The Longer Term Character Reclassification

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yogi_
yogi_ Posts: 1,236 Chairperson of the Boards
edited September 2014 in MPQ General Discussion
Formerly known as "The Post Dark Reign Reclassification" and "The Everyone at the Same Level Reclassification".

Stage 1 – The Move to 100

All characters are moved to the same max. level – 100 (it’s a nice round number which gives the impression of completeness). This first stage theoretically allows for every fully levelled character to be used in a far broader way at all times (think Balance of Power PvP) – the start of truer roster diversity. ISO usage should be rejigged, so overall expenditure remains largely neutral or close to. Players with existing characters simply have them migrated automatically over to the new system. Gameplay should remain largely similar to now, with players only facing rosters similarly levelled to their own.

At this time, there will be a selection of essentially duplicated characters and devs should develop a plan to retire 1 Captain America, 1 Daken, 1 Human Torch, 1 Storm (excluding Classic) and 1 Thor and implement any minor balances required to account for the removal of the partner. A generous refund of ISO and HP should be offered and maybe the remaining one appears in a lot of cover giveaways at the time, so that people can get them more easily. Characters that have more than one variation - Black Widow, Hawkeye, Iron Man, Magneto, Storm and Wolverine – will not change for the time being.

Characters will clearly need balancing (as per the norm) and if modest changes to glaring issues can be made at this time, that should be done. Characters retain their associated stars.


Stage 2 (Part 1) – The Rebalance Start

This is the foundation for balancing characters and forms the basis of a complete character overhaul. The end goal of this is that players will have a roster full of all very usable characters and should want to level up each one up and the biggest issue will be deciding who first. There should be one iteration of each character.

I am not sure how all of the behind the scenes technical stuff works, so devs would need to ascertain the order and timeline. You might do certain elements, whole parts, individual characters or other. For example, once the new “final” character is formed and in the open, their now former version/s get retired (including the more than one iteration of Black Widow, Hawkeye, Iron Man, Magneto, Storm and Wolverine) with a generous refund of ISO and HP.

The overall character is first based upon the below background elements and for this, we have turned to the official Marvel Power Ratings - which ranks character abilities out of 7 (the higher the tier, the more able). These are the abilities that have a broad (though admittedly a little low) range across the characters.

Strength

The ability to lift weight. In MPQ, this translates to tile damage.

There are 7 (only 6 in current use) tiers of numbers. Let’s say level 7 characters have max tile damage average of 70. The 6 characters have max tile damage average is 60. Max tile damage average is 50 for the level 5 characters, 40 for the 4 characters, 3 characters get max average tile damage of 30 and the sole 2 out of 7 character has max tile damage of 20. The exact numbers here are off and I imagine the leaps between levels will be smaller, they serve the illustrative purpose.

* Hulk, Juggernaut, Sentry, She-Hulk and Thor come out on the highest level of 7 and have the highest amount of damage for each single tile swap.
* Colossus, Iron Man and Ragnarok also cause much pain on 6.
* Ares, Captain Marvel, Doctor Octopus, Loki and Ms. Marvel next on 5 out of 7, hurt a lot.
* Beast, Deadpool, Doctor Doom, Moonstone, Spider-Man, Venom and Wolverine get a 4 and hit pretty hard.
* Remainder get a 2 or 3, so get the lowest two tiers of damage per turn.


Durability

Given we now have a tangle of healing options in the game (True Healing™, not True Healing™ (aka. boost of health), post-game healing and sporadic use of health abilities in game), it’s time to look at something more consistent and justifiable.

So, let’s talk about durability. In Marvel, it’s described as “the ability to resist or recover from bodily injury” and in MPQ, this translates to character healing.

Here are the characters:

* 7 – Hulk and Juggernaut at the top level are considered “virtually indestructible” and should heal quickly.
* 6 – The “superhuman” healing Ares, Captain Marvel, Colossus, Doctor Doom, Iron Man, Invisible Woman, Loki, Ms. Marvel, Ragnarok, Sentry, She-Hulk, Thor and Venom should also have a fast healing level.
* 4 – The “regenerative” Beast, Daken, Deadpool and Wolverine, should have a moderately fast heal.
* 3 – Black Panther, Black Widow, Bullseye, Captain America, Moonstone, Psylocke and Spider-Man have “enhanced” levels.
* 2 – Daredevil, Doctor Octopus, Falcon, Hawkeye, Hood, Human Torch, Magneto, Nick Fury, Punisher, Storm and Yelena Belova have “normal” levels.

