New Character - Hobgoblin (Roderick Kingsley) 5*

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Comments

  • fractalvisions
    fractalvisions Posts: 326 Mover and Shaker

    @BriMan2222 said:

    @GrimSkald said:

    @KGB said:
    @S0kun - Under the black power 'New Gob, New Tricks', the 6 different descriptions for the 6 colors all say AP Cost 10. I believe that's a cut-n-paste mistake (from original Green Goblin) since the AP cost was 8 to fire the power (ie you don't pay 10 more AP) . So that line should be removed for clarity.

    Overall seems pretty meh.

    His best power looks to be the 100% damage avoidance on his purple and even that will be tricky to time esp when facing MThor. But at least he should avoid a turn 0 death (unless facing Chasm) since he places some at start of battle.

    The purple pumpkin bomb only stealing 2 AP is awful. Should at least steal 3-4 at 5 covers. No one ever going to pick Purple.

    KGB

    I agree with the assessment - he's basically the Green Goblin with a repeater/damage reduction power instead of a fortification power, updated numbers, and no direct damage. Nobody plays Normy, so yeah. Pity Sam (a pretty darn good character) is sandwiched between two mediocre ones...

    As far as Feeders go, Kraven, Prowler, and Mysterio don't feed anyone. They're all Sinister Six. I really doubt we're getting a 5★ Kraven to coincide with the movie (we don't get a lot of cross-promotion with Sony and their movies haven't been doing well at all) so any is as likely as any other, I think...

    I also doubt were getting a Kraven movie tie in since they would have released it at the time the movie hit theaters and not months after it's been gone. Plus we haven't had a tie in for any of the venom movies, morbius, or madame web. Marvel doesn't care about the Sony movies.

    Morbius entered the game in March 2021, which would have coincided with the release of the film at one point. However, the film release was delayed on multiple occasions due to COVID. So I suspect it was intended as a tie-in.

  • Codex
    Codex Posts: 367 Mover and Shaker

    I have a theory on this, on characters that they think won't sell well, will get good to very good power sets. While those that they think would sell well, get average to below average power sets. Which leads me to believe when they finally release a playable Galactus he will just as terrible as Hobgoblin if not slightly better.

  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,977 Chairperson of the Boards

    @entrailbucket said:

    @WhiteBomber said:
    I have never been more curious about the balance process than I have with this game. No other game (that I can recall) has seen such wild fluctuations in balance. To go from Sam and Sidewinder to this, is so perplexing (and I think people really wanted this one?).

    Typically you want your new characters to stand out and be, at least decent, but this game has em them all over the place. I feel much confusion and discontent with the comment they gave us last year, about every new character is supposed to be upwards of top 10 in value.

    There are surely very specific teams this guy can add at least some value to, but he is another character that (seemingly) just a few minor tweaks could have made him much better, without being too good. I will still look for fun teams for him, but I now fully believe this team has zero quality control regarding characters.

    The good characters are good by accident, and the bad characters are bad by accident. Once you realize this, everything makes a lot more sense. The conspiracy theories about them creating "meta" guys on purpose at various intervals are just cargo cult-style attempts to impose some order on what's fundamentally a nonsense process.

    The biggest issue is just that they never change anybody. If they were doing regular balance passes on the most and least used characters it wouldn't be nearly as obvious that they've got no idea what they're doing.

    No, incorrect.

    There is no way Omega Red was meta "by accident". maybe some are "oops" but most you have some sense immediately of how they'll play and the devs know it too.

    Omega Red was almost exactly the character I imagined years before he came out when I was spitballing a super-meta character (sure, he's got some vulnerability, but he has passive unconditional AOE you can only stop under certain conditions, heals, has a protects power to keep him alive longer, a multi hit for good measure). How would you make that kit and not know it's going to be meta? (also he was a long-requested character and I believe they wanted to make sure he was good at release)

    Like Shang Chi isn't "oops, we made a character who self accelerates while using board control to set up more matches, and get more AP, and heals when using one of his board control powers, and every match he makes he does more damage so just give him AP and he can win out the match most times once he gets going".

    They know.

