New Character - Hobgoblin (Roderick Kingsley) 5*

Daredevil217

Also, I like the design of Hobby but think he’s just too slow in today’s meta game.

I love that he can spam clones that throw random pumpkin bombs to create mass chaos. And as stuff expires/explodes he does more damage. That is very character-accurate and honestly seems fun! I also like that his clones get wiped out and heal him when they do, giving him a little staying power and an annoyance factor on defense.

However, A 3-turn repeater is DOA as Danvers taught us. A three turn repeater that creates a 2-turn countdown that does something random seems even more DOA, but we’ll have to see it in practice. But those repeaters negating all damage when you try to one shot him will be more annoying than people think.

Edit: re-read and Hobs gets the effect when the repeater reaches zero and doesn’t place a CD. That speeds up his purple a bit at least.

ThisisClemFandango

I bet mysterio is his feeder
They might as well give me a few good kicks while I'm already down.
I think they hate me.

DAZ0273

I think they forgot he was originally going to be a 4* and left his power levels there.> @Rejoinder said:

I'd give him a shot. I'm not a fan of the dull meta teams, so I enjoy enabler characters like this, who tend to have a lot of opportunities for strange combos.

My guess for feeder? Mysterio.

They could use Agent Venom - Flash Thompson was once accused/framed of being Hobgoblin in the comic books.

SithShaft

For the first time in forever, I was actually looking forward to a new character release tie in. DD is the most anticipated marvel entity since the last Spider-Man movie. But alas disappointment strikes again and we get some unrelated 5* garbage that just falls in line as another unusable collection guy.

DAZ0273

@entrailbucket said:

@Daredevil217 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@Daredevil217 said:
Do you really think 1500+ damage to all teammate match damage with a built in leap-frog charge PER teammmate is an accident when most characters cap out way lower? Like seriously? And many of these match damage monsters are THE meta characters in the game.

Captain Britain +780% max in strong colors with 18 stored AP.
Karnak- +560% after 4 turns
Ikaris +380% when airborne to enemy in back
IHulk +378% (after many deaths)
MBaku +300% (and 3% for each % health gone)
Ghost +300%
Juggernaut/Doop +225%
Chasm +220% max (I think? Not sure how he works)
Rhino +200% in strong colors
Thanos +175% (when CD out)
3* Namor +125% bonus damage with bottom 5 match
Colossus +125%
Adam Warlock +113%
Dark Beast +57% per black AP
America Chavez/Doop +30% per AP in that color
Headpool +30% bonus damage per match

Teammate boosts:
Iron May 150%
Agatha +30% per teammate match
The Hunter +90% for 3 AP (tied to a CD)
Cyclops +75% for 7 AP

Then there’s Sidewinder… lol.

There’s no way you look at that match damage meta, the leapfrog meta, say “let’s combine these things but pump them up astronomically, and be “surprised” when you “accidentally” make a meta character. I can’t believe some of the things I read.

Actually I think they copied a number wrong on Sidewinder's design. But yes, I don't believe they make good or bad characters on purpose. There is absolutely no evidence that they do that -- they have every incentive to make every character very strong, and in fact they claim that all new characters and rebalances are meant to be equally strong.

They don't understand their own game, or at least they're clueless about high level play. There's a mountain of evidence of this over the years.

I see what you’re saying. If it’s a clerical error and they made a mistake by hitting a wrong button or inputting the wrong value, sure. Then they’ll fix it (spoiler- they won’t fix it).

But if you are saying they meant to give him 1500% match damage and built-in frog powers and didn’t know he’d be instant meta because they “don’t under their own game”… that I strongly disagree with.

These are two different kinds of “mistakes”. A clerical error is different than not understanding their own game.

No, Sidewinder is so ridiculously far ahead of the curve that I just cannot believe they did that on purpose.

But in general I don't think they make "meta" characters on purpose. Do we really think they did Chasm on purpose? Didn't they actually acknowledge he was a mistake in the nerf post?

