Marvel Puzzle Quest: Character Rebalances Insights
Comments
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@entrailbucket said:
@BriMan2222 said:
I just started pvp and I'm still seeing the same people who usually run mthor/ pol, pol/brb, or shang/mthor still running those teams.So if their goal was so stop people using them, it doesn't look to be working. I guess those people didn't get the notice that they can't win with those teams anymore and should be quiting the game.
Since there was nothing about this communicated in the actual game, a lot of folks probably don't know they were changed.
If they haven't noticed, was there even a nerf?!?!? It's like the tree falling in a forest making a sound thing!
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@Bustapup said:
The very fact that s0kun felt compelled to make this post is frankly ridiculous and is a clear indicator of how unreasonable this community has become.
Anyone with an iota of sense can see that these characters have been (and arguably remain) extremely broken and detrimental to the health of the game.
The existence of a 'meta' in any game is bad news, it shows that something has fundamentally gone wrong with the balancing. There should never be a dominant 'meta,' especially one that has maintained a stranglehold on the game for years.
Every single nerf and balance update will be welcomed by me, even if it affects characters I love because if the game is properly balanced, it should mean every character remains viable.
Some people in here need to grow up, as the backlash to the Jane and Polaris changes has been genuinely embarrassing to read.
I don't think the community has "become" unreasonable -- that implies that it's changed. Some players just take the game WAY too seriously, and it's been that way for a very long time.
I can't tell exactly what you're up to with the "meta" thing. The devs have made their lives so much easier with the boost list, though, which is why this entire conversation should be unnecessary.
It's obviously a total copout, but randomly giving some subset of guys a massive boost every week means balancing is dead easy! You don't have to make sure everybody is balanced, you just have to get them within like 200 levels of each other, and you're done. You don't have to make Cable and m'Thor the same power level, you just have to make sure that Cable is clearly better than m'Thor when he's boosted.
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@Bustapup said:
Every single nerf and balance update will be welcomed by me, even if it affects characters I love because if the game is properly balanced, it should mean every character remains viable.The game will never be properly balanced, it's an impossibility with the amount of characters and variety in abilities. The concept is a snake eating its own tail.
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@amigopdude22 said:
@Bustapup said:
Every single nerf and balance update will be welcomed by me, even if it affects characters I love because if the game is properly balanced, it should mean every character remains viable.The game will never be properly balanced, it's an impossibility with the amount of characters and variety in abilities. The concept is a snake eating its own tail.
Exactly, so the devs finally implemented a system that makes it unnecessary. Instead of reworking like 250 characters, they have a handful of characters that are so good they're always usable regardless of the boost, and a double handful that are so bad they're not usable even when boosted.
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I think this is a very reasonable communication with reasonable responses to current issues.
There will always be complaints though. People will find a way to justify being upset.
Clint is my favorite comics character though so I’m just enjoying using the classic version.
Everything else just feels like noise at the moment.
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@LavaManLee said:
@Bustapup said:
The very fact that s0kun felt compelled to make this post is frankly ridiculous and is a clear indicator of how unreasonable this community has become.
Anyone with an iota of sense can see that these characters have been (and arguably remain) extremely broken and detrimental to the health of the game.
The existence of a 'meta' in any game is bad news, it shows that something has fundamentally gone wrong with the balancing. There should never be a dominant 'meta,' especially one that has maintained a stranglehold on the game for years.
Every single nerf and balance update will be welcomed by me, even if it affects characters I love because if the game is properly balanced, it should mean every character remains viable.
Some people in here need to grow up, as the backlash to the Jane and Polaris changes has been genuinely embarrassing to read.
Hard for me to disagree more. Let's just say what is detrimental to the game isn't the characters being used. What is detrimental to the game is what was done with Unity and how they are handling the affects of it to this day. Players using MT or Polaris over and over again aren't breaking this game. The devs have already done that and the community is paying for their mess. Since they don't seem to be able to competently fix the Unity debacle, they are flipping the script and messing with the characters.
