I really can’t enjoy PVP anymore.

Mr_F
Mr_F Posts: 747 Critical Contributor
in MPQ General Discussion

To be honest, never did enjoyed it that much. And by that I mean that is I am not a much of competetive player so I do not see any joy in trying to be as high as possible in PVP. Don’t have time for chasing that rabbit. Don’t have and do not want to have. For me it’s pointless Sisyphean work.

Even though, I kinda liked simulator. And I kinda liked low PTS pick 2 PVPs. Past tense is intended. I do not like it anymore. Maybe a bit. Like 2 out of 10. 3 at best. But there was a time I liked it. What time it was? Well… when I could divide PVP journey into 3 ranges.

1st, The Variety Range was where everybody has started the journey. A place when retaliations and hits were scarse. In pick 2 it was right between 400-500 pts at best scenario. In simulator, up to 1200 pts. At that place I could see like few dozens of different characters, no matter if I was and 4* range, early 5* or fully fledge 5*. An no matter the boosted list.

That place was ending at point when The Wall Range was starting. It was a place where either your roster was not strong enough to beat what ya see so you skipped a lot or when your „best” team was becoming just cannon fodder for those with „better” rosters so you wake up with ~-100 pts, back into the Variety Range if not shielded.

Beyond that was Top range, or meta range. A place achievable only by those who had „current best of the best of the best”. Thorkoye Meta. Gritty Meta. Switch Meta. Hulkoye Meta. The place when ya have to know what to do to the job and get highe(er). Place I was always skipping and will be,

So every PVP I could just pick whatever I had „strongest” and roll into and do the basics: 12-16 wins in pick 2 and 50 wins in Simulator. I remember times when I was entering 5* land with Wasp during Hukchasm Meta. Back then, one of two if not worst 5* there was. Before BB Hulk rework. And I still have managed to do the stuff. I remmeber times when „all those whatever-koye” meta were beyond me.

Right now, for me, at best scenario, the starting point is The Wall Range. Every PVP I see same teams: same boosted 5*, mThor/SC/Polaris/3a4* May teams in pick 2 and ~15 same charas in simulator – mThor/Polaris/SC/OR/Chasm based teams. And dare I use something „fun”/diffirent. Bang! -100 pts before I turn of cellphone.

So… I have new Betsy already champed. Decided to ascend her before one of my previous choices (one of these [haven’t picked yet -still working on X-23]: Dazzler, Wolfsbane, Domino, Coleen, Mantis, Quake and Valkyrie). Been testing her in Simulator. „Testing” is a bit of exxagaration. mThor teams fire powers before I collect enough AP to fire one. Casual cascaded into 10-30k damage. Don’t even enter Polaris teams. Enemy denying right collors what too often. And the „Variety teams” are way to scarce. Don’t even ask me about pick 2 when mThor/SC can randomly do 300k damage in round 2 or 1*Juggs nukes you round 1.

Results? 300 characters to use is an illusions. Tinikitty PVP. I skip simulator unless I need extra point to reach 4k in season and go straight for wins in pick 2 with whatever I will want and can use to get my wins. Those few estra covers, shards and ISO aren’t worth the effort. And I really think that what I did with Wasp back then is no longer possible. PVP has changed. To be less diverse I have ever seen.

Or just maybe I have have reached the point when those "whatever-koye" is no longer beyond me. Who knows?

Comments

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,134 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 27 January 2025, 23:01

    Before you give up completely...all of the points ranges you specified are variable. What you see at those point levels will change dramatically based on the slice (end time) you choose, and the specific time of day you are playing (as well as various other conditions that aren't quite as important).

    You don't care about competing so you won't be playing at the end time you choose anyway -- you can select any end time. Try all 5 of the different ones, and see if there's one that works out better for you.

  • WhiteBomber
    WhiteBomber Posts: 451 Mover and Shaker
    edited 28 January 2025, 00:47

    I have the complete opposite experience, I've never seen this much variety in the pick 2. However, SIM has absolutely devolved in to RedMaysm or people silly enough to run MTholaris.

