Lurkers: You know who you are, step into the light!!

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Clintman
Clintman Posts: 757 Critical Contributor
edited July 2014 in MPQ General Discussion
OK, so now I am posting after I have faded into irrelevance. I chose to fade out quietly rather than post a long rant about the state of the game and have instead watched what has happened.

So, how many of you Veterans are still out there, watching from the shadows?

How many of you have been enticed to come back by recent changes?

How many of you slipped into the shadows because of the recent changes?

I am going to copy and paste a few things from my previous idea threads now... prepare for a nap.
Sharding: Veteran players got pushed into groups with other players who are even with their levels. We know that the deep 3* rosters represent a small portion of the subscriber base, so in unsharded groupings we often found ourselves one of the only big fish in the pond so taking first was pretty easy to do, which was fun. My wife thinks sharding is great, she has a 2* roster and takes top 5 with a score in the 6-700 range, so it is working great for her. My brother in Law is grouped with guys like me, and he stopped playing because it is a brutal slog and he feels he cannot progress anymore. Personally I think Sharding is garbage when implemented without some sort of risk vs reward structure. Intermediates and Veterans feel like we are being crapped on for progressing in the game.

METRICS I believe are going to show that Sharding is a great thing, the newer players are having an easy time placing in the tournaments.

PERCEPTION is that veteran players are being punished for being successful in the game. (Allow me the opportunity to plug the idea of risk vs reward)

REACTION People on the cusp of 3* who get lumped in the Veteran shards will walk away like my brother in law did because he feels like he hit a wall he cannot progress past. Veteran players will get bored because it is too much work just to maintain.

AFTER ACTION REVIEW: Since the playerbase has evolved and there are so many maxed out rosters now, I wonder how much of this impact is really due to sharding or if it is a reflection of the maturity of the rosters of the playerbase.
Lack of perceived value in In Ap Purchases: I bought covers for my Daken to max him out. I wanted to buy a 10 pack and see if I could get more than 3. Odds would have been good if they were at 20% like they were for Falcon, but when D3 moved the odds down to 6.1% it left a SERIOUSLY sour taste in my mouth.

METRICS are showing that people are willing to buy, and spend money worse and worse deals. The money is coming in so all is well.

PERCEPTION is that we no longer want to support the game when the focus is changing from game play improving to being purely profit driven.

REACTION is the erosion of good will from the player base. What I have seen in these forums is a super loyal player base that would support this game indefinitely.

AFTER ACTION REVIEW: What is it down to 4.4% now? I don't know, but the pricing is so stupid it just floors me. I have been playing Brave Frontiers pretty religiously now and it is amazing to see the difference in IAP value. You can buy a random chance at a rare unit (They are upgradable to the equivilent of 3* and 4* toons) for about $4. I have spent more on BF than I did on MPQ and I don't feel like a fool every time I buy IAPs with this game. They had server downtime in the middle of the night for 2 hours longer than expected and they compensated the playerbase by what would be worth 300HP worth of their currency.
I think D3 should make fewer events count toward Season totals, ideally I would like to see only new character events count toward season standings, or events that have new character rewards count toward season standings.

Make Falcon events crazy competitive and have them count toward season standings. Make a Daken event count toward season standings, that is cool, lets go nuts over new covers.

It is driving me crazy to have to compete at such a high level for Ragnarok and Loki covers which are desirable to "Almost" no one. (There is a crazy SOB in another thread that lied and said he likes Loki... but I digress). Having to push this hard in order to maintain our season score is making no one happy.

New and intermediate players are finding themselves unable to get new 3* covers... the very people that could imagine a use for Loki or Ragnarok are the ones who have no chance of getting them. Not when the veteran hardcore players are forced to play hard to maintain their season scores. My friends who are not in S.H.I.E.L.D are not enjoying the fact that you have to have 1150 points to come in to top 10. And every one of the top 10, have the covers in the first place.

Veteran players are having to spend resources in a soulless grind in order to maintain placement for a 25 day event. I feel bad every time I have to grind to 1st ahead of some guy that could use the 4* cover. I feel even worse that I have to spend HP shield hopping because myself and every other poor bastard out there is trying to preserve their season ranking.

