I keep telling my alliance that Hood doesn't need to be maxed. He just needs enough levels to survive. His blue and black (the useful part) have nothing to do with how many levels he has.

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