Marvel Puzzle Quest: Character Rebalances Insights

@turbomoose said:
The game is becoming stagnant due to lack of new content, it has nothing to do with x and y being meta and being overused.

If you feel the need to nerf characters that’s fine but to also take out things like Kangveil will make even the new SCL 8 a massive grind for most rosters

I myself have been playing almost since the beginning and like to think I have a pretty good roster but there is no way I can take out 500-900k teams in less than an hour. Wasn’t we promised a quality of life balance with the new engine??

When you remove the Kangveil and other things like that I will still play but I won’t be able to compete with the larger rosters

Without wanting to give them ideas the solution to Kangveil is nerf Darkveil. That way you still have Kang available and there are teams that can help him if you can survive long enough without being the absolute cheese team Kangveil is. Which reminds me, I never use Kangveil myself so maybe I should do!

As also stated, there are teams that can take the CN down. The Skull/Zemo team I talked about are especially effective against minions because they also have a passive which overwrites countdown tiles. This pretty much neutered the Mindless Ones/Ninja/Goons in Strange Sights and hurts the Symbiotes too. Of course a team with nearly 2 million health and tile movers is going to be a top challenge and we have to accept this may be the reality moving forward.

@turbomoose said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@turbomoose said:
The game is becoming stagnant due to lack of new content, it has nothing to do with x and y being meta and being overused.

If you feel the need to nerf characters that’s fine but to also take out things like Kangveil will make even the new SCL 8 a massive grind for most rosters

I myself have been playing almost since the beginning and like to think I have a pretty good roster but there is no way I can take out 500-900k teams in less than an hour. Wasn’t we promised a quality of life balance with the new engine??

When you remove the Kangveil and other things like that I will still play but I won’t be able to compete with the larger rosters

Without wanting to give them ideas the solution to Kangveil is nerf Darkveil. That way you still have Kang available and there are teams that can help him if you can survive long enough without being the absolute cheese team Kangveil is. Which reminds me, I never use Kangveil myself so maybe I should do!

As also stated, there are teams that can take the CN down. The Skull/Zemo team I talked about are especially effective against minions because they also have a passive which overwrites countdown tiles. This pretty much neutered the Mindless Ones/Ninja/Goons in Strange Sights and hurts the Symbiotes too. Of course a team with nearly 2 million health and tile movers is going to be a top challenge and we have to accept this may be the reality moving forward.

I have a very effective team for Kang but I suspect the person I use in that team will get nerfed, along with aunt may etc

I will definitely try the Zemo team, I recently tried the 5* cap and 4jug team but I must be doing something wrong as I got nuked really quickly

Not sure which May you are talking about.

5* May is all about Supports and really is a PVE character but 3* May is broken beyond hope made worst by the fact you don't even need to ascend her to 5* (and are better off not doing so). Her low health is the main thing why she isn't a major problem to fight against. But they don't seem to have ascended characters on their chopping block likely because there hasn't been enough time for significant amounts of players to have them. With Kitty boosted this week, Sam/Juggs should be a decent team. Put low level AI on one of them and you should get boosted strike tiles through the roof assuming you have a 4a5 Juggs to tank for collateral.

Edit: Obviously assuming you are looking for PVE team.

@entrailbucket said:

@kuntilanak said:
Obviously the dev nerf those high usage ones so we spend MORE TIME in game, in hope that we spend... Useful characters will continue to see usage, while those terrible ones will continue being benched. That's just the way it is

Does spending more time in the game make you more likely to spend money? If not, why do you think it would make anybody else do that?

I don't know... I think I remembered reading about high engagement time in these type of games is beneficial to dev... Don't mind me. Just venting steam here...

@toecutter3095 said:
With their intent to target Kangveil and the like, they've now dropped all pretense that this is about balance and making opportunities for other characters to see some play. It is purely about making the game harder.

Presumably we will see the tap turned on full blast with offers for 6-stars to coincide with this because there is no other reason that makes sense. This is Marvel Puzzle Quest, not Marvel Dark Souls.

If their goal is to make it so that no character is clearly much much better than others, then that would mean the thing that determines what characters people are using is the boosts list.