Let's be honest.....there were huge problems with the game way before unity because of stupidly op characters and synergies
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@Bustapup said:
@LavaManLee said:
@Bustapup said:
The very fact that s0kun felt compelled to make this post is frankly ridiculous and is a clear indicator of how unreasonable this community has become.
Anyone with an iota of sense can see that these characters have been (and arguably remain) extremely broken and detrimental to the health of the game.
The existence of a 'meta' in any game is bad news, it shows that something has fundamentally gone wrong with the balancing. There should never be a dominant 'meta,' especially one that has maintained a stranglehold on the game for years.
Every single nerf and balance update will be welcomed by me, even if it affects characters I love because if the game is properly balanced, it should mean every character remains viable.
Some people in here need to grow up, as the backlash to the Jane and Polaris changes has been genuinely embarrassing to read.
Hard for me to disagree more. Let's just say what is detrimental to the game isn't the characters being used. What is detrimental to the game is what was done with Unity and how they are handling the affects of it to this day. Players using MT or Polaris over and over again aren't breaking this game. The devs have already done that and the community is paying for their mess. Since they don't seem to be able to competently fix the Unity debacle, they are flipping the script and messing with the characters.
Let's be honest.....there were huge problems with the game way before unity because of stupidly op characters and synergies
That has been the case since I first started playing not short of 10 years ago. Phoenix and OML, Panthos, Gambit, Gritty, Gritty + Bishop, Hawkeye & Worthy Cap, Thorkoye, Hulkoye, Switch/Colossus. Sorry I forget who came after that but you get the point. Polaris and Jane probably just hit the game at a point where there were so many options as partners that they became essential. But this isn't anything new.
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For a game with over 300 characters, the usage stats make it clear that a small handful are sitting in the double-digit percentage range across play, and from a balance standpoint that becomes unsustainable.
This is where some context is needed.
Is double-digit 10%?
Or is it 20% or higher?
The first case doesn’t seem so bad. That seems like typical gravitation towards best characters.
I would say there has never been a time in the entire history of this game when the usage of the best characters hasn’t been 10%.
The second case is more problematic if it’s 20% that leads to a stale predictable game experience.
My speculation is that threshold has only been reached rarely in the history of the game.So when the devs say double-digit that really depends on which two digits they’re talking about.
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@Colognoisseur said:
For a game with over 300 characters, the usage stats make it clear that a small handful are sitting in the double-digit percentage range across play, and from a balance standpoint that becomes unsustainable.
This is where some context is needed.
Is double-digit 10%?
Or is it 20% or higher?
The first case doesn’t seem so bad. That seems like typical gravitation towards best characters.
I would say there has never been a time in the entire history of this game when the usage of the best characters hasn’t been 10%.
The second case is more problematic if it’s 20% that leads to a stale predictable game experience.
My speculation is that threshold has only been reached rarely in the history of the game.So when the devs say double-digit that really depends on which two digits they’re talking about.
This is a very reasonable question but I doubt we will get an answer.
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@Bustapup said:
@LavaManLee said:
@Bustapup said:
The very fact that s0kun felt compelled to make this post is frankly ridiculous and is a clear indicator of how unreasonable this community has become.
Anyone with an iota of sense can see that these characters have been (and arguably remain) extremely broken and detrimental to the health of the game.
The existence of a 'meta' in any game is bad news, it shows that something has fundamentally gone wrong with the balancing. There should never be a dominant 'meta,' especially one that has maintained a stranglehold on the game for years.
Every single nerf and balance update will be welcomed by me, even if it affects characters I love because if the game is properly balanced, it should mean every character remains viable.
Some people in here need to grow up, as the backlash to the Jane and Polaris changes has been genuinely embarrassing to read.
Hard for me to disagree more. Let's just say what is detrimental to the game isn't the characters being used. What is detrimental to the game is what was done with Unity and how they are handling the affects of it to this day. Players using MT or Polaris over and over again aren't breaking this game. The devs have already done that and the community is paying for their mess. Since they don't seem to be able to competently fix the Unity debacle, they are flipping the script and messing with the characters.