I thought they acknowledged that they did Chasm on purpose? This is what they said, it is sort of hard to work out as it seems they are saying they knew he was special but then were still surprised that he was special:

When we designed Chasm, we wanted to do something new and interesting - and we did! Chasm’s a cool character, and we still love how his kit came together; unfortunately, Chasm performed too well, especially paired with other characters that could repeatedly revive. Our goal with this rebalance is to tone down the parts of his kit that aren’t fun to play against (including his damage) while ensuring he’s still an interesting character to play with - and against!

GrimSkald

@Daredevil217 said:
Also, I like the design of Hobby but think he’s just too slow in today’s meta game.

I love that he can spam clones that throw random pumpkin bombs to create mass chaos. And as stuff expires/explodes he does more damage. That is very character-accurate and honestly seems fun! I also like that his clones get wiped out and heal him when they do, giving him a little staying power and an annoyance factor on defense.

However, A 3-turn repeater is DOA as Danvers taught us. A three turn repeater that creates a 2-turn countdown that does something random seems even more DOA, but we’ll have to see it in practice. But those repeaters negating all damage when you try to one shot him will be more annoying than people think.

Edit: re-read and Hobs gets the effect when the repeater reaches zero and doesn’t place a CD. That speeds up his purple a bit at least.

1 turn repeaters are good - they fire a few times before being destroyed. 2 turns tend to be pretty meh - they frequently fire only once or twice before going away so there's little functional difference between them and Countdowns. 3 turn repeaters are next to useless - they may as well be CDs for as often as they get to repeat or even fire in the first place. Unless they do something else as well (re: Agatha,) they're very much not worthwhile.

I wish they'd build this fact into their character budget more...

MegaBee

@DAZ0273 said:
Boo hiss double boo hiss. 🙁🙁🙁🙄

Just imagining how awesome Paste Pot Pete would've been...

rainkingucd

@MegaBee said:

@DAZ0273 said:
Boo hiss double boo hiss. 🙁🙁🙁🙄

Just imagining how awesome Paste Pot Pete would've been...

Do you not see how this was actually designed as Paste Pot Pete, but they had to panic and pivot and make it Goblin related?

Ability: Decoys and Dopplegangers
Create 1 3 turn Decoy Repeater tile(s) that will fire a random Pumpkin Bomb effect from New Gob, New Tricks

I mean, those are clearly Paste Pot traps! Create Paste statue replicas of Paste Pot Pete to trick the enemy while Pete recovers

Ability: New Gob, New Tricks
Hobgoblin’s Purple Pumpkin Bombs steal 2 AP amongst Hobgoblin’s strongest colors.
Hobgoblin’s Yellow Pumpkin Bombs create 3 strength 164 Yellow Attack tiles.
Hobgoblin’s Red Pumpkin Bombs deal 2 hits of 1085 damage.
Hobgoblin’s Blue Pumpkin Bombs stun a random Unstunned enemy for 1 turn(s).
Hobgoblin’s Green Pumpkin Bombs deal 354 team damage and destroy surrounding non-friendly tiles (Destroyed tiles do not deal damage or generate AP).
Hobgoblin’s Black Pumpkin Bombs create 2 strength 171 Black Strike tiles.

The Trapster is prepared for any situation! Pete's evolution means variable traps at the ready.

Ability: Behind the Schemes
Choose to Bide or Exploit. If Bide is chosen, add 1 turn to the timer of every friendly Countdown or Repeater tile and Fortify up to 2 friendly Countdown or Repeater tiles. If Exploit is chosen, reduce their timers by 1 and deal 177 plus 89 team damage for each tile reduced.

Sticky or Soluble? Pete has the solution!

entrailbucket

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@Daredevil217 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@Daredevil217 said:
Do you really think 1500+ damage to all teammate match damage with a built in leap-frog charge PER teammmate is an accident when most characters cap out way lower? Like seriously? And many of these match damage monsters are THE meta characters in the game.