If my team of boosted 5* characters can beat the challenge node in 5 or 6 turns, but kangveil with ap boosts and supports can beat it in 1 or 2 turns, then i can just use them to win everything for every event. If they want diversity of characters used, there can't be unboosted characters that can easily out compete the ones that are boosted.

Unboosted 4 stars should definitely not be a better option than boosted 5 stars.

@toecutter3095 said:
With their intent to target Kangveil and the like, they've now dropped all pretense that this is about balance and making opportunities for other characters to see some play. It is purely about making the game harder.

Presumably we will see the tap turned on full blast with offers for 6-stars to coincide with this because there is no other reason that makes sense. This is Marvel Puzzle Quest, not Marvel Dark Souls.

Doesn't the Darkveil team just immediately win every fight without doing anything?

Is it really a Puzzle Quest when you just show up to the fight with low level characters and win without moving the board, against enemies with like a billion HP?

@entrailbucket said:

@toecutter3095 said:
With their intent to target Kangveil and the like, they've now dropped all pretense that this is about balance and making opportunities for other characters to see some play. It is purely about making the game harder.

Presumably we will see the tap turned on full blast with offers for 6-stars to coincide with this because there is no other reason that makes sense. This is Marvel Puzzle Quest, not Marvel Dark Souls.

Doesn't the Darkveil team just immediately win every fight without doing anything?

Is it really a Puzzle Quest when you just show up to the fight with low level characters and win without moving the board, against enemies with like a billion HP?

I'm using 1a5's and Iron May in pick-3. I'm not even using health packs and the AI rarely gets a turn. The rebalances aren't working.

@Warbringa said:

@Borstock said:

@Warbringa said:
So I don't believe the devs thought about this very important factor:

By nerfing an meta character that is an important member of many teams, you will see other characters usage go down. This is why the fast wholesale nerfs are a very, very bad idea.

How can nerfing (tweaking?) one character at a time, two total, be described as "fast wholesale nerfs"?

They have already decided who they are nerfing and have batches, so this is not one character at a time. They already announced several more are coming. Have you not been paying attention? We already know Rocket and Shang Chi are next. In addition, some combo of Darkveil and/or Kang as well. The "tweaks" you speak of are nerfs, especially in context to the top PvP meta teams and the new SCL difficulties. The buffs are going to other characters, tbd if any of those really make a difference. I am not against nerfs, when necessary, but this do them all at once approach is asinine.

I don't think it's worth getting mad about stuff they haven't done yet. Knowing these guys, they'll never actually get around to the next batch.

@toecutter3095 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@toecutter3095 said:
With their intent to target Kangveil and the like, they've now dropped all pretense that this is about balance and making opportunities for other characters to see some play. It is purely about making the game harder.

Presumably we will see the tap turned on full blast with offers for 6-stars to coincide with this because there is no other reason that makes sense. This is Marvel Puzzle Quest, not Marvel Dark Souls.

Doesn't the Darkveil team just immediately win every fight without doing anything?

Is it really a Puzzle Quest when you just show up to the fight with low level characters and win without moving the board, against enemies with like a billion HP?

Yeah, that's not really how that team works, it is not a t0 win. Kang is the lynchpin in that team anyway. Without his alternate win condition, Darkveil is doing not much more than May Parker's dodge. You'll survive a little longer than you otherwise would, but not much.

When announced, the rebalances were supposedly to reshape the PVP meta. Kangveil is not part of that aspect of the game. So their reasoning from the outset has been disingenuous, it is just now that they have stopped pretending. That was the point that was being made.

They didn't mention PvP at all in the announcement:

"If you’ve been playing Marvel Puzzle Quest lately, you’ve probably noticed the same handful of characters dominating nearly every match. While strong characters are fun, when the meta feels predictable, creativity and strategy take a hit. To keep the game exciting and strategic, we’re planning a shake up with batched rebalances. Rather than making sweeping changes all at once, each batch will feature a variety of buffs for underused characters and carefully considered adjustments to one dominant character.

These tweaks aren’t about punishing players who’ve invested time building top-tier teams, they’re about creating more opportunities for strategy and variety across the roster. By carefully nerfing some of these top characters, we can reduce overreliance on a single character while keeping them strong and viable. At the same time, buffs for underused heroes and villains will encourage experimentation and make the game feel fresh."