Let's be honest.....there were huge problems with the game way before unity because of stupidly op characters and synergies
Again, completely disagree. The problems with this game, IMHO, have zero to do with stupidly op characters and synergies.
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Sincerely, you might be right, some of these chars are overpowered BUT IT DOES NOT MATTER, at least not at this point in the life of this game, you must undo the mThor nerf, lets us players who spend tons of time (and maybe even money) to get mThor to 500+ continue using her. The game is in a pretty terrible state, players are quitting, you cant give more reasons for players to quit.
Also you cant not release SCL10 with 700+ enemies and nerf every single tool we have to beat those nodes.
You can build balance at the 6 land, you are releasing a new batch of chars that are much stronger than 5s, so forget about 5s and 4s, it is what it is, leave it be. Build the future in 6 land.
I repeat again: Give people reasons to play, not reasons to quit!
So please, at the very least un-nerf mThor and forget about nerfs for now, until the game is in a much better spot. Buff some chars and that will give us reason to test other comps. But never forget, it takes months for most of us to build chars to levels we can use at SCL10
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@Colognoisseur said:
For a game with over 300 characters, the usage stats make it clear that a small handful are sitting in the double-digit percentage range across play, and from a balance standpoint that becomes unsustainable.
This is where some context is needed.
Is double-digit 10%?
Or is it 20% or higher?
The first case doesn’t seem so bad. That seems like typical gravitation towards best characters.
I would say there has never been a time in the entire history of this game when the usage of the best characters hasn’t been 10%.
The second case is more problematic if it’s 20% that leads to a stale predictable game experience.
My speculation is that threshold has only been reached rarely in the history of the game.So when the devs say double-digit that really depends on which two digits they’re talking about.
As Daz said, it's a reasonable question but we need a lot more context that just what you outlined.
Are they just measuring PvP or also PvE. If they are measuring PvE, why are they because that doesn't affect any other players experience (ie seeing same teams over and over) other than their own (and players very rarely complain about their PvE experience).
When they measure are they measuring across the whole player base (newbies and vets) or are they breaking it down into small chunks (by CL, by roster level etc). Polaris will see a ton more use early than Jane / Shang simply because she's a 4.
We'd need probably a big spreadsheet table to make sense of what they are measuring and how they are doing it.
KGB
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The other reason why the re-balancing hasn't gone well is due to a lack of detail regarding the other characaters. We know which characters got a nerf or buff, we didn't know exactly where that balance was coming from. Was it their match damage, a rewriting of one of their abilities, an entire ability revamp, a damage nerf/buff/adjustment, new passives - they were literally a complete mystery, which prompted me in the first batch update to list those changes in a post not too long ago.
Regarding the posts clarifying the detailed changes and reasoning to Polaris and Jane Foster-Thor, those posts were definitely necessary and welcomed. But I feel that the other minor characters who are undergoing a revision should also be shined upon even if it's just a small paragraph that covers a major move revision.
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Let's get this straight. You realized that creating game-breakingly powerful characters was a mistake, and then you gave unlimited use to 1* Hawkeye with Batch1? This is truly ridiculous. Even while announcing this policy, you continue to create game-breaking characters with your changes. Either your team is so bad that they can't see the impact of character powers on the game, or you're just saying these things for nothing. People are angry just about this
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@ThaRoadWarrior said:
@Gymp28 said:
@ThaRoadWarrior said:
I would say that cranking up the SCL10 difficulty while chopping the legs out from under the force multipliers is probably a thin line to balance on for player retention. I don’t mean that in any sort of ominous way, just saying that if you double the width of the trees and grind the edges off our axes it doesn’t equal out to a feeling of improvement really.I don’t know at what stage your roster is, but I think it’s entirely reasonable to say that not everyone should expect to be able to complete the new SCL 9 and 10 with ease. Isn’t that the point of a harder difficulty: to present a challenge?
