Phantron wrote: After using Nick Fury in the event, it seems to me yellow is much better than purple for all practical purposes, but because you don't know how much damage yellow does unless you've the stats memorized, sometimes purple ends up being better just because it's awfully hard to plan how to use a move when you've no idea how much damage it does. For purple, I find that the last upgrade only matters if you're on offense and the tile is placed in a bad spot (defined as a spot that can be immediately matched). That is, you can break down the scenarios you get: 1. Bad spot on offense - faster CD matters. 2. Good spot on offense - almost never matched. 3. Bad spot on defense - always matched by a human. 4. Good spot on defense - almost never matched. And there are far more good spots than bad spots in this game. Something that can be matched in an ideal two turn sequence isn't any safer than something that can be matched in an ideal three turn sequence because the AI pretty much never does anything that'd match your expectations, so the only risk for a higher CD is roughly equal to (# of tiles destroyed per turn/64)% which is small.
Phaserhawk wrote: agreed. I mean look no further than Punisher. He has the exact same scenario with this black. Do you build 5/5/3 and try to get black to resolve faster by dropping that CD tile count by 1, or do you say, yup, i'm happy with the inital damage and if the tile resolves, sweet, if not, oh well. And dealing with the Punisher right now in the PvP, I see a 50/50 split of 5/5/3 or 3/5/5 and the CD timer is rarely an issue due to characters with so much board destruction. While having a 600 something strike tile is nice, even if it does resolve, how long will it be around for? And if a maxed Fury yellow has Hulk doing about 2K worth of AoE dmg, I think I'd be happier with that, because it would take me 16 matches, (4 for each opponent) to surpass the damage of a 2000 AoE.
Polares wrote: Phantron wrote: After using Nick Fury in the event, it seems to me yellow is much better than purple for all practical purposes, but because you don't know how much damage yellow does unless you've the stats memorized, sometimes purple ends up being better just because it's awfully hard to plan how to use a move when you've no idea how much damage it does. For purple, I find that the last upgrade only matters if you're on offense and the tile is placed in a bad spot (defined as a spot that can be immediately matched). That is, you can break down the scenarios you get: 1. Bad spot on offense - faster CD matters. 2. Good spot on offense - almost never matched. 3. Bad spot on defense - always matched by a human. 4. Good spot on defense - almost never matched. And there are far more good spots than bad spots in this game. Something that can be matched in an ideal two turn sequence isn't any safer than something that can be matched in an ideal three turn sequence because the AI pretty much never does anything that'd match your expectations, so the only risk for a higher CD is roughly equal to (# of tiles destroyed per turn/64)% which is small. May I ask why you say you don't know how much damage yellow does? I guess part of the damage dealt is with tiles shattered, but is it so dependent on them? Or it is something like 3000 + tiles shattered ? I only have one yellow cover so I don't know how the other powers work...
Phantron wrote: Phaserhawk wrote: agreed. I mean look no further than Punisher. He has the exact same scenario with this black. Do you build 5/5/3 and try to get black to resolve faster by dropping that CD tile count by 1, or do you say, yup, i'm happy with the inital damage and if the tile resolves, sweet, if not, oh well. And dealing with the Punisher right now in the PvP, I see a 50/50 split of 5/5/3 or 3/5/5 and the CD timer is rarely an issue due to characters with so much board destruction. While having a 600 something strike tile is nice, even if it does resolve, how long will it be around for? And if a maxed Fury yellow has Hulk doing about 2K worth of AoE dmg, I think I'd be happier with that, because it would take me 16 matches, (4 for each opponent) to surpass the damage of a 2000 AoE. Well, Escape Plan's CD is considerably stronger than Molotov, but I have come to release that it's because the tile is placed randomly that it renders the usual argument for faster CD irrelevent. I started out thinking that the number of tiles you can potentially reach in a 3 turn sequence must be exponentially greater than a 2 turn sequence, so the chance of the tile surviving at a 2 turn CD versus 3 turn CD should be significant. However, after playing Nick Fury, I realize this is wrong, because the AI has no plan on offense or defense regarding CDs. It is perfectly willing to move your immediately matchable Escape Plan out of the way because it doesn't prioritize CDs, and if you started thinking 'if I do this move and he does this move then I can match the CD' you'll almost always find the computer do a completely random move that made all your planning irrelevent. Normally take a move like Bewilder. You'd start out by clearing out all the immediate blue matches, which should prevent the CD from immediately being matched. Now the computer still makes moves at random, but since you started out putting Bewilder in a safe location, the AI's random moves will almost certainly only make the tile less safe, so you want the CD to fire before the protection you setup is gone so saving a turn is huge. But for Escape Plan, there's no way to protect it in the first place, so there's no threshold for the AI to overcome.