Captain Britain +780% max in strong colors with 18 stored AP.
Karnak- +560% after 4 turns
Ikaris +380% when airborne to enemy in back
IHulk +378% (after many deaths)
MBaku +300% (and 3% for each % health gone)
Ghost +300%
Juggernaut/Doop +225%
Chasm +220% max (I think? Not sure how he works)
Rhino +200% in strong colors
Thanos +175% (when CD out)
3* Namor +125% bonus damage with bottom 5 match
Colossus +125%
Adam Warlock +113%
Dark Beast +57% per black AP
America Chavez/Doop +30% per AP in that color
Headpool +30% bonus damage per match

Teammate boosts:
Iron May 150%
Agatha +30% per teammate match
The Hunter +90% for 3 AP (tied to a CD)
Cyclops +75% for 7 AP

Then there’s Sidewinder… lol.

There’s no way you look at that match damage meta, the leapfrog meta, say “let’s combine these things but pump them up astronomically, and be “surprised” when you “accidentally” make a meta character. I can’t believe some of the things I read.

Actually I think they copied a number wrong on Sidewinder's design. But yes, I don't believe they make good or bad characters on purpose. There is absolutely no evidence that they do that -- they have every incentive to make every character very strong, and in fact they claim that all new characters and rebalances are meant to be equally strong.

They don't understand their own game, or at least they're clueless about high level play. There's a mountain of evidence of this over the years.

I see what you’re saying. If it’s a clerical error and they made a mistake by hitting a wrong button or inputting the wrong value, sure. Then they’ll fix it (spoiler- they won’t fix it).

But if you are saying they meant to give him 1500% match damage and built-in frog powers and didn’t know he’d be instant meta because they “don’t under their own game”… that I strongly disagree with.

These are two different kinds of “mistakes”. A clerical error is different than not understanding their own game.

No, Sidewinder is so ridiculously far ahead of the curve that I just cannot believe they did that on purpose.

But in general I don't think they make "meta" characters on purpose. Do we really think they did Chasm on purpose? Didn't they actually acknowledge he was a mistake in the nerf post?

I thought they acknowledged that they did Chasm on purpose? This is what they said, it is sort of hard to work out as it seems they are saying they knew he was special but then were still surprised that he was special:

When we designed Chasm, we wanted to do something new and interesting - and we did! Chasm’s a cool character, and we still love how his kit came together; unfortunately, Chasm performed too well, especially paired with other characters that could repeatedly revive. Our goal with this rebalance is to tone down the parts of his kit that aren’t fun to play against (including his damage) while ensuring he’s still an interesting character to play with - and against!

That's about how I remember it. I read this as referring to his all-passive/AP denial stuff, which was certainly new and interesting.

It's possible that the problem is the infamous "power budget" -- if it overestimates some things and underestimates others (or doesn't count them at all!), that could cause this problem. I doubt they have a way of putting a value on things like "resurrects infinitely for free" or "explodes the entire board every turn."

DAZ0273

@rainkingucd said:

@MegaBee said:

@DAZ0273 said:
Boo hiss double boo hiss. 🙁🙁🙁🙄

Just imagining how awesome Paste Pot Pete would've been...

Do you not see how this was actually designed as Paste Pot Pete, but they had to panic and pivot and make it Goblin related?

Ability: Decoys and Dopplegangers
Create 1 3 turn Decoy Repeater tile(s) that will fire a random Pumpkin Bomb effect from New Gob, New Tricks

I mean, those are clearly Paste Pot traps! Create Paste statue replicas of Paste Pot Pete to trick the enemy while Pete recovers

Ability: New Gob, New Tricks
Hobgoblin’s Purple Pumpkin Bombs steal 2 AP amongst Hobgoblin’s strongest colors.
Hobgoblin’s Yellow Pumpkin Bombs create 3 strength 164 Yellow Attack tiles.
Hobgoblin’s Red Pumpkin Bombs deal 2 hits of 1085 damage.
Hobgoblin’s Blue Pumpkin Bombs stun a random Unstunned enemy for 1 turn(s).
Hobgoblin’s Green Pumpkin Bombs deal 354 team damage and destroy surrounding non-friendly tiles (Destroyed tiles do not deal damage or generate AP).
Hobgoblin’s Black Pumpkin Bombs create 2 strength 171 Black Strike tiles.

The Trapster is prepared for any situation! Pete's evolution means variable traps at the ready.