    Sure we get the occasional oopsie but they are trying so hard right now now to make super-accelerating passive characters that we will want in the lower tiers. The 5s? I mean there's no point in pushing the meta envelope there.

    Maybe they didn't fully envision Golden Oldie would become a Turn 0 win with Emma and Riri (or anyone carrying Arc Reactor) but they also paired her with iron may who was absolutely intended to become meta and someone you used almost every PVE match if you don't have a 550 Golden Oldie and want to win as fast as possible.

    I could go on but one thing that stops others from being better is trying to honor the character, but I also think they space metas out a bit (or did? kinda rapid fire lately) since it helps them stand out more.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,312 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Codex said:
    I have a theory on this, on characters that they think won't sell well, will get good to very good power sets. While those that they think would sell well, get average to below average power sets. Which leads me to believe when they finally release a playable Galactus he will just as terrible as Hobgoblin if not slightly better.

    Gambit was the most requested for years and the strongest character by far at the time he was released. Omega Red was the next most requested and he's really strong too.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,312 Chairperson of the Boards

    @bluewolf if you need that to be true I can't convince you otherwise, and they'll obviously never give us a straight answer.

    I'd bet a large amount of money that Iron May, Sidewinder, 3* Namor etc are the way they are because they didn't bother testing with high level 5* or the damage boosters. The same thing happened with Bishop and 4* Cap years ago.

  • LavaManLee
    LavaManLee Posts: 1,531 Chairperson of the Boards

    @entrailbucket said:
    @bluewolf if you need that to be true I can't convince you otherwise, and they'll obviously never give us a straight answer.

    I'd bet a large amount of money that Iron May, Sidewinder, 3* Namor etc are the way they are because they didn't bother testing with high level 5* or the damage boosters. The same thing happened with Bishop and 4* Cap years ago.

    Totally agree. I've been mentioning for years that the devs (going back to the original devs) don't play the game the way we do and so don't actually test them in the wild. They need actually players to beta new characters because the players are the ones to find the loopholes and maximize the teams.

    Anyone playing higher level PVP right now? It's no accident that once you get above a certain point level it is a sea of Sidewinder/Required/Chasm. With some combo of Leapfrog/Eros/ThanosCopter/Totem supports.

    Players will find the advantage and go all in. The devs don't think that way when doing their own testing.

  • S0kun
    S0kun ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 792 Critical Contributor

    @Zarqa said:

    @S0kun said:

    @bluewolf said:
    The Pumpkin Bomb power says it costs 8 but each color says it costs 10 AP. Can you please clarify?

    Confirmed that it was an error and release version will be 10AP for the bombs. I've fixed it across our sites.

    Ehm, it seems you fixed it to be 8 for the bombs though? Which is it, 8 or 10 AP?

    It's 8AP across all bombs in his New Gob, New Tricks black ability. Sorry for the confusion!

  • ThisisClemFandango
    ThisisClemFandango Posts: 927 Critical Contributor

    Thank god
    This makes him so much better

  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,977 Chairperson of the Boards

    @LavaManLee said:

    @entrailbucket said:
    @bluewolf if you need that to be true I can't convince you otherwise, and they'll obviously never give us a straight answer.

    I'd bet a large amount of money that Iron May, Sidewinder, 3* Namor etc are the way they are because they didn't bother testing with high level 5* or the damage boosters. The same thing happened with Bishop and 4* Cap years ago.

    Totally agree. I've been mentioning for years that the devs (going back to the original devs) don't play the game the way we do and so don't actually test them in the wild. They need actually players to beta new characters because the players are the ones to find the loopholes and maximize the teams.

    Anyone playing higher level PVP right now? It's no accident that once you get above a certain point level it is a sea of Sidewinder/Required/Chasm. With some combo of Leapfrog/Eros/ThanosCopter/Totem supports.

    Players will find the advantage and go all in. The devs don't think that way when doing their own testing.

    The game is completely different than it was when Bishop and Worthy released in terms of passives etc. They have moved completely towards passives and speed rounds especially after ascension.

    Look, they released Golden Oldie in April 2024 and since then, anyone who wants to compete for T10 or better in PVE needs a 550 Golden Oldie.

