Yet another overlapping PVE event...
The current PVE event is Webbed Wonder, and it won't be finished for another day or two.
In the meantime, the preview of the next PVE event, Deadpool vs MPQ, is visible, and it'll start roughly 6 hours 20 minutes from now.
This will mean that players are starting Deadpool vs MPQ a day before Webbed Wonder has concluded.
So instead of days that look like this...
- Webbed Wonder sub-event 1 ends and sub-event 2 starts
- WW sub-event 2 ends and sub-event 3 starts
- WW sub-even 3 ends and DPvsMPQ starts
...we will have days that look this:
- Webbed Wonder sub-event 1 ends and sub-event 2 starts
- WW sub-event 2 ends and sub-event 3 starts AND DPvsMPQ sub-event 1 starts
- WW sub-even 3 ends AND DPvsMPQ sub-event 1 continues
I realise that there are a small number of players who think that this is desirable but it isn't what the majority of players want, nor is it the norm.
It's especially disruptive for those who play for personal placement, and alliances who play for placement.
This could've all been avoided (and still can be avoided) if instead of starting a 4-day event today a 3-day event was started tomorrow.
Comments
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@Bullroarer said:
The current PVE event is Webbed Wonder, and it won't be finished for another day or two.In the meantime, the preview of the next PVE event, Deadpool vs MPQ, is visible, and it'll start roughly 6 hours 20 minutes from now.
This will mean that players are starting Deadpool vs MPQ a day before Webbed Wonder has concluded.
So instead of days that look like this...
- Webbed Wonder sub-event 1 ends and sub-event 2 starts
- WW sub-event 2 ends and sub-event 3 starts
- WW sub-even 3 ends and DPvsMPQ starts
...we will have days that look this:
- Webbed Wonder sub-event 1 ends and sub-event 2 starts
- WW sub-event 2 ends and sub-event 3 starts AND DPvsMPQ sub-event 1 starts
- WW sub-even 3 ends AND DPvsMPQ sub-event 1 continues
I realise that there are a small number of players who think that this is desirable but it isn't what the majority of players want, nor is it the norm.
It's especially disruptive for those who play for personal placement, and alliances who play for placement.
This could've all been avoided (and still can be avoided) if instead of starting a 4-day event today a 3-day event was started tomorrow.
I know this has already been said many times before, but so has what you state above:
There’s no need for you to even engage with Deadpool Vs MPQ if it’s going to disrupt your habits or need for optimum placement.
Absolutely it’s not the norm, and I think that’s the biggest issue here, is the disruption of habit.
However, everyone will be in the same boat, with having to pick one to prioritise for placement. Therefore, no-one is at a disadvantage, and it might shake up the top 25 a bit more than usual, which might actually encourage more people engage and to play for placement rather than just progression in the long run.3 -
Not sure why you came here to complain about this, lol.
Anyway hopefully they stop doing this because it does seem like a lot of people dislike it.
Or keep doing it and see if lots of people play more.
Either way.
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@Bullroarer said:
I realise that there are a small number of players who think that this is desirable but it isn't what the majority of players want, nor is it the norm.
This again. You have no way of knowing what the majority of players want. Did you poll all 50,000 daily MPQ players? Do you seriously think that the players who finish between 500-1000 in PvE will even notice this? That's half of all players!
If you don't like it, just say that you don't like it.
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I am pretty sure this negatively affects a tiny amount of players who are competing at the elite end of placement. Why would anybody else care, especially if they are playing for progression? I didn't even play day 1 of Webbed Wonder and have comfortably obtained full progression. I am sure If I go play DvMPQ I can do likewise regardless of overlap. So this probably matters to what, like the top 10? Everybody else is just carry on regardless.