The worst thing is the burnout, It is terrible to have to play hard on events you don't care about. It makes you start to get sick of a very fun game. Couple that with the feeling that I am doing harm to the intermediate players and you have a recipe for resignation.

The other though that I am having on this is that they probably did not change placement in brackets, more that what we are experiencing is the change in motivation of people to play hard and place in order to maintain their season ranking.

AFTER ACTION REVIEW: Well we can look around at our Alliances and see that we recognize very few faces from what we started with when seasons started. Seems like now everyone takes stock of the past month and decides whether or not to keep playing or not and retire or not at the end of the season. My own experience is showing that more and more people are choosing to find something else to do.

see players as falling into 3 categories; Veterans/hardcore, Intermediate and Newbie. Mixed in there I talk about F2P since they populate all 3 categories.
First I will share my observations on each. Bear in mind I do not claim to speak definitively, only from my own perspective. Second I will explain the vital role each plays in the success of the game. Finally I will share my opinion on what needs to change and why.

Veterans/Hardcore: These are the people like myself, admittedly not representative of the population of the game, we represent the top 1-5% by my own estimate of the player base, but we are the ones that are watched more than the rest of the 95%. We are the ones who dominate the leader boards, whose alliances show up at the top. We are the people who have 10-11 Maxed out 141 toons and are not heartbroken over the nerf to Spiderman because we can take it. We spend money, and lots of it. Take a look at how many Dakens have almost all their covers and are in the 100's.

F2P: The F2P ones who have 5+ 141s that they earned through blood sweat and tears are the one that demonstrate that you can win at this game without refinancing your home to do it, they are the truly hardcore. These are the ones who do a lot of research on their characters and make sure they spend their ISO effectively. F2P are hybrids of the four groups I identified, they are Veterans/Hardcore, intermediates and newbies alike. The F2P eventually transition to paying, or hold onto their F2Pness like a badge of honor.
On a lighter note, some of our self identified F2P are like Celibacy club members who hook on the weekends, not everyone is honest about their spending habits, and really it doesn't matter.

Intermediates: are the working class of MPQ, these are the ones that are working toward their transitions, they have the full range of rosters, 1* Storm maxed out, 2* Thor/OBW/Wolverine working on Ares. You name it they got it. These are the ones that are the most likely in my opinion to make the tip and start spending money on something other than Roster Slots... Just hopefully they did not use their first IAP to buy Spiderman's last blue, or C Mag's Red.

Newbies: These are the guys that just came out of Prologue and want to see what the fuss is about, they are in no way vested in the game and want to see if it is fun enough to keep playing, they have not made up their minds about IAP, but they are curious to see how stupid the exchange rates are for currency. They want to try PVP and see what their 17+ 1* roster can do.
Who is most important of these groups? The unsurprising answer is all of them are important. Veterans/Hardcore are the people that the Intermediates and F2P look at and want to join the ranks of. Without the Veteran/Hardcore population being strong and vibrant the Intermediate and Newbie population get wary of the future and decide to keep their money in their pockets. Veterans/Hardcore burn out and fade away all the time, but what is important is why they fade away. If they leave because they are bored, found something else to do, wife left them etc. Then no harm no foul, new intermediates graduate into the hardcore and the cycle continues. If the Veteran/Hardcore population starts leaving because they become disillusioned then things get bad. The Veteran/Hardcore population is small, but it is vocal and it is influential. (I know, what a bunch of Divas right?)

Intermediates are the lifeblood of the game, these are the ones the Devs need to convince to start spending money. The Hardcore/Veterans already do, they are deeply involved in the meta-endgame where they spend 3-4X as much ISO in shields and boosts every PVP just to take first place. Those guys are already spending money, hell I have my Daken ready for the 1100 point reward and 3x covers from the next PVP featuring him and he will be maxed out.

But the intermediates are still on the fence, they have fun with the game, but they are not sure it's worth the cash. Is the game going to be fun enough in the future to warrant the investment? The answer to that question lies in the vibrancy of the Veteran/Hardcore population, and it also lies in the accessibility of events for them. Moreso the events than the Veteran/Hardcores of course.
Next we talk about the Newbies. These are the most temperamental of all of them, they might have downloaded it just because someone recommended it and have no idea if they want to even play more than a couple of matches before they go back to Clash of Clans. These are the ones that will be the future of the game if they get hooked.