To clarify and simplify how healing is handled across the game, as a baseline, each character should automatically receive their associated level of healing both in game (as yellow bar temporary resistance) and post-game healing (recovery) – perhaps as a percentage value of the original and the higher the tier, the faster the rate.

More specifically, there 5 tiers in current use and each should be suitably set, for example:

* 7 – 5% of health each turn in game and the fastest rate of post game healing.
* 6 – 4% of health each turn in game and the 2nd fastest rate of post game healing.
* 4 – 2% of health each turn in game and the 4th fastest rate of post game healing.
* 3 – 1% of health each turn in game and the 5th fastest rate of post game healing.
* 2 – 0% of health each turn in game and the 6th fastest rate of post game healing.

These are illustrative numbers meant to represent a tiered approach only - I do not know the exact figures (they are likely to be a little lower). Character health levels may also need moderate adjustments to ensure no one became too powerful.

The values would be shown on the character screen via the roster, in the area where the colour damage is displayed (eg. a shield for in game resistance and a small red cross for post-game healing).

As an example, at the end of each turn in game Hulk earns the highest rate of yellow bar healing automatically (no player intervention – the numbers just increase like a "boost of health" ability being used) and also heals the fastest post-game. In a similar fashion, Daken regenerates automatically in game at the 4th highest rate and similar post game.

This would replace all characters healing abilities in the game.


Energy Projection

The ability to discharge energy. This relates to the level of the crit tile multiplier.

* Doctor Doom, Iron Man, Magneto and Thor and are the top group with 6 points and as they can “discharge multiple forms of energy”, get the highest level of bonus tile damage.
* Captain Marvel, Human Torch, Invisible Woman, Loki, Ms. Marvel, Psylocke, Ragnarok, Sentry and Storm get a 5 and get a high level of damage too.
* Daredevil, Hood and Moonstone come in with a 4, so get a decent boost with their bonus tiles.
* Black Panther, Black Widow and Yelena Belova get a 3 and get a modest boost.
* Remainder of characters are on 1 and only have a small bonus damage amount.


There are currently no levels of character health. None of the ratings have a good enough cross section (most overall levels were too low, one was exactly half high and half low and the only one that was almost of use, was too unrealistic) and I simply can’t fit it neatly in anywhere. I would actually consider have a single health amount for all characters (so all these surrounding factors really make a difference) or link it to their combined star rating (eg. level x 200 or 250, gives a consistent and similar range to now and these figures are below).


Stage 2 (Part 2) – The Rebalance Abilities

Once you have the outline of the character, they are then individually formed with their abilities, examples of which can be seen in an earlier classification. Characters should also lose their subtitle.

There is a summary of gameplay elements here and here and devs should work out which ones they want to keep in the game going forward, which they want to ditch and any new ones. The forum community should be involved as much as possible.

I have removed the use of passive abilities, so only active abilities remain and everything is now just abilities, all of which cost AP. It should be noted negative/ passive elements of the character will more noticeably appear in the use of abilities.

Continuing on with the Marvel Power Ratings, come both the general way the overall abilities are handled, and also two categories where quite a number of characters had very little to no impact, so they became incorporated into the more general ability area.

Fighting Ability

The final element from the is the proficiency in hand-to-hand combat. In MPQ, this translates to the variety of ways that the character cause damage to a single enemy. Abilities should generally be related to damage, offense and defence (you know, the simple direct ones).

* Ares, Daken and Wolverine on 7 are considered “masters of all forms of combat” and all have 3 influencing and different abilities. Their abilities should have powers that are either almost are too powerful or have enough negative to weigh them out.
* Black Widow, Captain America, Deadpool, Hawkeye, Nick Fury, Psylocke and Punisher are all on 6 (masters of several forms of combat), so have at least 2 strong differing abilities that more broadly affect gameplay.
* Black Panther, Bullseye, Daredevil and Yelena Belova on 5 out of 7 are “masters of a single form of combat” and have 3 decent abilities that focus broadly on the one theme.
* Every other character not specifically mentioned here is on 4 points (experienced fighter).
* Human Torch, Hood, Invisible Woman, Loki and Moonstone on 3 all have “some training”, so their unique abilities hurt not so much.
* And despite being crazily powerful in many ways, Sentry (on 2) sits alone with the most ordinary set of abilities.


Intelligence

The ability to think and process information.