Are you assuming their reference to a "meta" can only refer to PvP? PvE also has a metagame.

@Warbringa said:

@Borstock said:

@Warbringa said:
So I don't believe the devs thought about this very important factor:

By nerfing an meta character that is an important member of many teams, you will see other characters usage go down. This is why the fast wholesale nerfs are a very, very bad idea.

How can nerfing (tweaking?) one character at a time, two total, be described as "fast wholesale nerfs"?

They have already decided who they are nerfing and have batches, so this is not one character at a time. They already announced several more are coming. Have you not been paying attention? We already know Rocket and Shang Chi are next. In addition, some combo of Darkveil and/or Kang as well. The "tweaks" you speak of are nerfs, especially in context to the top PvP meta teams and the new SCL difficulties. The buffs are going to other characters, tbd if any of those really make a difference. I am not against nerfs, when necessary, but this do them all at once approach is asinine.

You and I are very wide apart on this.

Just because they have "batches" in mind, doesn't mean it's happening in batches or all that fast. It isn't. They've done 2. That's all. In, what? A month? That's not fast. They release characters faster than these nerfs are going live. You're getting more tools in that time than they are taking away.

There are also nerfs like what happened to OML, Gambit, Bishop, etc.... Those characters disappeared. They never came back to PvE or PvP. They're dead. They shipwrecked in the ocean of characters that never get played except the odd boost weeks.

Then there are nerfs like what has happened with mThor and Polaris. I still see them everywhere in PvP. I still use them effectively to do my PvE clears.

So, you call them divisive nerfs all you want. These are tweaks.

I've been highly critical of the devs recently. I've had more than one disagreement with bucket and others about it and how we choose to voice our dissatisfaction. But I totally disagree with your characterizations here.

@toecutter3095 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@toecutter3095 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@toecutter3095 said:
With their intent to target Kangveil and the like, they've now dropped all pretense that this is about balance and making opportunities for other characters to see some play. It is purely about making the game harder.

Presumably we will see the tap turned on full blast with offers for 6-stars to coincide with this because there is no other reason that makes sense. This is Marvel Puzzle Quest, not Marvel Dark Souls.

Doesn't the Darkveil team just immediately win every fight without doing anything?

Is it really a Puzzle Quest when you just show up to the fight with low level characters and win without moving the board, against enemies with like a billion HP?

Yeah, that's not really how that team works, it is not a t0 win. Kang is the lynchpin in that team anyway. Without his alternate win condition, Darkveil is doing not much more than May Parker's dodge. You'll survive a little longer than you otherwise would, but not much.

When announced, the rebalances were supposedly to reshape the PVP meta. Kangveil is not part of that aspect of the game. So their reasoning from the outset has been disingenuous, it is just now that they have stopped pretending. That was the point that was being made.

They didn't mention PvP at all in the announcement:

"If you’ve been playing Marvel Puzzle Quest lately, you’ve probably noticed the same handful of characters dominating nearly every match. While strong characters are fun, when the meta feels predictable, creativity and strategy take a hit. To keep the game exciting and strategic, we’re planning a shake up with batched rebalances. Rather than making sweeping changes all at once, each batch will feature a variety of buffs for underused characters and carefully considered adjustments to one dominant character.

These tweaks aren’t about punishing players who’ve invested time building top-tier teams, they’re about creating more opportunities for strategy and variety across the roster. By carefully nerfing some of these top characters, we can reduce overreliance on a single character while keeping them strong and viable. At the same time, buffs for underused heroes and villains will encourage experimentation and make the game feel fresh."

Are you assuming their reference to a "meta" can only refer to PvP? PvE also has a metagame.

_"If you’ve been playing Marvel Puzzle Quest lately, you’ve probably noticed the same handful of characters dominating nearly every match." _

I don't know about you but I don't see any other player's teams when I am playing PVE, so yeah, in this context the meta they are referring would have to be the PVP meta. Wouldn't it?

I think they'd have said "we are looking to reshape the PvP metagame." You took one line out of context and jumped to a conclusion.