Finally a note about F2P: Everyone starts out F2P, even if they never spend a dime they keep the population up and give targets for PVP, their contribution matters even if it is not a direct monetary gain.

Challenges: The challenges I see facing the game now are the aging population, the Veteran/Hardcore group is growing and getting deeper, this is good, but they are demanding as hell and vocal. They are also determined to find ways around controls set in place to limit the things they do not like.

This growing population however feeds brutally on the intermediate and newbie player base. It is common knowledge how to tank your MMR down to the level 6 1* MMR range and beat on people who just started the game because it is the fastest way to gain ISO.
The devs have figured out ways to protect the newbie's by sharding the brackets and putting all of the intermediate and Veteran/hardcore players together and leaving the newbies in relatively protected brackets. Sure they still get preyed on by the higher levels because of MMR but they have the ability to take first with a low level roster because of bracketing. I think this is a good thing. The new players need to be protected, but then again so do the intermediates.

So, the newbies are happy, the intermediates are pissed because 10th place requires over 1000 points to attain and those point spots are all filled with 141 rosters. The veteran/hardcores are pissed because all they really want is more ISO to level up their 40 slot rosters, and now there is much harder competition for that ISO reward in the tournaments.

Every one of these groups is very important and interdependent. Even the elite/veteran/hardcore/A-holes are necessary even though they do not spend as much as the rest of the 95%. Don't forget they were part of that 95% before they broke away from the pack.

If you have had the patience to read my other posts you already know my personal opinion of the direction the game should go. Change is needed because the player base is maturing, and it will be REALLY loyal if it is nurtured.

We need a risk vs. Reward structure. once you hit the top echelon of the game you should be making more ISO per fight than newbie and intermediate players. There needs to be an incentive not to hit the weaker rosters and more incentive to hit harder targets that take longer to kill.

2 tournaments with different reward structures where a player can pick only 1 but not both. One tournament with lower level rewards and lower ISO per fight, but with covers that help you transition to 3*. And one that has a higher ISO per fight with better covers and then only let the player choose one. Let players decide which brackets they enter. It will go a long way to stave off people feeling like they got screwed by the Hogwarts sorting hat.

I also think we need to have fewer tournaments count toward the Season goals, allow people to take breaks from their alliance obligations and reduce burnout.

AFTER ACTION REVIEW: So, this is almost the entire post of my Different types of Players and why you should love them thread.

What I see happening now is the Veteran population is leaving. New and intermediate players are looking around and wondering what the hell happened to them as they increase in ranks to become the new Veterans, and now I see them retiring now. Becoming a veteran player is happening much faster as the most present players fade away... Or burn up.

AFTER AFTER ACTION REVIEW: Why did I stop posting? Why did I stop offering suggestions for improvement? It is my opinion that the Devs have given up on the community, this is apparent by the lack of presence on the forums, it is apparent by the fact that most of our Mods have left the game and they have made no effort to replace them, or do anything about the spam on the site. Our forums look like Detroit rather than Seattle now, there seems to be a spirit of hopelessness.

There have been many great ideas put forth but unfortunately D3 has a vision and it does not see these forums. So, why did I stop posting? When you piss into the wind, you only get wet and stinky. There really does not seem to be much point.

Comments

  • Unknown
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    I would like to hear Iceix or Will's opinion on this. This is by far the most serious (and well developed) concern on the forum. I know they can't/won't give answers to everything on here. However, I do feel if they were ever going to seriously and genuinely address an issue, it should be this one. And not a we are aware of the issue or we're working on several things we can't mention. The response should have concrete specifics of how (or if) these issues will be addressed and within what timeframe.

    I understand new content is important, and maybe it takes a team of 20 developers to a week to develop one power for one character, so they lack the time to visit forum as much as they used to. I don't know, I play games, got no clue how they're made. I'mpretty sure it's not easy.