Polares wrote: Is there somewhere (or could someone post) the max values for Fury's powers? They are not in the first page or in the wiki, and I would like to know damage values of the yellow power specially... Blue I think is around 10000, and Pink 3700 but I don't have any info on yellow. Thanxs
iincognito wrote: I maxed out Fury with a 5/5/3 setup. Collected at least 5 AP for each of his Avengers Assemble abilities before unleashing his power. He damaged the primary target for 4080 hp and the rest for 1360 hp. He also stunned the primary target for 3 turns, added 2 ctrit tiles and added 2 protection tiles (163 each). Keep in mind that he does this for just 12 yellow ap. He needs, but does not use, 5 red, purple, blue and green ap. Now, you can still pop his yellow without having 5 of each supporting colors, but you will not get the full effect. (I.e. I did not have 5 green ap for one of my tests, so Hulk was not summoned to do damage, but the other avengers assembled.)
hamsingame wrote: Edit: Some damage data. At level 209, Iron Man did 2543 damage, Hulk did 1281
mischiefmaker wrote: From upthread, on page 10: iincognito wrote: I maxed out Fury with a 5/5/3 setup. Collected at least 5 AP for each of his Avengers Assemble abilities before unleashing his power. He damaged the primary target for 4080 hp and the rest for 1360 hp. He also stunned the primary target for 3 turns, added 2 ctrit tiles and added 2 protection tiles (163 each). Keep in mind that he does this for just 12 yellow ap. He needs, but does not use, 5 red, purple, blue and green ap. Now, you can still pop his yellow without having 5 of each supporting colors, but you will not get the full effect. (I.e. I did not have 5 green ap for one of my tests, so Hulk was not summoned to do damage, but the other avengers assembled.) Page 13: hamsingame wrote: Edit: Some damage data. At level 209, Iron Man did 2543 damage, Hulk did 1281 The numbers for Iron Man at level 209 look right (I've got a L3 yellow that's 207 in the current event), but I can't verify any of the others. It's a little strange that the scaling from level 209 to level 270 is 1500 damage for Iron Man but only 80 damage for Hulk, though, so it'd be really nice if someone with a 5-yellow could confirm, and also test whether the main-target damage is affected by the L5 cover.
Phantron wrote: mischiefmaker wrote: From upthread, on page 10: iincognito wrote: I maxed out Fury with a 5/5/3 setup. Collected at least 5 AP for each of his Avengers Assemble abilities before unleashing his power. He damaged the primary target for 4080 hp and the rest for 1360 hp. He also stunned the primary target for 3 turns, added 2 ctrit tiles and added 2 protection tiles (163 each). Keep in mind that he does this for just 12 yellow ap. He needs, but does not use, 5 red, purple, blue and green ap. Now, you can still pop his yellow without having 5 of each supporting colors, but you will not get the full effect. (I.e. I did not have 5 green ap for one of my tests, so Hulk was not summoned to do damage, but the other avengers assembled.) Page 13: hamsingame wrote: Edit: Some damage data. At level 209, Iron Man did 2543 damage, Hulk did 1281 The numbers for Iron Man at level 209 look right (I've got a L3 yellow that's 207 in the current event), but I can't verify any of the others. It's a little strange that the scaling from level 209 to level 270 is 1500 damage for Iron Man but only 80 damage for Hulk, though, so it'd be really nice if someone with a 5-yellow could confirm, and also test whether the main-target damage is affected by the L5 cover. I suspect the 4000 damage was Iron Man's red + Hulk's green on everyone combined, as that'd work out for 2720r/1360g for 270 versus 2543r/1281g for level 209 which at least looks reasonable. That also illustrates the frustration with using Fury because you've an unknown value for red and green and they're usually combined, and being off by 200 on Hulk when you have 10 Anger tiles on the board is not a matter of life and death. Sure, you might calculate wrong anyway even if you were given the numbers, but it's really frustrating to not even know the numbers.
locked wrote: But it's not 12 yellow. For 12 yellow all it does is add protect tiles <--- It's 12 yellow, 5 blue, 5 purple, 5 red and 5 green. 32 AP total needed for the full effect.
Phaserhawk wrote: Thanks phantron for another awesome analysis. If you can keep green costs in the high end than AA is the superior offensive and defensive option. Assuming one chooses to always run Hood with Fury. You only need a red/green user. Patch could safely be inserted but you can't guarantee the green. Thor would keep green safe but not red. Maybe the new X-Force will provide options. Sentry would never let u cast AA. However Thor could cast Thunderstrike instead of AI casting AA (which isn't a bad thing). Thor is probably the strongest pairing as he provides an equally powerful character to deal with, and gives you an outlet for yellow if fury is destroyed.