Ability: Behind the Schemes
Choose to Bide or Exploit. If Bide is chosen, add 1 turn to the timer of every friendly Countdown or Repeater tile and Fortify up to 2 friendly Countdown or Repeater tiles. If Exploit is chosen, reduce their timers by 1 and deal 177 plus 89 team damage for each tile reduced.

Sticky or Soluble? Pete has the solution!

The Devs didn't have glue on this one and have come unstuck! They are now taking a pasting as their plans go to pot!

DAZ0273

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@Daredevil217 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@Daredevil217 said:
Do you really think 1500+ damage to all teammate match damage with a built in leap-frog charge PER teammmate is an accident when most characters cap out way lower? Like seriously? And many of these match damage monsters are THE meta characters in the game.

Captain Britain +780% max in strong colors with 18 stored AP.
Karnak- +560% after 4 turns
Ikaris +380% when airborne to enemy in back
IHulk +378% (after many deaths)
MBaku +300% (and 3% for each % health gone)
Ghost +300%
Juggernaut/Doop +225%
Chasm +220% max (I think? Not sure how he works)
Rhino +200% in strong colors
Thanos +175% (when CD out)
3* Namor +125% bonus damage with bottom 5 match
Colossus +125%
Adam Warlock +113%
Dark Beast +57% per black AP
America Chavez/Doop +30% per AP in that color
Headpool +30% bonus damage per match

Teammate boosts:
Iron May 150%
Agatha +30% per teammate match
The Hunter +90% for 3 AP (tied to a CD)
Cyclops +75% for 7 AP

Then there’s Sidewinder… lol.

There’s no way you look at that match damage meta, the leapfrog meta, say “let’s combine these things but pump them up astronomically, and be “surprised” when you “accidentally” make a meta character. I can’t believe some of the things I read.

Actually I think they copied a number wrong on Sidewinder's design. But yes, I don't believe they make good or bad characters on purpose. There is absolutely no evidence that they do that -- they have every incentive to make every character very strong, and in fact they claim that all new characters and rebalances are meant to be equally strong.

They don't understand their own game, or at least they're clueless about high level play. There's a mountain of evidence of this over the years.

I see what you’re saying. If it’s a clerical error and they made a mistake by hitting a wrong button or inputting the wrong value, sure. Then they’ll fix it (spoiler- they won’t fix it).

But if you are saying they meant to give him 1500% match damage and built-in frog powers and didn’t know he’d be instant meta because they “don’t under their own game”… that I strongly disagree with.

These are two different kinds of “mistakes”. A clerical error is different than not understanding their own game.

No, Sidewinder is so ridiculously far ahead of the curve that I just cannot believe they did that on purpose.

But in general I don't think they make "meta" characters on purpose. Do we really think they did Chasm on purpose? Didn't they actually acknowledge he was a mistake in the nerf post?

I thought they acknowledged that they did Chasm on purpose? This is what they said, it is sort of hard to work out as it seems they are saying they knew he was special but then were still surprised that he was special:

When we designed Chasm, we wanted to do something new and interesting - and we did! Chasm’s a cool character, and we still love how his kit came together; unfortunately, Chasm performed too well, especially paired with other characters that could repeatedly revive. Our goal with this rebalance is to tone down the parts of his kit that aren’t fun to play against (including his damage) while ensuring he’s still an interesting character to play with - and against!

That's about how I remember it. I read this as referring to his all-passive/AP denial stuff, which was certainly new and interesting.

It's possible that the problem is the infamous "power budget" -- if it overestimates some things and underestimates others (or doesn't count them at all!), that could cause this problem. I doubt they have a way of putting a value on things like "resurrects infinitely for free" or "explodes the entire board every turn."

I 100% agree that the "power budget" is definitely the wild card at play and that some things that look like value such as permanent damage and so are costed high and others costed low such as passive that boost are skewed and bonkers when looked at in the vacuum of just creating that character. In my opinion literally any power that affects what other team mates can do should have a sky high budget ranking.

dianetics

So...
We get a game breaking 4...and two weeks later a worse version of GG.
You all's "power budget" is borked.
I was excited for Hobgoblin, but he doesn't even have a flying power.
I think the devs have lost the plot.

entrailbucket

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@Daredevil217 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@Daredevil217 said:
Do you really think 1500+ damage to all teammate match damage with a built in leap-frog charge PER teammmate is an accident when most characters cap out way lower? Like seriously? And many of these match damage monsters are THE meta characters in the game.