    Personally, I'm having more fun than a few months ago, but it is very evident, many are not. Hence, I would hope the proper people deem it requisite of their time to adequately address this issue
  • LordWill
    LordWill Posts: 341
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    Clint!

    Glad to see you! I totally agree with you and have basically just been lurking. There really isn't any point to posting anymore other than to just talk.

    I've thought about posting the REAL truth about the game (The Devs don't care about suggestions, prices will only come down when the game is going into its death spiral, etc) and leave it at that but I just don't even want to put energy into that. What's the point?

    I've never seen anything like what Demiurge/D3 has done to its customer base. It's beyond frustrating.

    People wanted so desperately to love, support, and help this game. It's really unfortunate.
  • Unknown
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    I'm a long time lurker, I uninstalled the game just before the end of Season 1, I'm 100% F2P, and at the time, had a respectable roster, and was in a top 50 (give or take) alliance.

    I don't know if I qualify as 'veteran', but I'd been playing since October and being F2P did not greatly hinder my progress, I quit for the same reasons veteran players quit.

    After a 6 week break from the game, I wanted to come back as a sandboxer just to mess around with the new characters, but then I discovered that my alliance had a casual version, so I joined that instead.

    Since coming back as casual, I'm enjoying the game a lot more, there is no pressure to play like a maniac, I interact with other 'retired' alliance members, and if I take the game more seriously, I may be invited back to the main alliance.

    I aim to minimise my playing time and grinding, so I'm ok with collecting covers slowly, top 25 is very easy to reach for two covers, and I still push for top 5 when I feel like it (don't care about 1st any more, I think current 4*s will remain useless for a while yet).

    I'm done with being frustrated with the devs, I don't expect any positive changes (though there are many great things they could do, but won't, there were some great suggestions by forum members), I only expect more nerfs and petty cash grabs, but I'm ok with it, I'm enjoying playing the game casually and there are zero reasons for me to spend money on this game, I'd rather have a small HP surplus than shield hop, I never buy boosts with HP, 10 packs and tokens are a horrible investment, and don't get me started on iso.

    I find all the little annoying nerfs and changes amusing more than anything, especially the volume of impotent rage they provoke, but I can easily play around them, and, if anything, they encourage me to play more casually and efficiently.

    I sound jaded, and that's because, initially, this was a great game, with a great community, and I did drop $20 on it during the first Hulk event, not because I needed the HP, I did it to support the devs, as I was getting a lot of enjoyment out of the game, and thought they needed to be rewarded.

    The biggest factor that has affected my attitude is the devs' greed, pettiness, arrogance and disdain for the player base, "working as intended", "you'll get over it, here's another lazy 3* (carrot) to chase", stealth nerfs etc., they seem not to value our community, no interest in improving the game experience, no genuinely new content and have no interest in retaining paying veteran players.
  • Nonce Equitaur 2
    Nonce Equitaur 2 Posts: 2,269 Chairperson of the Boards
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    The site's most popular member, with a rep of 1099, is leaving. Why?
    Now it's full of spam and xmen troll threads.
    Dammit.

    The site's second most popular member, with a rep of 894, is leaving. Why?
    Clintman wrote:
    It is my opinion that the Devs have given up on the community, this is apparent by the lack of presence on the forums, it is apparent by the fact that most of our Mods have left the game and they have made no effort to replace them, or do anything about the spam on the site.
    Dammit.

    The site's third most popular member, Twysta, with a rep of 802, still seems happy. I hope he doesn't leave because of spam!

    Yeah!

    The site's fourth most popular member, IceIX, with a rep of 735, seems to have given up on the site back in June.

    Dammit.
  • Unknown
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    Indeed. It's all your fault Nonce. The truth is, we are actually going to a different forum, and unfortunately you're not allowed. You will be forever trapped here in an endless cycle of spam.
  • Unknown
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    apathydemotivator.jpg
  • Clintman
    Clintman Posts: 757 Critical Contributor
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    I really wanted this to be my game, it has been a blast for the past months and I have overlooked the flaws on the hopes that things would improve as it is such a great concept and is fun to play.

    These days, I log in and play one match to give my Alliance the daily boost then look at the events and decide if I want to play them or not. Loki Rewards? Back to Brave Frontier, Lazy Human Torch? Join the last day and see where I place.

