New Character - Toad (Mortimer Toynbee) 4*

Most characters might be OP with a passive OR an active. Toad is overpowered by both. His passive and his actives are insane in a way that I seriously doubt they meant to have happen.

@Read_Only said:
I'm fine with it, for years people keep telling me the thor okoye meta was so good because it was quick and then easy to beat.

Well so is HE and Toad. But I smashed all those cheese teams for 75 points that have spent ages swapping covers to get that 2* or 3* etc to 550 to sit aloft the peasants, so this will get reeled in.

The Okoye Thor (and later, Okoye Hulk) metagame basically murdered MPQ. It drove off a lot of the biggest whales. Tons of my friends who played for fun quit and never came back.

Every single character besides those two (well, three) was completely worthless, and they were so terrified of creating another Gambit that all the new characters were trash too. It was totally stagnant -- the same two characters for like 3 years.

The endgame playerbase that's left is the result of that time. These players LIKED using the same two characters to do everything for multiple years!

@entrailbucket said:

@KGB said:

@entrailbucket said:

@KGB said:

@entrailbucket said:

@Blackstone said:

@entrailbucket said:

@Blackstone said:
"Winfinite" may have had an initial meaning, but it's evolved and people understand what it means in current context with zero thought to any 2* teams from back in the day. I don't mind using "infinite teams" when replying to you if that's your preference though.

I agree about Hawkeye. Your turn might never end but at least you're placing matches. Toad might allow you to continuously "smash button" but there are others that win (even defensively) by simply making a single match and watching as the cascade and extreme match damage just happens.

I don't know what they want the game to be, or if your suggestions are meant to be real or just express frustration.

When I started reading your last comment, I thought you were responding to me as I responded to you. But nothing you said actually responds to what I said so I may have been mistaken.

Yeah it actually wasn't meant as a direct reply, more of an expansion or aside I guess. I was agreeing with you for the most part.

Mostly the cascade thing can't happen anymore, at least in PvP, after they banned Copter and Fantasticar.

Those suggestions are meant to be real. If any player can win any match against any enemies immediately, with no chance of a loss, a number of the game's systems just stop making sense.

Lots of folks already play MPQ like a single player game -- they don't compete and they'd prefer not to. That's why overpowered characters are viewed as a universal good. If there's no competition, though, the metagame doesn't matter, and balance doesn't matter. If they did this, they could introduce a character with a power like "Passive: every time you make a match, you win the game" and it'd have no impact on anyone else.

I think we're on same page then.

There's no reason to not plainly say "you win" in the description text at this point. I'm not saying it's good or bad, it is simply where we are.

What would your thoughts be on an event that put caps on the amount of damage that can be done, and the amount of AP that can be earned, per turn?

Well, that's what Galactus does, so in 5 years when we all have him I guess it won't be a problem?

I really have no idea. It feels like they've boxed themselved into a corner.

Restrictions like you describe would probably lead to lots more Kang/Multiple Man etc teams, and depending on how severe the damage limit was, I could see them becoming dominant.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Put cool downs on powers and all this goes away. If you can only fire Toads powers (active and passive) 1 or 2 times a turn he can't win on turn 0. Same for HE and all the other winfinites.

They really only need cool downs for PvP and they can not put cool downs on PvE (the solo game experience) so as to not annoy the entire player base.

Their is precedence for doing this. The original PQ game developed by Steve Fawkner patched the XBox PvP experience to add cool downs to powers to prevent players spamming to turn 0 wins (in a PvP where you really battled the other player, not an AI) which was every bit as bad there as it is here.

KGB

This specific problem goes away, yes, but you'd end up really devaluing cheap active powers, many of which are appropriately costed for their effect.

It's possible but quite unlikely if they do a reasonable job at it (everything doesn't have to be 1 or 2 times, some could be 3 or even 4). For example Ares Green is a cheap active power and if they set the cool down to 2 (max fire 2x a turn) would it really devalue that power? Has anyone fired it 3x in a turn (maybe as part of some winfinite)?

It should be possible to get the right values for cool downs fairly quickly (a couple of seasons). They can err on the side of caution (higher cool down values) and lower as needed to stop winfinites.

KGB

Ares drains all your green, you can only cast it once per turn (unless you have some weird support setup maybe?).

I was thinking about Luke Cage's black power, but I'm sure there are plenty of others.

Soul stone. It returns 5 ap in your strongest color when an enemy is downed , if ares is your strongest character he'll get green back.

Soul stone on ares, Atlantis on iron may, yaro root on third, ap supports. Start of with like 16 green and nuke whoever has the most health. Get 5 back, repeat, win. Matches last like 8 seconds

I see he has been toned downed down considerably and is still absolutely ridiculous.
If they changed it from ‘creates charged tiles in that colour’ to ‘changes basic tiles of that colour to charged tiles’ it would be perfectly fine, if slightly unexciting. No instant cascades…

Powers after ‘adjustments’
I don’t believe the black has changed at all?

@Gymp28 said:
To be fair I think it’s only toad vs toad matchups that still result in bonkers amounts of charged tiles

No, Toad's passive blue still works well by himself creating a bonker amounts of charged tiles with some like HE/SC/Ascended35Namor. Basically anyone who can create (and especially place) crits using Purple/Black/Blue and just rinse and repeat. Is it more bonkers with two Toads? Absolutely. But all it takes is one Toad, even with the new changes.

@Grantosium said:
I've just played the 4E node against the Peggy team with Hawkeye and Toad and we make so much purple it's barely noticeable that Peggy's tax is there. With GR2099 as well the whole enemy team is downed in about 4 firing of Hawkeye purple.

Had a thought the other day a bit like capping use of active powers: what if powers increased in cost for each time they were used and reset at beginning of turn? (I was particularly thinking of a possible rework for Quicksilver where rather than have his powers start at 8AP and get cheaper you have them start at 3 and increase by something like 5 minus the number of locked tiles for each time you've activated that turn.)

@KGB suggested something similar, but I think that change would just shift us back to a mostly-passive metagame.