3 -
@DAZ0273 said:
I am pretty sure this negatively affects a tiny amount of players who are competing at the elite end of placement. Why would anybody else care, especially if they are playing for progression? I didn't even play day 1 of Webbed Wonder and have comfortably obtained full progression. I am sure If I go play DvMPQ I can do likewise regardless of overlap. So this probably matters to what, like the top 10? Everybody else is just carry on regardless.Like when I scream about PvP stuff I fully accept that very few people want any of what I want. But you're allowed to ask for stuff that most players don't want! It's ok! Make the case for why it's good even if a majority don't care!
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@entrailbucket said:
@DAZ0273 said:
I am pretty sure this negatively affects a tiny amount of players who are competing at the elite end of placement. Why would anybody else care, especially if they are playing for progression? I didn't even play day 1 of Webbed Wonder and have comfortably obtained full progression. I am sure If I go play DvMPQ I can do likewise regardless of overlap. So this probably matters to what, like the top 10? Everybody else is just carry on regardless.Like when I scream about PvP stuff I fully accept that very few people want any of what I want. But you're allowed to ask for stuff that most players don't want! It's ok! Make the case for why it's good even if a majority don't care!
Sure you can ask, nobody saying you can't! But that doesn't make you the voice of everybody else, most of whom don't even care enough to come here and say so! So just own it - this inconvenienced ME, I need/want/demand it doesn't happen again! I still don't care but good luck with that.
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This one isn't a big deal. Deadpool vs mpq is the lazy 2 48 hour one. Just skip day 1 of the first half finish webbed wonder than do all.of the first bit of deadpool on Sunday
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@DAZ0273 said:
@entrailbucket said:
@DAZ0273 said:
I am pretty sure this negatively affects a tiny amount of players who are competing at the elite end of placement. Why would anybody else care, especially if they are playing for progression? I didn't even play day 1 of Webbed Wonder and have comfortably obtained full progression. I am sure If I go play DvMPQ I can do likewise regardless of overlap. So this probably matters to what, like the top 10? Everybody else is just carry on regardless.Like when I scream about PvP stuff I fully accept that very few people want any of what I want. But you're allowed to ask for stuff that most players don't want! It's ok! Make the case for why it's good even if a majority don't care!
Sure you can ask, nobody saying you can't! But that doesn't make you the voice of everybody else, most of whom don't even care enough to come here and say so! So just own it - this inconvenienced ME, I need/want/demand it doesn't happen again! I still don't care but good luck with that.
We're agreeing!
I realized we actually can make a decent estimate of how many players will be affected by this:
I play PvE off the clock, I just go to green checks on every fight. In CL10 I usually finish just outside the top 100. This means that the top 100 or so players, out of 1000, are grinding PvE -- about 10%. That's FAR from "most players" and actually represents a small minority.
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@entrailbucket said:
@DAZ0273 said:
@entrailbucket said:
@DAZ0273 said:
I am pretty sure this negatively affects a tiny amount of players who are competing at the elite end of placement. Why would anybody else care, especially if they are playing for progression? I didn't even play day 1 of Webbed Wonder and have comfortably obtained full progression. I am sure If I go play DvMPQ I can do likewise regardless of overlap. So this probably matters to what, like the top 10? Everybody else is just carry on regardless.Like when I scream about PvP stuff I fully accept that very few people want any of what I want. But you're allowed to ask for stuff that most players don't want! It's ok! Make the case for why it's good even if a majority don't care!
Sure you can ask, nobody saying you can't! But that doesn't make you the voice of everybody else, most of whom don't even care enough to come here and say so! So just own it - this inconvenienced ME, I need/want/demand it doesn't happen again! I still don't care but good luck with that.
We're agreeing!
I realized we actually can make a decent estimate of how many players will be affected by this:
I play PvE off the clock, I just go to green checks on every fight. In CL10 I usually finish just outside the top 100. This means that the top 100 or so players, out of 1000, are grinding PvE -- about 10%. That's FAR from "most players" and actually represents a small minority.
Similar to me in slice 4 but I play the extra one beyond the green tick. I'm just outside the 100 too. And I'm at least a few hours either side of the start/end time so not worried enough by overlaps.