    You can tell that the Developers are trying to push MPQ into the common mold of limited energy to make you buy health packs so they can extract revenue in the same way that most other IAP games do. I think they are willing to sacrifice the early adopters, who are the people who do not like that model in other games that embraced MPQ because it was different. Essentially it comes down to my perception that D3 does not want me and others like me as their target audience. This is fine too, I am just moving to other energy based games that do a better job of their gameplay. D3 is actively moving away from the things that set them apart, which moves them into competition with other games that do it better.

    It really is taking them far too long to figure out how to deal with their endgame, PVP has been broken from the start and the modifications are patches to a sinking ship, the only reason people put up with getting preyed on by higher level players is the hopes that one day they will be the big dog too, but they are finding out that it is no better at the top, that no matter what they move to, the PVP is just lousy.

    PVE scoring is just plain dumb, get rid of the PVE aspect and make it a target you shoot for. Scale difficulty of fights based on a fixed scale, get rid of individual scaling. Do you want community? Make everyone go up against level 400 enemies on the final node and make that node worth a bucket of points. Then watch commentary on "How do you beat Ares/Moonstone/Sentry", see people talk about different strategies based on different team comps. Right now, I could care less how to beat level 400 enemies, I am just going to do what it takes to keep them as low as possible so I don't have to deal with it. Why fight a level 400 enemy for 147 points and 20 ISO when I can just sacrifice my team and make them take damage so it looks like lower levels are harder than they are so I can game the system.

    Imagine how many happy EU players not to mention the rest of the player base would be if PVE was not PVP based, where you could just accomplish something and go to bed without waking up to find some dude went in and passed you due to ****-banding... sorry rubber banding.

    And the final thing, all of this has been said before. I have made these suggestions, many others have as well. The key thing is that D3 has their own vision, they are not interested in our input as they trust this vision. So now that I understand what it is, I am left with the decision, do I keep playing or do I move on?
  • franckynight
    franckynight Posts: 582 Critical Contributor
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    Great post.. Really..
  • Colognoisseur
    Colognoisseur Posts: 804 Critical Contributor
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    Clintman wrote:
    I really wanted this to be my game, it has been a blast for the past months and I have overlooked the flaws on the hopes that things would improve as it is such a great concept and is fun to play.

    These days, I log in and play one match to give my Alliance the daily boost then look at the events and decide if I want to play them or not. Loki Rewards? Back to Brave Frontier, Lazy Human Torch? Join the last day and see where I place.

    You can tell that the Developers are trying to push MPQ into the common mold of limited energy to make you buy health packs so they can extract revenue in the same way that most other IAP games do. I think they are willing to sacrifice the early adopters, who are the people who do not like that model in other games that embraced MPQ because it was different. Essentially it comes down to my perception that D3 does not want me and others like me as their target audience. This is fine too, I am just moving to other energy based games that do a better job of their gameplay. D3 is actively moving away from the things that set them apart, which moves them into competition with other games that do it better.

    It really is taking them far too long to figure out how to deal with their endgame, PVP has been broken from the start and the modifications are patches to a sinking ship, the only reason people put up with getting preyed on by higher level players is the hopes that one day they will be the big dog too, but they are finding out that it is no better at the top, that no matter what they move to, the PVP is just lousy.

    PVE scoring is just plain dumb, get rid of the PVE aspect and make it a target you shoot for. Scale difficulty of fights based on a fixed scale, get rid of individual scaling. Do you want community? Make everyone go up against level 400 enemies on the final node and make that node worth a bucket of points. Then watch commentary on "How do you beat Ares/Moonstone/Sentry", see people talk about different strategies based on different team comps. Right now, I could care less how to beat level 400 enemies, I am just going to do what it takes to keep them as low as possible so I don't have to deal with it. Why fight a level 400 enemy for 147 points and 20 ISO when I can just sacrifice my team and make them take damage so it looks like lower levels are harder than they are so I can game the system.

    Imagine how many happy EU players not to mention the rest of the player base would be if PVE was not PVP based, where you could just accomplish something and go to bed without waking up to find some dude went in and passed you due to ****-banding... sorry rubber banding.