Captain Britain +780% max in strong colors with 18 stored AP.
Karnak- +560% after 4 turns
Ikaris +380% when airborne to enemy in back
IHulk +378% (after many deaths)
MBaku +300% (and 3% for each % health gone)
Ghost +300%
Juggernaut/Doop +225%
Chasm +220% max (I think? Not sure how he works)
Rhino +200% in strong colors
Thanos +175% (when CD out)
3* Namor +125% bonus damage with bottom 5 match
Colossus +125%
Adam Warlock +113%
Dark Beast +57% per black AP
America Chavez/Doop +30% per AP in that color
Headpool +30% bonus damage per match

Teammate boosts:
Iron May 150%
Agatha +30% per teammate match
The Hunter +90% for 3 AP (tied to a CD)
Cyclops +75% for 7 AP

Then there’s Sidewinder… lol.

There’s no way you look at that match damage meta, the leapfrog meta, say “let’s combine these things but pump them up astronomically, and be “surprised” when you “accidentally” make a meta character. I can’t believe some of the things I read.

Actually I think they copied a number wrong on Sidewinder's design. But yes, I don't believe they make good or bad characters on purpose. There is absolutely no evidence that they do that -- they have every incentive to make every character very strong, and in fact they claim that all new characters and rebalances are meant to be equally strong.

They don't understand their own game, or at least they're clueless about high level play. There's a mountain of evidence of this over the years.

I see what you’re saying. If it’s a clerical error and they made a mistake by hitting a wrong button or inputting the wrong value, sure. Then they’ll fix it (spoiler- they won’t fix it).

But if you are saying they meant to give him 1500% match damage and built-in frog powers and didn’t know he’d be instant meta because they “don’t under their own game”… that I strongly disagree with.

These are two different kinds of “mistakes”. A clerical error is different than not understanding their own game.

No, Sidewinder is so ridiculously far ahead of the curve that I just cannot believe they did that on purpose.

But in general I don't think they make "meta" characters on purpose. Do we really think they did Chasm on purpose? Didn't they actually acknowledge he was a mistake in the nerf post?

I thought they acknowledged that they did Chasm on purpose? This is what they said, it is sort of hard to work out as it seems they are saying they knew he was special but then were still surprised that he was special:

When we designed Chasm, we wanted to do something new and interesting - and we did! Chasm’s a cool character, and we still love how his kit came together; unfortunately, Chasm performed too well, especially paired with other characters that could repeatedly revive. Our goal with this rebalance is to tone down the parts of his kit that aren’t fun to play against (including his damage) while ensuring he’s still an interesting character to play with - and against!

That's about how I remember it. I read this as referring to his all-passive/AP denial stuff, which was certainly new and interesting.

It's possible that the problem is the infamous "power budget" -- if it overestimates some things and underestimates others (or doesn't count them at all!), that could cause this problem. I doubt they have a way of putting a value on things like "resurrects infinitely for free" or "explodes the entire board every turn."

I 100% agree that the "power budget" is definitely the wild card at play and that some things that look like value such as permanent damage and so are costed high and others costed low such as passive that boost are skewed and bonkers when looked at in the vacuum of just creating that character. In my opinion literally any power that affects what other team mates can do should have a sky high budget ranking.

Assuming the budgeting happens in a vacuum per character, that's also a problem. Many of the problematic powers are just fine on their own, but can cause issues when paired with other powers that do similar (or highly synergistic) things -- like stacking several match damage boosts.

KGB

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@Daredevil217 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@Daredevil217 said:
Do you really think 1500+ damage to all teammate match damage with a built in leap-frog charge PER teammmate is an accident when most characters cap out way lower? Like seriously? And many of these match damage monsters are THE meta characters in the game.