    Perhaps you've just leveled too high, where it makes sense you would only see the strongest. The one difference I could see is, back before I took a break, Polaris didn't exist, so there was at least 2 other characters you'd fight against rather than just her when you were a lower level.

    However, from what I can remember aaaaaaall the way back to the beginning, this was always the case. Entrail and I still reminisce on the never ending Hood, Sentry, IW etc. etc. etc. Hell, even BW 2star was every match for me at one point, and she was the worst.

    If you don't like it, then pick whoever you want and party it up. If you are getting stomped regularly, it's likely you can just adjust 1 to 2 things to increase your odds dramatically. Everything has a decent counter, with the exception of RedMaysm, they still dominate with the least successful ways to snuff out (though still beatable, you just need to be very prepared).

  • WhiteBomber
    WhiteBomber Posts: 451 Mover and Shaker

    Unfortunately none of the Ant Universe are strong or good counters to anything though (other than maybe counters to winning?)

  • kuntilanak
    kuntilanak Posts: 94 Match Maker

    To me, PVP became a chore when I just dipped into 5* land with few baby champs. Then when mThor, chasm and such 'cheap' metas reign supreme, it's worst in terma of variety and strategy. When they allow the use of support in PVP, that's when PVP is truely dead to me.

  • Bzhai
    Bzhai Posts: 532 Critical Contributor
    edited 28 January 2025, 05:23

    @kuntilanak said:
    To me, PVP became a chore when I just dipped into 5* land with few baby champs. Then when mThor, chasm and such 'cheap' metas reign supreme, it's worst in terma of variety and strategy. When they allow the use of support in PVP, that's when PVP is truely dead to me.

    This.

    For awhile it was manageble, but now that everyone has had time to catch up on meta supports it is unbearable. Have you tried going up against Mthor teams with Fantasticars, Leapfrogs and Omnipotence City supports? I've had fights where I had to wait almost 2 minutes for my opponent to finish their cascades.

  • revskip
    revskip Posts: 1,036 Chairperson of the Boards

    The thing about PvP is that it is really a bunch of different things to different groups of players.

    There are collaborative players who push for higher scores in slices 1 and 4 by coordinating their efforts. Placement in those slices requires a lot of shielding and hopping to get to the massive scores you'll need for placement but there are multiple avenues to get there if you don't mind using Line. In those same slices there are also folks who don't coordinate but enjoy higher scores by leeching off of the folks coordinating (some of them even brag about it on these forums). And a third group of folks who are actively trying to suppress scores and rack up win totals to farm covers and cause chaos. Finally in those two slices there are many, many people who are not involved in any of those groups and are just popping in for a set amount of matches or a target score for rewards. Each has its own play style and players.

    There are also the folks who enjoy bloodbath slices like slice 2 where high scores are all but impossible but placement is fairly easy for the bigger rosters. That has its own ecosystem as well although I don't spend much time in that slice because for my playstyle it feels kind of boring.

    For me PvP is the fun mode of the game. A major part of that for me is the communities on Line. Without those I probably wouldn't still be playing. I don't really enjoy PvE much, for me it is a literal grind I do each day to get the resources to make playing PvP more enjoyable. I do enjoy Boss events for the coordination aspect as well although most of that happens on day 1 and is then set and forget. But for me nothing is as rewarding as the excitement of being out as a high point target, helping the folks in my community also achieve higher scores by coordinating and doing so in a quick fashion that doesn't allow for others to snag too many points from me as I jump from shield to shield.

  • LavaManLee
    LavaManLee Posts: 1,500 Chairperson of the Boards

    If placement doesn't matter, then play for wins. That's what I do. I try to get the 25 wins and then stop. And, if you play for wins, it doesn't matter if you are hit. In fact, being hit and losing points can help because you will drop in ranking and see "easier" teams than if you weren't hit.

    And, as @entrailbucket said, try different slices and see what you like.

  • WhiteBomber
    WhiteBomber Posts: 451 Mover and Shaker

    I just found and crushed my first 3-5 Namor Frog, Baku5 Car, that felt nice. As people ascend more the variety will also likely rise with it, I reckon.

  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 4,009 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 31 January 2025, 13:57

    @WhiteBomber said:
    Everything has a decent counter, with the exception of RedMaysm

    What about Goose as a counter?