    And the final thing, all of this has been said before. I have made these suggestions, many others have as well. The key thing is that D3 has their own vision, they are not interested in our input as they trust this vision. So now that I understand what it is, I am left with the decision, do I keep playing or do I move on?

    Clint I sat this without trying to be a jerk but you have made all of these points incessantly over the past few weeks.
    Everyone has heard them and if the devs are going to act on them they will. You cutting and pasting them into a new post will not be likely to make them adopt it any sooner, or at all.
    You say you have a new lover in Brave Frontiers, good for you. It's waiting there for your attention. Time to leave the old lover behind and you can check in when Brave Frontiers begins to irritate you down the line. Maybe MPQ will have undergone a makeover on the digital game version of Ellen and look enticing to you again or maybe it will have gotten fat and bloated and you will have been happy to have left it behind at the right time.
    In any case good luck with Brave Frontiers you will be missed here.
  • Unknown
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    You say you have a new lover in Brave Frontiers, good for you. It's waiting there for your attention. Time to leave the old lover behind and you can check in when Brave Frontiers begins to irritate you down the line.

    If you think of this game as a lover, doesn't that mean that you constantly pay for sex?

    Colognoisseur is a "john."
  • Clintman
    Clintman Posts: 757 Critical Contributor
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    Clint I sat this without trying to be a jerk but you have made all of these points incessantly over the past few weeks.
    Everyone has heard them and if the devs are going to act on them they will. You cutting and pasting them into a new post will not be likely to make them adopt it any sooner, or at all.
    You say you have a new lover in Brave Frontiers, good for you. It's waiting there for your attention. Time to leave the old lover behind and you can check in when Brave Frontiers begins to irritate you down the line. Maybe MPQ will have undergone a makeover on the digital game version of Ellen and look enticing to you again or maybe it will have gotten fat and bloated and you will have been happy to have left it behind at the right time.
    In any case good luck with Brave Frontiers you will be missed here.

    Ellen? What Ellen? Are we talking Ellen DeGeneres? I am not sure a digital game version of Ellen DeGeneres would have much pull with my demographic.

    And fear not the repeated arguments, they come much less frequently as I sink back into the shadows to see whether the game gets fat and bloated or goes Lesbian.
  • Colognoisseur
    Colognoisseur Posts: 804 Critical Contributor
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    Ghast wrote:
    You say you have a new lover in Brave Frontiers, good for you. It's waiting there for your attention. Time to leave the old lover behind and you can check in when Brave Frontiers begins to irritate you down the line.

    If you think of this game as a lover, doesn't that mean that you constantly pay for sex?

    Colognoisseur is a "john."

    Yes I am icon_e_smile.gif
  • Unknown
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    Why hasn't this been sticky'd yet? Definitely first page material. I think a lot of people got distracted with the Deadpool release, not realizing that sharding/scaling/MMR/rubberbanding are still unresolved issues.
  • Unknown
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    I liked it better when the story actually mattered. Now with these events, you just fight and fight with no apparent story tie in. You play for the sake of the game.

    It'd be nice if you actually could unlock a 'final' mission that if you beat it, showed how the story played out, or even a 5-10 second movie clip.
  • Unknown
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    Why hasn't this been sticky'd yet? Definitely first page material. I think a lot of people got distracted with the Deadpool release, not realizing that sharding/scaling/MMR/rubberbanding are still unresolved issues.

    What DuffMan said. Bump, bump, bump, bump.

    Also, pve end times for euro players.
  • mjh
    mjh Posts: 708 Critical Contributor
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    this is a great post with so much value for D3 to pivot their direction
  • Unknown
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    daibar wrote:
    I liked it better when the story actually mattered. Now with these events, you just fight and fight with no apparent story tie in. You play for the sake of the game.

    It'd be nice if you actually could unlock a 'final' mission that if you beat it, showed how the story played out, or even a 5-10 second movie clip.

    If only The Watcher could show us What If The Devs Took Ten Minutes to Write Some New Dialogue?
  • Unknown
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    Add team-ups to the long-list of issues needed to be resolved

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