entropic01 wrote: I'll take my Patch + Classic Mags over any HT team you can field for kill speed.
Phantron wrote: It takes 14 red AP to throw 2 Fireballs, while 14 AP gets you 4 Star Spangled Avengers. Yes Captain's red can be killed and it takes time but 14 red AP takes a while to build anyway, and it's really not rocket science to put it in a corner with no red anywhere near it. Captain can also stun on the side which should make it easier to keep the said tiles alive.
Rorex wrote: entropic01 wrote: I'll take my Patch + Classic Mags over any HT team you can field for kill speed. HT + Lazy Daken would be faster for sure. And I should point out that in your team its Patch that makes kills fast not cMags. Especially after the last slight nerf. I would even argue that going up against a HT team cMags is going to be at least somewhat neutralized due to the lack of red tiles available (since his purple now requires them).
entropic01 wrote: Rorex wrote: entropic01 wrote: I'll take my Patch + Classic Mags over any HT team you can field for kill speed. HT + Lazy Daken would be faster for sure. And I should point out that in your team its Patch that makes kills fast not cMags. Especially after the last slight nerf. I would even argue that going up against a HT team cMags is going to be at least somewhat neutralized due to the lack of red tiles available (since his purple now requires them). Agree to disagree then. Saying cMags has no part in fast kill speed is insane IMO.
Polares wrote: entropic01 wrote: Rorex wrote: entropic01 wrote: I'll take my Patch + Classic Mags over any HT team you can field for kill speed. HT + Lazy Daken would be faster for sure. And I should point out that in your team its Patch that makes kills fast not cMags. Especially after the last slight nerf. I would even argue that going up against a HT team cMags is going to be at least somewhat neutralized due to the lack of red tiles available (since his purple now requires them). Agree to disagree then. Saying cMags has no part in fast kill speed is insane IMO. HT is fast, but Mag Blue after Patch green is a really fast way of killing enemies...
Phantron wrote: The longer it takes to collect red the more favorable it is for Captain because it takes time for Star Spangled Avenger to recycle. In your first 3 red matches you'd get a Fireball off, but nobody is doubting that the first Fireball is faster. It's also nowhere enough to win the game by itself. By the time you get your 4th red match you can do 2 Star Spangled Avenger, and as long as you don't have your 5th red match in the next 4 turns, you'll have 2 Star Spangled Avengers but you can't even have 2 Fireballs at that point. And usually by the time you have 12 red AP, that 5th match is going to take a while because you're running low on red tiles to match. The AI makes no attempt to actually destroy the CD tile. If an enemy has an ability that has a high chance of destroying the CD you can either wait or just take a chance. Star Spangled Avenger does 3600 damage on level 141, which is also often enough to simply kill one wounded character. Certainly the second time you use Star Spangled Avenger somebody is most definitely going to die if you need to take out someone first. In the First Avenger so far the only two times my Captain tiles got destroyed was from Oasis. You must not be studying the board at all to have a placeable CD destroyed so easily. Putting it at bottom left or right corner is nearly 100% safe, and Oasis is the only ability you can't predict when the AI uses (because they're saving up for Sandstorm which costs way more, so the chance of using Oasis each round is small but nonzero and thus impossible to predict). Normal board clearing moves gets is used with high predictability.
Puritas wrote: wait how on earth do you go from "Cap's read does more damage than HT's red in the long run" to "In drawn out games HT will never outdamage cap" HT has three high-damage attack skills, of course he's going to outdamage cap if you're not for some inane reason using only his red the entire game
NorthernPolarity wrote: I think the idea is that you have another green/black outlet on your team to go along with Cap. The point of the discussion was to compare their red abilities as those are probably the main reason why you would use them on your team in the first place, not to discuss their 1 on 1 potential.
Phantron wrote: Captain probably goes best with Thor and The Hood, who covers green and black more than adequately.
Rorex wrote: Phantron wrote: Captain probably goes best with Thor and The Hood, who covers green and black more than adequately. Really Lazy Thor and Lazy Cap? Isn't that going to mean the AI uses Mjolnir’s Might on defense instead of Cap's much better red? I mean its 8ap vs 11ap the odds are not good that you will generate 11ap at the same time you get 8. Plus on defense you know the AI will thunderstrike and destroy it own countdown tile. I 100% agree with Hood but was thinking Patch over Thor. Same colors, strike tiles that aren't on Cap's colors and pretty much forced kill order for enemy attackers. Have to get rid of Hood to use abilities and not just match damage, don't want to leave Patch till last meaining in theory Cap should be the last killed on defense. So tons of time for his damage and stunning to grow. Back on topic though. as much as Torch is going to be a decent counter for 3* Daken they will also work good together if your using a 5/3/5 build. Sure some of your fireballs will destory your strike tiles but because fireballs shouldn't be your main objective that shouldn't be an issue. It will simply be a match green and feed flame jet set up. I might even consider a 3/5/5 build based on that premise.
NorthernPolarity wrote: Puritas wrote: wait how on earth do you go from "Cap's read does more damage than HT's red in the long run" to "In drawn out games HT will never outdamage cap" HT has three high-damage attack skills, of course he's going to outdamage cap if you're not for some inane reason using only his red the entire game I think the idea is that you have another green/black outlet on your team to go along with Cap. The point of the discussion was to compare their red abilities as those are probably the main reason why you would use them on your team in the first place, not to discuss their 1 on 1 potential.
Phantron wrote: The problem with the AI's saving up mechanism is that it has to make that roll every turn. Let's say for the sake of argument there's a 75% chance it'll save up for 11 red AP (Star Spangled Avenger) when it has 8 red AP. So that sounds like a pretty good chance it'll save up, right? No, because it has to do that every turn. Assuming you have any idea of how the AI operates, you'd obviously want to deny red matches at this point (Star Spangled Avenger does more damage straight up and if that CD tile survives, you're going to take way more total damage). Let's say you're able to keep the AI from making another red match for 5 turns, which isn't even very hard because there shouldn't even be very many red left by the time this happens. The chance it wouldn't use the 8 red AP move in 5 turns is (0.75)^5 = 24%. And I'm pretty sure the chance of AI saving up is significantly lower than that, but even at these optimistic numbers, the AI will only save up to 11 24% of the time when starting with 8. So yes having Thor and Captain on the same team means you have to give up Captain's red, but Thor brings enough for me to make that sacrifice.
Phaserhawk wrote: agreed. Rorex is mostly correct, but as you said it isn't always the case. I do think the AI looks at what it has and if it could get a tile match to bring it into the use of another skill, like my Judgment skipped for Call of the Storm. The AI knew it could make a match to get 14 Green AP and whatever it's program did, felt that was best. But I have many times been in the same situation where it could have done something similiar, like say Thor's Red vs. Cap, and it chose to go Thor's. I wonder if in that Judgement vs. Call of the Storm, it ranked the damage higher than the Judgement Strike Tiles? Hmm