* Doctor Doom and Iron Man are the highest on 6.
* Beast, Black Panther, Doctor Octopus, Loki, Magneto and Sentry come next on 5.
* Moonstone and Spider-Man come in at 4 out of 7.
* Others are at 2 and 3, so not a priority.

Speed

The ability to move over land by running or flight.

* Sentry and Thor share the top spot on 7 points.
* Captain Marvel, Doctor Doom, Human Torch, Iron Man, Magneto and Ms. Marvel come in at 5 out of 7.
* The remainder of the characters come in at 2 or 3.

These two categories have reserved for them, two particular broad types of abilities. They should impact the enemy team as a whole or benefit their team. Not sure which yet but likely to include more unique abilities such as AP generation and steal, repeating effects, board manipulation, differentiation of AP power costs.

Some early thoughts about colour use are here.

But before we go…


Stage 2 (Part 3) – Star Shuffle

Each new character is now able to reach a max level of 100 but how do they get distributed?

This stage’s aim is to move to a more accurate overall ranking system of the characters and fits somewhere alongside the implementation of “new” characters as described in the next stage.

While it would be nice to be able to remove the star ranking system all together (a better system being an integrated roster / training area where you allocate currency as you like to any character - see bottom for slight explanation), given the way the current game is set up, there has to be a way of seeing which covers can flood the game and which only come out once in a while. There should also be a simplified model of how covers are distributed.

For this, we turn to the official Marvel Power Ratings - which ranks character abilities out of 7 (the higher the tier, the more able) and we total points the characters have. Via the star ratings, we can now see an overall picture of the character’s position in relation to another and an indication of future character cover availability.

Iron Man (33), Sentry (32), Thor (32), Doctor Doom (31), Captain Marvel (28), Loki (28), Ms. Marvel (28), Ragnarok (26), Hulk (24), Magneto (24), She-Hulk (24), Ares (23), Juggernaut (23), Invisible Woman (22), Beast (21), Black Panther (21), Colossus (21), Moonstone (21), Psylocke (21), Black Widow (20), Daken (20), Doctor Octopus (20), Venom (20), Wolverine (20), Daredevil (19), Deadpool (19), Human Torch (19), Spider-Man (19), Captain America (18), Storm (18), Punisher (17), Yelena Belova (17), Hawkeye (16), Nick Fury (16), Bullseye (15), Hood (15), Falcon (14).

The Devs decide how many star rankings they want (eg. 1*- 3*, 1* - 4* or 1* - 5*) and then split them into broadly even groupings.

At the end of this, we have 40 something unique characters, all with the ability to max level to 100 with the above suggested levels of availability forecasted.

So, there you have it. A whole bunch of evenly levelled and varied characters, where you have to carefully build your team each time as each character has useful skills and abilities.

***
Overview of conceptual integrated roster / training system:

My belief is that eventually the game has to move to a system whereby you have the characters "open but greyed out" in a central roster / training system and then you then assign points / game currency, as you see fit.

Foundational single characters (perhaps pre-powered or their alias), with some sort of skill tree system (can be as simple as the current AP abilities initially) that can all be raised to the same level (eg. 100), which you then add costumes or whatever else. For example, you have "James Howlett" and adding ISO activates the basic hack / slash abilities and you can then have his Patch, Astonishing, X-Force variants (as costumes). Perhaps the covers can be reutilised some sort of currency model, so EVERY time you got a cover, it actually means something.

Once you have the base characters, whole sets of variants can easily be introduced. If people want to pay to get anything, great for the devs, otherwise people just earn stuff like they do now.

Comments

  • Unknown
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    wall of text.... icon_rolleyes.gif

    you know, you can edit your old post, rather than open another like the spammers. icon_rolleyes.gif

    and this is better in the suggestion forum rather than here. icon_cool.gif
  • yogi_
    yogi_ Posts: 1,236 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Thanks for writing and your great ideas - I'll be sure to add them to the next update. It was a long post, I'm glad you made it to the end!

    And yes, I did think of adding it to the other one, but that kinda turned into erotica, so I thought a fresh start would be more suitable.
  • Unknown
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    I love the idea of losing the Stars on characters and being able to level everybody the same. My method of collecting everybody will pay off big time versus the people who sell lower star characters as they get 3* heroes. icon_e_biggrin.gif

    Also I have long thought that more attention should be paid to actual relative strengths of the characters and using the levels on the official marvel site is a stroke of genius.

    As for your problem with healing, it has no business in the game to start with and should be done away with. These are superheroes and should be at full health again for every fight. No health packs to be sold, no 'true healing', nothing.