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@Scofie said:
@entrailbucket said:
@DAZ0273 said:
@entrailbucket said:
@DAZ0273 said:
I am pretty sure this negatively affects a tiny amount of players who are competing at the elite end of placement. Why would anybody else care, especially if they are playing for progression? I didn't even play day 1 of Webbed Wonder and have comfortably obtained full progression. I am sure If I go play DvMPQ I can do likewise regardless of overlap. So this probably matters to what, like the top 10? Everybody else is just carry on regardless.Like when I scream about PvP stuff I fully accept that very few people want any of what I want. But you're allowed to ask for stuff that most players don't want! It's ok! Make the case for why it's good even if a majority don't care!
Sure you can ask, nobody saying you can't! But that doesn't make you the voice of everybody else, most of whom don't even care enough to come here and say so! So just own it - this inconvenienced ME, I need/want/demand it doesn't happen again! I still don't care but good luck with that.
We're agreeing!
I realized we actually can make a decent estimate of how many players will be affected by this:
I play PvE off the clock, I just go to green checks on every fight. In CL10 I usually finish just outside the top 100. This means that the top 100 or so players, out of 1000, are grinding PvE -- about 10%. That's FAR from "most players" and actually represents a small minority.
Similar to me in slice 4 but I play the extra one beyond the green tick. I'm just outside the 100 too. And I'm at least a few hours either side of the start/end time so not worried enough by overlaps.
Right, so let's say 10-15% of all players care about this at all.
Why do those players seem so convinced they represent a huge majority? And why should the devs be making urgent changes to address the concerns of such a small group?
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Putting aside whether it really matters or not to overlap PVEs, the key thing to consider is this:
This game is built and survives on habit formation. Encouraging us to log in and expect the same things at the same time to operate in the same way is crucial.
You log in, you do your thing, you check the offers (maybe) etc. The people who are here after all this time are mostly people who like routines and seek out that structure in some way. Some may shrug and adapt but others will feel frustrated and annoyed and therefore might change their habits around game engagement.
Your (dear fellow forumite) routine being different, being able to accommodate double or triple or quadruple PVEs does not invalidate anyone else's routine. The game threw out the routine of swapping for latests and started losing hundreds of thousands of dollars of revenue - PERMANENTLY, month after month, 1.5 years later - because whales decided, wisely, that spending the same amount of money wasn't worth it at all to them anymore without the ability to 550 the new character.
6s, so far, have at best (for one month) moved revenue up to a middling level prior to Dec 2024 so that's not solving any problem (yeah, I know. they don't bother to put offers up.).
There are extremely good reasons to move the events back a day but you're still disrupting patterns and habits that keep the game in business.
It may be that some rewards and offers are being tweaked upwards (the pass MIGHT be better than any standard one before now, I am not someone who has tracked that). But overall right now it seems like they're just changing things for purposes which benefit them, and disrupt many many players. And not really providing much benefit or compensation or acknowledgment (outside if you seek information about the game....outside the game).
The game is in a very risky spot right now, in my opinion, and minimizing disruption is the smartest move.
Casuals may not care at all and maybe everything goes ok, but the invested T100 players are probably a good 3000-5000 players. (SCL10 has 7 brackets where people at least somewhat try for T100, alone).
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@bluewolf I just don't think there's any evidence to support "This game is built and survives on habit formation." You're just making the same argument the other guy is: "everyone I know who plays MPQ wants the same things I want, therefore everyone who plays MPQ wants the same things I want."
Sure, that's probably true for the top-100 players, who cry about any tiny change that disrupts any part of their calcified routine. It's probably even true for the players who post on the forum or Discord or whatever. But if it's true for everyone, why haven't we seen thousands of complaints here? Why hasn't the playerbase cratered since Unity?
It's also worth pointing out that someone out there is still buying stuff (because their revenue isn't zero), but it's not the top 100 players. They're all boycotting still. Maybe the devs should try listening to the folks who are still spending.