Captain Britain +780% max in strong colors with 18 stored AP.
Karnak- +560% after 4 turns
Ikaris +380% when airborne to enemy in back
IHulk +378% (after many deaths)
MBaku +300% (and 3% for each % health gone)
Ghost +300%
Juggernaut/Doop +225%
Chasm +220% max (I think? Not sure how he works)
Rhino +200% in strong colors
Thanos +175% (when CD out)
3* Namor +125% bonus damage with bottom 5 match
Colossus +125%
Adam Warlock +113%
Dark Beast +57% per black AP
America Chavez/Doop +30% per AP in that color
Headpool +30% bonus damage per match

Teammate boosts:
Iron May 150%
Agatha +30% per teammate match
The Hunter +90% for 3 AP (tied to a CD)
Cyclops +75% for 7 AP

Then there’s Sidewinder… lol.

There’s no way you look at that match damage meta, the leapfrog meta, say “let’s combine these things but pump them up astronomically, and be “surprised” when you “accidentally” make a meta character. I can’t believe some of the things I read.

Actually I think they copied a number wrong on Sidewinder's design. But yes, I don't believe they make good or bad characters on purpose. There is absolutely no evidence that they do that -- they have every incentive to make every character very strong, and in fact they claim that all new characters and rebalances are meant to be equally strong.

They don't understand their own game, or at least they're clueless about high level play. There's a mountain of evidence of this over the years.

I see what you’re saying. If it’s a clerical error and they made a mistake by hitting a wrong button or inputting the wrong value, sure. Then they’ll fix it (spoiler- they won’t fix it).

But if you are saying they meant to give him 1500% match damage and built-in frog powers and didn’t know he’d be instant meta because they “don’t under their own game”… that I strongly disagree with.

These are two different kinds of “mistakes”. A clerical error is different than not understanding their own game.

No, Sidewinder is so ridiculously far ahead of the curve that I just cannot believe they did that on purpose.

But in general I don't think they make "meta" characters on purpose. Do we really think they did Chasm on purpose? Didn't they actually acknowledge he was a mistake in the nerf post?

I thought they acknowledged that they did Chasm on purpose? This is what they said, it is sort of hard to work out as it seems they are saying they knew he was special but then were still surprised that he was special:

When we designed Chasm, we wanted to do something new and interesting - and we did! Chasm’s a cool character, and we still love how his kit came together; unfortunately, Chasm performed too well, especially paired with other characters that could repeatedly revive. Our goal with this rebalance is to tone down the parts of his kit that aren’t fun to play against (including his damage) while ensuring he’s still an interesting character to play with - and against!

That's about how I remember it. I read this as referring to his all-passive/AP denial stuff, which was certainly new and interesting.

It's possible that the problem is the infamous "power budget" -- if it overestimates some things and underestimates others (or doesn't count them at all!), that could cause this problem. I doubt they have a way of putting a value on things like "resurrects infinitely for free" or "explodes the entire board every turn."

I 100% agree that the "power budget" is definitely the wild card at play and that some things that look like value such as permanent damage and so are costed high and others costed low such as passive that boost are skewed and bonkers when looked at in the vacuum of just creating that character. In my opinion literally any power that affects what other team mates can do should have a sky high budget ranking.

-- like stacking several match damage boosts.

That's an easily resolved coding problem. Just don't let boosts stack and only take the strongest. We already see this correctly working in some cases where they don't stack. They could make a general rule (no stack, additive stacking only etc), announce it and then fix it in code.

KGB

entrailbucket

@KGB said:

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@Daredevil217 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@Daredevil217 said:
Do you really think 1500+ damage to all teammate match damage with a built in leap-frog charge PER teammmate is an accident when most characters cap out way lower? Like seriously? And many of these match damage monsters are THE meta characters in the game.

Captain Britain +780% max in strong colors with 18 stored AP.
Karnak- +560% after 4 turns
Ikaris +380% when airborne to enemy in back
IHulk +378% (after many deaths)
MBaku +300% (and 3% for each % health gone)
Ghost +300%
Juggernaut/Doop +225%
Chasm +220% max (I think? Not sure how he works)
Rhino +200% in strong colors
Thanos +175% (when CD out)
3* Namor +125% bonus damage with bottom 5 match
Colossus +125%
Adam Warlock +113%
Dark Beast +57% per black AP
America Chavez/Doop +30% per AP in that color
Headpool +30% bonus damage per match

Teammate boosts:
Iron May 150%
Agatha +30% per teammate match
The Hunter +90% for 3 AP (tied to a CD)
Cyclops +75% for 7 AP

Then there’s Sidewinder… lol.