    In short this is a great and pretty well thought out idea as far as I can see at first glance and would certainly negate the stupidity of recent releases such as Falcon being a 3* characeter while far more powerful heroes languish unused as 2* and even 1*.

    One last thing that I am definitely in favour of - ONE version of each character icon_e_biggrin.gif This really should have gone without saying from the beginning, who the hell thought that 4 Black Widows was necessary? lol
  • yogi_
    yogi_ Posts: 1,236 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Thankyou for the actual genuine and thought though reply. Glad you enjoyed it.

    While it would be nice, it seems unlikely it will make it into the game, but it does seem like something they could announce and work towards if they wanted to.
  • Unknown
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    Aside from the fact that they would basically have to redo most of the game from scratch and potentially utterly destroy everyone's hard earned rosters to implement changes this drastic, wouldn't this only really bring equality if everyone had every single character and had them all maxed already? The people who don't have the characters required to counter each uniquely powered character would be totally at the mercy of the people who already have everything. What would everyone be competing for anymore either? If all covers are equal and common, then there would quickly be nothing left but an endless grind for iso...at the end of which would finally come the equal combat, which at that point would have no reward benefit to anyone anymore...
  • yogi_
    yogi_ Posts: 1,236 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Aside from the fact that they would basically have to redo most of the game from scratch and potentially utterly destroy everyone's hard earned rosters to implement changes this drastic, wouldn't this only really bring equality if everyone had every single character and had them all maxed already? The people who don't have the characters required to counter each uniquely powered character would be totally at the mercy of the people who already have everything. What would everyone be competing for anymore either? If all covers are equal and common, then there would quickly be nothing left but an endless grind for iso...at the end of which would finally come the equal combat, which at that point would have no reward benefit to anyone anymore...

    Thanks too for your comments.

    In regards to general rosters and who fights who, you just have it similar to how it is now with people (roughly) going against characters of similar levels. Bracketing, etc. Gameplay and its' behind the scenes structure should remain largely the same. This is beyond the scope of my knowledge.

    The idea is that characters would transition over to what people had now, so if you had a max Punisher, max Hood and half covered Ares, then that's what you continue with. If you just were starting out and only hand a handful of covers, that stays the same. So ideally, people would broadly have equivalently levelled rosters to their current one.

    What do people compete for? Same thing, covers. I should point out the difference between covers and characters (sorry, if that was not clear). All characters are theoretically equal, but if you need to have a certain flow of covers, my last section suggested a star ranking system that is solely focused on cover availability. In this case, it would be not be too difficult to get a Punisher cover, but you would be super excited to get a Sentry cover as it was so uncommon. This is based on the current system of cover allocation and there maybe other ways that many others have discussed such as reduced cover availability but maybe pick your own colour when you get that character.

    Also, I would argue this game is somewhat about the endless grind for ISO with no clear end anyway, but that's a different thread...
  • Unknown
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    I see. I thought you were saying just get rid of the cover system and they would just be single covers that just leveled up in one way. Makes more sense now.
  • yogi_
    yogi_ Posts: 1,236 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Completely rewritten and enhanced following the announcement that the Dark Reign focus is to be dropped.

    Please read this devs...
  • Unknown
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    Way too complicated and requires way too much ripping up of the existing game AND, perhaps most importantly, people's existing "investments" in levelling characters. The devs can't even find time to rebalance Classic Magneto let alone rebalance EVERY CHARACTER.

    Also, basing anything on the official Marvel Power Ratings is hilarious.
  • yogi_
    yogi_ Posts: 1,236 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Zhirrzh wrote:
    Way too complicated and requires way too much ripping up of the existing game AND, perhaps most importantly, people's existing "investments" in levelling characters. The devs can't even find time to rebalance Classic Magneto let alone rebalance EVERY CHARACTER.

    Also, basing anything on the official Marvel Power Ratings is hilarious.

    I guess the overall idea was that in the longer term it would make each character (and in turn the whole game) more useful. No one would lose any investments, as each character would just be % changed to the new value, so if your Punisher was 90% complete, then it would stay the same. Maybe the amount of ISO needed to finish him would be slightly different. When you levelled up each level from 1 - 100, it would really change something and matter and it would really make a difference where you put your ISO - in comparison to now where there are clearly a set of characters you should level up and many who just are not important enough.

    Totally take your point about Classic Mags. Yes, there would be some short and medium term changes - it's a computer game, these things happen daily. I mean, this game has had plenty of questionable changes.