    Which you either got immediately/when she was in Latests or you are on a very very long journey to favorite her if you missed her in Latests and/or didn't pull much etc.

    If you are the devs you have 2 choices to offer the players that missed her (well, 3):

    1. Sorry dude, you're locked out
    2. Release a similar meta 5 that can clear nodes on turn 0 with some combo of another character who can give them a ton of AP
    3. release damage accelerants that are available to lower tier players (that will also appeal to all players) so they can begin to get closer to competing with the guys who have an emma and 550 Golden Oldie without needing 550 GO.

    If you nerf Sidewinder and leave supports in Sim you still end up with M'baku and 3 Namor steamrolling everything they can (another team you need to have played for years to have as you need an ascended M'baku).

    We will see if they nerf Sidewinder. I am doubtful they'll nerf anyone as that will negate spending and the game doesn't want to stop any more spending than they already did with the buy clubs shutting down thanks to the swap policy change.

  • Codex
    Codex Posts: 367 Mover and Shaker
    edited 3 March 2025, 23:41

    Here are my suggested fix. The purple passive must be the same as OR, I.e can't be negated by opening stun. Also the repeater starts the battle at 1-turn, resolving and going back to 3. It fires either blue, black or purple powers ( his strongest colors) or since they are decoys it fires his weakest color bombs.

    Remove the burst healing and spend the power budget elsewhere.

    The rest can stay as is.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,312 Chairperson of the Boards

    @bluewolf none of that makes any sense.

    If they purposely created Golden Oldie as a "chase" character, meant to be the only way anyone could compete in PvE, why haven't they been selling her covers like crazy since then? Do they not want money? Has she even been in a vault?

    The whole thing you describe only works if they're specifically catering to non spenders, and what possible reason could they have for that?

  • revskip
    revskip Posts: 1,050 Chairperson of the Boards

    @bluewolf said:

    @LavaManLee said:

    @entrailbucket said:
    @bluewolf if you need that to be true I can't convince you otherwise, and they'll obviously never give us a straight answer.

    I'd bet a large amount of money that Iron May, Sidewinder, 3* Namor etc are the way they are because they didn't bother testing with high level 5* or the damage boosters. The same thing happened with Bishop and 4* Cap years ago.

    Totally agree. I've been mentioning for years that the devs (going back to the original devs) don't play the game the way we do and so don't actually test them in the wild. They need actually players to beta new characters because the players are the ones to find the loopholes and maximize the teams.

    Anyone playing higher level PVP right now? It's no accident that once you get above a certain point level it is a sea of Sidewinder/Required/Chasm. With some combo of Leapfrog/Eros/ThanosCopter/Totem supports.

    Players will find the advantage and go all in. The devs don't think that way when doing their own testing.

    The game is completely different than it was when Bishop and Worthy released in terms of passives etc. They have moved completely towards passives and speed rounds especially after ascension.

    Look, they released Golden Oldie in April 2024 and since then, anyone who wants to compete for T10 or better in PVE needs a 550 Golden Oldie.

    Which you either got immediately/when she was in Latests or you are on a very very long journey to favorite her if you missed her in Latests and/or didn't pull much etc.

    If you are the devs you have 2 choices to offer the players that missed her (well, 3):

    1. Sorry dude, you're locked out
    2. Release a similar meta 5 that can clear nodes on turn 0 with some combo of another character who can give them a ton of AP
    3. release damage accelerants that are available to lower tier players (that will also appeal to all players) so they can begin to get closer to competing with the guys who have an emma and 550 Golden Oldie without needing 550 GO.

    If you nerf Sidewinder and leave supports in Sim you still end up with M'baku and 3 Namor steamrolling everything they can (another team you need to have played for years to have as you need an ascended M'baku).

    We will see if they nerf Sidewinder. I am doubtful they'll nerf anyone as that will negate spending and the game doesn't want to stop any more spending than they already did with the buy clubs shutting down thanks to the swap policy change.

    There isn't money coming in from Sidewinder. He only requires that you champ him. Everything else is just a little more health.

    I'm running him at 271 and curb stomping everything in my way trivially.