  • BriMan2222
    BriMan2222 Posts: 1,388 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 31 January 2025, 14:06

    @Daredevil217 said:

    @WhiteBomber said:
    Everything has a decent counter, with the exception of RedMaysm

    What about Goose as a counter?

    That is exactly what I use as a counter. Polaris, 5* Goose, and Wanda. Make sure goose is in the middle so she starts tanking hits and popping out strikes immediately. Kill May first, usually she goes down on one match with a strike tile in it. Then take out OR, then chasm.

    Omega Red, Okoye, and electro also work but not quite as well since if the board starts with a match 5, chasm can match damage some one death right away. That is much less likely to happen with goose's damage reduction. If no one gets killed on turn one, it is much quicker though.

  • WhiteBomber
    WhiteBomber Posts: 451 Mover and Shaker

    @Daredevil217 said:

    @WhiteBomber said:
    Everything has a decent counter, with the exception of RedMaysm

    What about Goose as a counter?

    I've tried many variations with Goose, unfortunately she doesn't add to the synergy enough that all 3 of your team come out healthy. She can win, but the other 2 will likely suffer.

    There isn't really a pick 2 that can reliably counter them, it requires all 3 characters to be very specific, and even then, you still need to get lucky while taking longer to kill them. I made a dedicated thread for this very topic a month back or so. You can come out of that fight full health on all 3, but it requires a perfect 3 person counter (+some luck), and in my experience, no other team requires that type of perfection.

    However, there are of course many other characters out there we haven't tested / ascended, IE: DocOc4 will permanently shut Red down as soon as you match black, hell, even the 99% useless Spidergoblin will lock his countdowns on his 1st turn, giving you 2 turns to do something.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,134 Chairperson of the Boards

    @WhiteBomber said:

    @Daredevil217 said:

    @WhiteBomber said:
    Everything has a decent counter, with the exception of RedMaysm

    What about Goose as a counter?

    I've tried many variations with Goose, unfortunately she doesn't add to the synergy enough that all 3 of your team come out healthy. She can win, but the other 2 will likely suffer.

    There isn't really a pick 2 that can reliably counter them, it requires all 3 characters to be very specific, and even then, you still need to get lucky while taking longer to kill them. I made a dedicated thread for this very topic a month back or so. You can come out of that fight full health on all 3, but it requires a perfect 3 person counter (+some luck), and in my experience, no other team requires that type of perfection.

    However, there are of course many other characters out there we haven't tested / ascended, IE: DocOc4 will permanently shut Red down as soon as you match black, hell, even the 99% useless Spidergoblin will lock his countdowns on his 1st turn, giving you 2 turns to do something.

    I actually don't see this team in sim ever (no idea why, almost everything I see in sim is some combination of Chasm, Colossus, Omega Red, 4* Juggernaut at 550, and Agatha, and I'm starting to see 550 M'baku) but in sim I run Coulson/Riri/Kang against everything, even the most obnoxious defensive troll teams, and it rolls right over them quickly.

    All 3 of mine are 550, but I don't see why it wouldn't work at lower levels. You would need 5* Coulson, but he's so strong I can't imagine waiting to ascend him.

    Boost 4 green (yeah...I know, it can be expensive), stun them your first turn, then just watch the AP rack up as CDs go off. You should be able to Away whoever's worst on the next turn, and the turn after that, the game is over.

    The best counter to Omega Red is still "get rid of him as fast as possible." Every other counter requires compromising on offense and potentially getting stuck and eating a big pile of damage anyway.

  • WhiteBomber
    WhiteBomber Posts: 451 Mover and Shaker

    With that team you would lose an unrecoverable (roughly) 21K team health on turn 1 due to the Chasm stun and boosted Red, and if it goes off twice, ouchies.

    Assuming all of your team is 550 that might not be as bad, but to me that still not sustainable / a good counter. It can definitely win, I personally just consider a counter to be something that is sustainable, or not regularly needing health packs.

    In my experience, any variation without Chasm becomes much more manageable. Good to know once you get to the top there may be less of that combination, because that is mostly all I see.

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