    And yes, I understand the ratings thing is hardly flawless, but I just needed a base to work off that and it seemed like the only avenue that was even half accurate to anything. There is little logic in the way it currently is and my idea does introduce it.

    To be honest, the overall rebalancing should be a much longer term thing. I mean, shouldn't Juggernaut get some use outside of the Prologue and poor Spidey has been so neutered, so he's not getting used much any more - just two examples of many where characters are simply not being used or in select cases, overused. The idea is that each character has a particular value/s that make that useful in different circumstances. The only way of achieving that is having everyone with multiple lazy equivalents or one character done properly.
  • yogi_
    yogi_ Posts: 1,236 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Following the introduction of Team-Up AP, I have enhanced and simplified each of the category listings, with each now more clearly tying to specific game features.

    * Intelligence - Characters who explicitly gain Team-Up AP.
    * Strength - Character health.
    * Speed - General overall AP cost of character powers / abilities.
    * Durability - Character healing.
    * Energy Projection - Characters with the ability to affect other players or the broader game by means other than direct damage.
    * Fighting Ability - Tile damage.

    Enjoy!

    Edit - Superseded.
  • yogi_
    yogi_ Posts: 1,236 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Complete edit and rewrite.
  • Can u specify which change will leads to more revenue?? This is meaningnless if it don't
  • yogi_
    yogi_ Posts: 1,236 Chairperson of the Boards
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    lickfurjr wrote:
    Can u specify which change will leads to more revenue?? This is meaningnless if it don't

    There is no specific change described that would lead to more revenue.

    The aim was to improve the overall rostering and character experience and in the long run, by making the game more consistent, possibly more transparent, maybe a little easier to understand and require more strategy, would likely lead to a similar or increased use of purchased HP and ISO (in the same way that people use it now).
  • Right now the star and level cap situation provides a fairly satisfactory level of progression. How do you plan to keep the elite players from feeling like their work is for nothing and the semi-free to free to play players burning out with no long term progression in sight.
  • yogi_
    yogi_ Posts: 1,236 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited August 2014
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    shmau wrote:
    Right now the star and level cap situation provides a fairly satisfactory level of progression. How do you plan to keep the elite players from feeling like their work is for nothing and the semi-free to free to play players burning out with no long term progression in sight.

    Yes, the current star and level system does provide a fairly satisfactory level of progression. I agree. But what if I want more awesome than just fairly satisfactory.

    I'm proposing the same deal as now - match tiles, collect cards, spend currency, but am standardising character levelling and increasing character use. Broader issues relating to feelings of achievement and burn out are up to the devs to manage. I mean, do the top players feel like their work is for anything now and is there long term progression for all players? Early on, you get blitzed with 1* and 2* covers (and not enough roster slots to put them in) and then takes ages to get enough 3*s. Once you get a roster of decent 3* characters then what? Collect another one. And then?

    This should in no way change how very regular players interact with the game - you have 30-40 all decent characters which you have to level up from 1 - 100 in a similar overall ISO spend to now (each level would actually cost more, I would imagine). The idea is that because every character would be useful, it would really make a difference where you put your ISO and that instead of a small section of best character trios that most people use, you have to manage everyone together and this opens up possibly dozens more useful groups to take into a match. This is in comparison to the curent situation of a variety of useful, average and less than useful characters going from levels 1 - 50, 15 - 94, 40 - 166 and 50 - 270 now, in a ranking system that means close to nothing.
  • yogi_ wrote:
    lickfurjr wrote:
    Can u specify which change will leads to more revenue?? This is meaningnless if it don't

    There is no specific change described that would lead to more revenue.

    The aim was to improve the overall rostering and character experience and in the long run, by making the game more consistent, possibly more transparent, maybe a little easier to understand and require more strategy, would likely lead to a similar or increased use of purchased HP and ISO (in the same way that people use it now).

    yogi, I can see you have good intentions, but you have essentially wasted a large chunk of your time, I didn't read your wall of text and neither will the devs, if even by some miracle they did, there is zero chance they would ever adopt any of your suggestions.

    I'm sure your ideas are great for the game, but my point is no one will ever act on them, so you're wasting your time.
  • yogi_
    yogi_ Posts: 1,236 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Meh. You can't please everybody.

    Thankfully, I'm not trying to (as nice as that would admittedly be...).
  • yogi_
    yogi_ Posts: 1,236 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Updated with Beast and Colossus.

    Durability redesigned into something more consistent and clear across the whole game.

    Other minor edits.