    Mbaku and Namor are a money / time investment since they need ascending and using the new swap system to push them up more quickly. That is an HP sink which in turn means money spent. Sidewinder requires none of that to be dominant. Just boost +2 TU, make one team up match and you are already maxing out his 1525%. Or don't even bother doing the boost and run him with RTF and make one match and you are at the 1525%.

  • amigopdude22
    amigopdude22 Posts: 14 Just Dropped In

    Not sure why anyone is surprised the vote winning character is bad. It's basically the "here, dammit. Leave us alone" tactic with them hoping that if they make them bad they eventually won't have to do it anymore.

    Look at Black Knight for example. He's arguably worse than most 1-2 star characters save for the 4* heath and match damage.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,312 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Daredevil217 said:
    Do you really think 1500+ damage to all teammate match damage with a built in leap-frog charge PER teammmate is an accident when most characters cap out way lower? Like seriously? And many of these match damage monsters are THE meta characters in the game.

    Captain Britain +780% max in strong colors with 18 stored AP.
    Karnak- +560% after 4 turns
    Ikaris +380% when airborne to enemy in back
    IHulk +378% (after many deaths)
    MBaku +300% (and 3% for each % health gone)
    Ghost +300%
    Juggernaut/Doop +225%
    Chasm +220% max (I think? Not sure how he works)
    Rhino +200% in strong colors
    Thanos +175% (when CD out)
    3* Namor +125% bonus damage with bottom 5 match
    Colossus +125%
    Adam Warlock +113%
    Dark Beast +57% per black AP
    America Chavez/Doop +30% per AP in that color
    Headpool +30% bonus damage per match

    Teammate boosts:
    Iron May 150%
    Agatha +30% per teammate match
    The Hunter +90% for 3 AP (tied to a CD)
    Cyclops +75% for 7 AP

    Then there’s Sidewinder… lol.

    There’s no way you look at that match damage meta, the leapfrog meta, say “let’s combine these things but pump them up astronomically, and be “surprised” when you “accidentally” make a meta character. I can’t believe some of the things I read.

    Actually I think they copied a number wrong on Sidewinder's design. But yes, I don't believe they make good or bad characters on purpose. There is absolutely no evidence that they do that -- they have every incentive to make every character very strong, and in fact they claim that all new characters and rebalances are meant to be equally strong.

    They don't understand their own game, or at least they're clueless about high level play. There's a mountain of evidence of this over the years.

  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 4,048 Chairperson of the Boards

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Daredevil217 said:
    Do you really think 1500+ damage to all teammate match damage with a built in leap-frog charge PER teammmate is an accident when most characters cap out way lower? Like seriously? And many of these match damage monsters are THE meta characters in the game.

    Captain Britain +780% max in strong colors with 18 stored AP.
    Karnak- +560% after 4 turns
    Ikaris +380% when airborne to enemy in back
    IHulk +378% (after many deaths)
    MBaku +300% (and 3% for each % health gone)
    Ghost +300%
    Juggernaut/Doop +225%
    Chasm +220% max (I think? Not sure how he works)
    Rhino +200% in strong colors
    Thanos +175% (when CD out)
    3* Namor +125% bonus damage with bottom 5 match
    Colossus +125%
    Adam Warlock +113%
    Dark Beast +57% per black AP
    America Chavez/Doop +30% per AP in that color
    Headpool +30% bonus damage per match

    Teammate boosts:
    Iron May 150%
    Agatha +30% per teammate match
    The Hunter +90% for 3 AP (tied to a CD)
    Cyclops +75% for 7 AP

    Then there’s Sidewinder… lol.

    There’s no way you look at that match damage meta, the leapfrog meta, say “let’s combine these things but pump them up astronomically, and be “surprised” when you “accidentally” make a meta character. I can’t believe some of the things I read.

    Actually I think they copied a number wrong on Sidewinder's design. But yes, I don't believe they make good or bad characters on purpose. There is absolutely no evidence that they do that -- they have every incentive to make every character very strong, and in fact they claim that all new characters and rebalances are meant to be equally strong.

    They don't understand their own game, or at least they're clueless about high level play. There's a mountain of evidence of this over the years.