It’s something to strive towards, and when you get there you can feel like you’ve really earned those rewards.
Plenty of tools in the drawer besides the now (only slightly) blunted axe.I have options, I don’t really use the nerfed characters that much outside of Polaris who I just like for tile spam for a number of reasons. I purposely have been letting RNG build my roster evenly, my in game name is m4x in WillowWatch if you want to check it. But my highest natural characters are 499, so it’s more that the new SCL difficulty takes longer than that it is incompletable. And even that is fine really. I am more just saying that as we replace the swords with letter openers and the axes with I don’t know, dull axes I guess, it just starts to feel like artificial throttling rather than natural difficulty.
I took a look at your roster. Definitely agree that you can handle SCL10.
Mine aren’t the fastest clears there either. I’ve never been super competitive, but the vast majority of awards are for progression in any case. There’s definitely a tipping point where the average player would probably prefer a bit less time on MPQ and a bit more for other things each day, so I do get the need for some degree of speed.Might I suggest Magneto5 w Kimoyo beads (3+), Onslaught w Mirror image (5) and 3*Namor (ascension not necessary) w Atlantis (1+)
Certainly with Mags boosted currently they’re doing solid work on all the tough pick 3 nodes, and not taking excessively long. Plus pre-nerf MThor would be very jealous of this level of cascading.0 -
Obviously the dev nerf those high usage ones so we spend MORE TIME in game, in hope that we spend... Useful characters will continue to see usage, while those terrible ones will continue being benched. That's just the way it is
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Well Iron Man in the Challenge Node third clear for Venom Bomb has like 993k health! The whole enemy team isn't too far from 2 million health in total! I managed to take out the 4th clear of the CN in Strange Sights with my Red Skull/Zemo team but they only had a 1.3 million combined health so had to Kang this one!
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@DAZ0273 said:
Well Iron Man in the Challenge Node third clear for Venom Bomb has like 993k health! The whole enemy team isn't too far from 2 million health in total! I managed to take out the 4th clear of the CN in Strange Sights with my Red Skull/Zemo team but they only had a 1.3 million combined health so had to Kang this one!What is the game play for Skull/Zemo? Curious what matches need to happen to make it work. Thanks!
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The game is becoming stagnant due to lack of new content, it has nothing to do with x and y being meta and being overused.
If you feel the need to nerf characters that’s fine but to also take out things like Kangveil will make even the new SCL 8 a massive grind for most rosters
I myself have been playing almost since the beginning and like to think I have a pretty good roster but there is no way I can take out 500-900k teams in less than an hour. Wasn’t we promised a quality of life balance with the new engine??
When you remove the Kangveil and other things like that I will still play but I won’t be able to compete with the larger rosters
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@LavaManLee said:
@DAZ0273 said:
Well Iron Man in the Challenge Node third clear for Venom Bomb has like 993k health! The whole enemy team isn't too far from 2 million health in total! I managed to take out the 4th clear of the CN in Strange Sights with my Red Skull/Zemo team but they only had a 1.3 million combined health so had to Kang this one!What is the game play for Skull/Zemo? Curious what matches need to happen to make it work. Thanks!
They combine with Hydra tiles, Skull especially putting plenty down and the damage just seems to go nuts. I'm not even sure what is happening but it hits hard. Zemo's black can then make Skull's blue cheap which burst heals Skull and does extra damage per special tile. Zemo can put down special tiles with his purple. I don't have Viper champed but I used the loaner and she just adds to the chaos and her green can then really hit hard. Skull's power all add Hydra tiles and Zemo's yellow too. The synergy is real. It of course helps with Skull being boosted right now. I imagine Skull and Zemo at 550 will melt a lot of teams. I can imagine others can fine tune this for you a lot more than I can. I also used Toni with them and that combined well too with repeater shenanigans.
The Devs really took on board the affiliation synergy concept with these characters.
I am not so keen on this team with Arnim Zola as he turns Zemo's strikes onto attack tiles.
Just a shame this is team evil! 😐
3
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