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@entrailbucket said:
It's also worth pointing out that someone out there is still buying stuff (because their revenue isn't zero), but it's not the top 100 players. They're all boycotting still. Maybe the devs should try listening to the folks who are still spending.I’m a top 20 player who still spends. I spend just as much as before Unity. And I am surely annoyed by the overlapping PvEs and agree completely with the OP.
Does that mean I win?
Please let’s end this ridiculous argument. Opinions differ. Both sides have a reasonable point. But either side are claiming they represent a broader group than themselves. Or make broad swiping generalizations. Yes, you are too EB (see quote above).
Let’s stop the generalizations and ad hominem and agree to disagree?
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@Zarqa said:
@entrailbucket said:
It's also worth pointing out that someone out there is still buying stuff (because their revenue isn't zero), but it's not the top 100 players. They're all boycotting still. Maybe the devs should try listening to the folks who are still spending.I’m a top 20 player who still spends. I spend just as much as before Unity. And I am surely annoyed by the overlapping PvEs and agree completely with the OP.
Does that mean I win?
Please let’s end this ridiculous argument. Opinions differ. Both sides have a reasonable point. But either side are claiming they represent a broader group than themselves. Or make broad swiping generalizations. Yes, you are too EB (see quote above).
Let’s stop the generalizations and ad hominem and agree to disagree?
Is the boycott over then? If it's ended, then that would definitely give the devs a good reason to listen to top-whatever players. If it's not, does that mean you're crossing the picket line?
I don't claim to represent anyone besides me. None of us knows what a majority of players want, because none of us has asked a majority of players. If everybody stopped saying "most players want X," I'd be happy to stop correcting them.
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@bluewolf said:
Putting aside whether it really matters or not to overlap PVEs, the key thing to consider is this:This game is built and survives on habit formation. Encouraging us to log in and expect the same things at the same time to operate in the same way is crucial.
You log in, you do your thing, you check the offers (maybe) etc. The people who are here after all this time are mostly people who like routines and seek out that structure in some way. Some may shrug and adapt but others will feel frustrated and annoyed and therefore might change their habits around game engagement.
Your (dear fellow forumite) routine being different, being able to accommodate double or triple or quadruple PVEs does not invalidate anyone else's routine. The game threw out the routine of swapping for latests and started losing hundreds of thousands of dollars of revenue - PERMANENTLY, month after month, 1.5 years later - because whales decided, wisely, that spending the same amount of money wasn't worth it at all to them anymore without the ability to 550 the new character.
6s, so far, have at best (for one month) moved revenue up to a middling level prior to Dec 2024 so that's not solving any problem (yeah, I know. they don't bother to put offers up.).
There are extremely good reasons to move the events back a day but you're still disrupting patterns and habits that keep the game in business.
It may be that some rewards and offers are being tweaked upwards (the pass MIGHT be better than any standard one before now, I am not someone who has tracked that). But overall right now it seems like they're just changing things for purposes which benefit them, and disrupt many many players. And not really providing much benefit or compensation or acknowledgment (outside if you seek information about the game....outside the game).
The game is in a very risky spot right now, in my opinion, and minimizing disruption is the smartest move.
Casuals may not care at all and maybe everything goes ok, but the invested T100 players are probably a good 3000-5000 players. (SCL10 has 7 brackets where people at least somewhat try for T100, alone).
How will this affect top 100? They will still play. I bet they still get top 100 or thereabouts.
This constant representation on here by a tiny majority that they represent the majority of players needs challenging. I don't doubt that this is frustrating to them and their routines. I do doubt that any of this affects the amount of players you claim it does.
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@bluewolf said:
Putting aside whether it really matters or not to overlap PVEs, the key thing to consider is this:This game is built and survives on habit formation. Encouraging us to log in and expect the same things at the same time to operate in the same way is crucial.