There’s no way you look at that match damage meta, the leapfrog meta, say “let’s combine these things but pump them up astronomically, and be “surprised” when you “accidentally” make a meta character. I can’t believe some of the things I read.

Actually I think they copied a number wrong on Sidewinder's design. But yes, I don't believe they make good or bad characters on purpose. There is absolutely no evidence that they do that -- they have every incentive to make every character very strong, and in fact they claim that all new characters and rebalances are meant to be equally strong.

They don't understand their own game, or at least they're clueless about high level play. There's a mountain of evidence of this over the years.

I see what you’re saying. If it’s a clerical error and they made a mistake by hitting a wrong button or inputting the wrong value, sure. Then they’ll fix it (spoiler- they won’t fix it).

But if you are saying they meant to give him 1500% match damage and built-in frog powers and didn’t know he’d be instant meta because they “don’t under their own game”… that I strongly disagree with.

These are two different kinds of “mistakes”. A clerical error is different than not understanding their own game.

No, Sidewinder is so ridiculously far ahead of the curve that I just cannot believe they did that on purpose.

But in general I don't think they make "meta" characters on purpose. Do we really think they did Chasm on purpose? Didn't they actually acknowledge he was a mistake in the nerf post?

I thought they acknowledged that they did Chasm on purpose? This is what they said, it is sort of hard to work out as it seems they are saying they knew he was special but then were still surprised that he was special:

When we designed Chasm, we wanted to do something new and interesting - and we did! Chasm’s a cool character, and we still love how his kit came together; unfortunately, Chasm performed too well, especially paired with other characters that could repeatedly revive. Our goal with this rebalance is to tone down the parts of his kit that aren’t fun to play against (including his damage) while ensuring he’s still an interesting character to play with - and against!

That's about how I remember it. I read this as referring to his all-passive/AP denial stuff, which was certainly new and interesting.

It's possible that the problem is the infamous "power budget" -- if it overestimates some things and underestimates others (or doesn't count them at all!), that could cause this problem. I doubt they have a way of putting a value on things like "resurrects infinitely for free" or "explodes the entire board every turn."

I 100% agree that the "power budget" is definitely the wild card at play and that some things that look like value such as permanent damage and so are costed high and others costed low such as passive that boost are skewed and bonkers when looked at in the vacuum of just creating that character. In my opinion literally any power that affects what other team mates can do should have a sky high budget ranking.

-- like stacking several match damage boosts.

That's an easily resolved coding problem. Just don't let boosts stack and only take the strongest. We already see this correctly working in some cases where they don't stack. They could make a general rule (no stack, additive stacking only etc), announce it and then fix it in code.

KGB

I don't think they know or care (which is completely different from saying they are doing this on purpose to goose sales/redefine the metagame/allow some group to compete/whatever other preferred conspiracy theory someone might have).

Blackstone

On his own, he tries to do too much and looks terrible.

There are several possible synergies with other characters who are at least decent.

Could be something there if anyone bothers testing... Not saying there is, just the possibility.

But why bother, beyond just having him for the sake of completion.

LavaManLee

I imagine he will be like Gorgon. I'll champ him and then take whatever rewards I get for him but no need to raise him to an insane level.

toecutter3095

Are we really getting shards as progression rewards for 2 consecutive PVE events? It had 2 events for Sam Wilson as well, although it never happened. In fact the 2nd PVE listed in Sam's release post didn't even run, we had OSS not HAT. I'm inclined to think the template has been screwed up but it just keeps getting perpetuated throughout releases.

Pottsie1980

Looks like one to baby champ and move onto the next

concillado

Why oh why do the devs keep showing the feeder-diagram on new characters if they do not want to spoil this info anyway.... it is not like they update this page after it has been revealed anyway.... it is frustrating to go back to a page for documentation, if it is not documentation anyways.