    I see what you’re saying. If it’s a clerical error and they made a mistake by hitting a wrong button or inputting the wrong value, sure. Then they’ll fix it (spoiler- they won’t fix it).

    But if you are saying they meant to give him 1500% match damage and built-in frog powers and didn’t know he’d be instant meta because they “don’t under their own game”… that I strongly disagree with.

    These are two different kinds of “mistakes”. A clerical error is different than not understanding their own game.

  • BlackBoltRocks
    BlackBoltRocks Posts: 1,213 Chairperson of the Boards

    @entrailbucket said:

    If they purposely created Golden Oldie as a "chase" character, meant to be the only way anyone could compete in PvE, why haven't they been selling her covers like crazy since then? Do they not want money? Has she even been in a vault?

    And if Golden May were really a "chase" character, they'd have put her in Hobgoblin's vault. Or just make her the new Dr Strange where she's in every other vault.

    Likewise, what @revskip mentioned about 3a5 Namor and MBaku. 5* players need resources to maximise those two. No such requirements for Sidewinder.

    As for Hobby...I've been looking forward to having him in the game, and he's basically Green Goblin if Norman got a 5* Doctopus-style buff. If I have a 550 Kang, why would I ever use Hobby over Jonathan Majors? Maybe they're planning a Born Again tie-in, like a 2* Daredevil or Punisher who has abilities similar to 3a5 Namor, MBaku, Sidewinder etc. Now that would be a "chase" character.

  • Rejoinder
    Rejoinder Posts: 19 Just Dropped In

    I'd give him a shot. I'm not a fan of the dull meta teams, so I enjoy enabler characters like this, who tend to have a lot of opportunities for strange combos.

    My guess for feeder? Mysterio.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,312 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Daredevil217 said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Daredevil217 said:
    Do you really think 1500+ damage to all teammate match damage with a built in leap-frog charge PER teammmate is an accident when most characters cap out way lower? Like seriously? And many of these match damage monsters are THE meta characters in the game.

    Captain Britain +780% max in strong colors with 18 stored AP.
    Karnak- +560% after 4 turns
    Ikaris +380% when airborne to enemy in back
    IHulk +378% (after many deaths)
    MBaku +300% (and 3% for each % health gone)
    Ghost +300%
    Juggernaut/Doop +225%
    Chasm +220% max (I think? Not sure how he works)
    Rhino +200% in strong colors
    Thanos +175% (when CD out)
    3* Namor +125% bonus damage with bottom 5 match
    Colossus +125%
    Adam Warlock +113%
    Dark Beast +57% per black AP
    America Chavez/Doop +30% per AP in that color
    Headpool +30% bonus damage per match

    Teammate boosts:
    Iron May 150%
    Agatha +30% per teammate match
    The Hunter +90% for 3 AP (tied to a CD)
    Cyclops +75% for 7 AP

    Then there’s Sidewinder… lol.

    There’s no way you look at that match damage meta, the leapfrog meta, say “let’s combine these things but pump them up astronomically, and be “surprised” when you “accidentally” make a meta character. I can’t believe some of the things I read.

    Actually I think they copied a number wrong on Sidewinder's design. But yes, I don't believe they make good or bad characters on purpose. There is absolutely no evidence that they do that -- they have every incentive to make every character very strong, and in fact they claim that all new characters and rebalances are meant to be equally strong.

    They don't understand their own game, or at least they're clueless about high level play. There's a mountain of evidence of this over the years.

    I see what you’re saying. If it’s a clerical error and they made a mistake by hitting a wrong button or inputting the wrong value, sure. Then they’ll fix it (spoiler- they won’t fix it).

    But if you are saying they meant to give him 1500% match damage and built-in frog powers and didn’t know he’d be instant meta because they “don’t under their own game”… that I strongly disagree with.

    These are two different kinds of “mistakes”. A clerical error is different than not understanding their own game.

    No, Sidewinder is so ridiculously far ahead of the curve that I just cannot believe they did that on purpose.

    But in general I don't think they make "meta" characters on purpose. Do we really think they did Chasm on purpose? Didn't they actually acknowledge he was a mistake in the nerf post?

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