You log in, you do your thing, you check the offers (maybe) etc. The people who are here after all this time are mostly people who like routines and seek out that structure in some way. Some may shrug and adapt but others will feel frustrated and annoyed and therefore might change their habits around game engagement.
Your (dear fellow forumite) routine being different, being able to accommodate double or triple or quadruple PVEs does not invalidate anyone else's routine. The game threw out the routine of swapping for latests and started losing hundreds of thousands of dollars of revenue - PERMANENTLY, month after month, 1.5 years later - because whales decided, wisely, that spending the same amount of money wasn't worth it at all to them anymore without the ability to 550 the new character.
6s, so far, have at best (for one month) moved revenue up to a middling level prior to Dec 2024 so that's not solving any problem (yeah, I know. they don't bother to put offers up.).
There are extremely good reasons to move the events back a day but you're still disrupting patterns and habits that keep the game in business.
It may be that some rewards and offers are being tweaked upwards (the pass MIGHT be better than any standard one before now, I am not someone who has tracked that). But overall right now it seems like they're just changing things for purposes which benefit them, and disrupt many many players. And not really providing much benefit or compensation or acknowledgment (outside if you seek information about the game....outside the game).
The game is in a very risky spot right now, in my opinion, and minimizing disruption is the smartest move.
Casuals may not care at all and maybe everything goes ok, but the invested T100 players are probably a good 3000-5000 players. (SCL10 has 7 brackets where people at least somewhat try for T100, alone).
Thank you @bluewolf for this common sense and well-thought out post. I agree on this.
Routine is underestimated. People just want the game to work first and foremost.
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Here's a direct quote from iceix back in 2023:
https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/comment/1016119
"Yeah, we see a lot here and on Reddit that "There are only 30/50/70K players, look at the event numbers!" which is totally not true, but is also really difficult to combat. There are a TON of players that only play DDQ, but play it religiously. Or that only play one PVE event a week, or only play PVP, etc. We've got a lot of casual players that just kind of disappear into the noise and make it seem like the total number of players is low, when if you look at unique users, it's much higher."
Yes, it definitely sounds like most players would be bothered by overlapping PvE!
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@LuxAurae said:
@bluewolf said:
Putting aside whether it really matters or not to overlap PVEs, the key thing to consider is this:This game is built and survives on habit formation. Encouraging us to log in and expect the same things at the same time to operate in the same way is crucial.
You log in, you do your thing, you check the offers (maybe) etc. The people who are here after all this time are mostly people who like routines and seek out that structure in some way. Some may shrug and adapt but others will feel frustrated and annoyed and therefore might change their habits around game engagement.
Your (dear fellow forumite) routine being different, being able to accommodate double or triple or quadruple PVEs does not invalidate anyone else's routine. The game threw out the routine of swapping for latests and started losing hundreds of thousands of dollars of revenue - PERMANENTLY, month after month, 1.5 years later - because whales decided, wisely, that spending the same amount of money wasn't worth it at all to them anymore without the ability to 550 the new character.
6s, so far, have at best (for one month) moved revenue up to a middling level prior to Dec 2024 so that's not solving any problem (yeah, I know. they don't bother to put offers up.).
There are extremely good reasons to move the events back a day but you're still disrupting patterns and habits that keep the game in business.
It may be that some rewards and offers are being tweaked upwards (the pass MIGHT be better than any standard one before now, I am not someone who has tracked that). But overall right now it seems like they're just changing things for purposes which benefit them, and disrupt many many players. And not really providing much benefit or compensation or acknowledgment (outside if you seek information about the game....outside the game).
The game is in a very risky spot right now, in my opinion, and minimizing disruption is the smartest move.
Casuals may not care at all and maybe everything goes ok, but the invested T100 players are probably a good 3000-5000 players. (SCL10 has 7 brackets where people at least somewhat try for T100, alone).
Thank you @bluewolf for this common sense and well-thought out post. I agree on this.
Routine is underestimated. People just want the game to work first and foremost.
Routine is actually severely overestimated. Who on here is underestimating routine?
0
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