No point trasitioning from 3*->4*. Going straight from 3*->5*

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  • DAZ0273DAZ0273 Posts: 4,306 Chairperson of the Boards
    Ah...here we go, Scl8 muscles on clear 4 hit for 14k Tommy gun damage. 😥. So I guess scl7 5e Muscles hit for at least about 9k or so? Ouch.
  • DAZ0273DAZ0273 Posts: 4,306 Chairperson of the Boards
    Some final data for you - I am playing Scl8 4E clear and Muscles Tommy gun only hits for 2.3k damage. Obviously that would be scaled down for Scl7 but already the difference between 4e and 5e is starting to become pretty clear...now that clear 2 so I suspect it ramps, I will report.
  • DAZ0273DAZ0273 Posts: 4,306 Chairperson of the Boards
    Final final!!!!! So Muscle didn't hit again but Konran landed an 8k hit. This is on the 4e. Let us assume that scl7 half's that (probably not though) . Hopefully that tells you what Scl7 and 8 are sort of like. Good luck.
  • OJSPOJSP Posts: 839 Critical Contributor
    Jacklag said:
    I haven't yet played at SCL7 without the essential 4* (I usually play SCL5 or 6, only play SCL7 when the 4* cover is necessary to build a char I'm towards working).
    Well, the point values are the same for all nodes except the 5E nodes, which you wouldn't have in SCL 5 or 6. So, if you've been getting full progression while playing in SCL 5 or 6 with your play schedule, you should achieve it while playing in SCL 7 or higher. The points required to get full progression is the same for all SCLs. The difference is the length of time required to clear the nodes, because of the health pool of the enemies and the damage we'd be taking from them.

    Just check that spreadsheet I mention above and calculate it before the event. That way, you can plan your clears accordingly.
  • JacklagJacklag Posts: 110 Tile Toppler
    DAZ0273 said:
    I assume their Tommy gun will hit for some serious damage maybe a fair few thousand per hit...can your low cover 5* live through that 4 times without dying?
    I make a point never to get hit by a Tommy gun, or an Eye Beam from the Mindless Ones either. I play SCL7 with IM40 and 3* Strange. If one of these two tiles is about to reach 0 and I don't have a Stun or match ready, or any attack that can kill the thug on that turn, I would rather Retreat and start over. Less damage this way. 

    I sometimes get hit with a Spy's Silent Strike. Those are much quicker and more difficult to avoid. But they thankfully deal less damage.

    I guess I'll have to wait for an event where one of my 5*s is feature to see what the 5E node is like.
  • DAZ0273DAZ0273 Posts: 4,306 Chairperson of the Boards
    Jacklag said:
    DAZ0273 said:
    I assume their Tommy gun will hit for some serious damage maybe a fair few thousand per hit...can your low cover 5* live through that 4 times without dying?
    I make a point never to get hit by a Tommy gun, or an Eye Beam from the Mindless Ones either. I play SCL7 with IM40 and 3* Strange. If one of these two tiles is about to reach 0 and I don't have a Stun or match ready, or any attack that can kill the thug on that turn, I would rather Retreat and start over. Less damage this way. 

    I sometimes get hit with a Spy's Silent Strike. Those are much quicker and more difficult to avoid. But they thankfully deal less damage.

    I guess I'll have to wait for an event where one of my 5*s is feature to see what the 5E node is like.
    Yeah and it depends on the boost list etc and the event but definitely try SCL7 out when you have the 5. You don't want to take on the Royal Family with an understrength team for example but sometimes the 5E has no tile movers at all.
  • ThaRoadWarriorThaRoadWarrior Posts: 4,431 Chairperson of the Boards
    SCL 7 royal family can be defeated by Vulture/G4mora without much trouble in the pre-bishop days. I'm sure that it's even less bad now that he has enhanced all of our lives.
  • DAZ0273DAZ0273 Posts: 4,306 Chairperson of the Boards
    SCL 7 royal family can be defeated by Vulture/G4mora without much trouble in the pre-bishop days. I'm sure that it's even less bad now that he has enhanced all of our lives.
    But if you skip the 4* tier...
  • OJSPOJSP Posts: 839 Critical Contributor
    edited 16 January 2020, 07:25
    Jacklag, I think I found your roster and alliance. Having looked at it in more detail, I think you have a reasonable argument to suggest skipping most of the 4*s.

    The premise in the original post is to "keep just a small team if 4*s that synergize with the 5*s might be a better use of one's resources". I think depending on how you view it, if you don't have the HPs to roster all of them, you'd actually waste a lot of 4* covers while trying to get your 5*s.

    Now, you've shown that you were able to hoard 3000 CPs, did you end up rostering all the covers or did you end up selling some? I counted 138 characters in your roster. If you are still collecting most of the 4*s, then opening the LTs is a reasonable way to bulk up your roster while targetting specific characters. So, what you need to consider is how long it took you to build that hoard of CPs.

    It depends on what you want out of the game: variety and trying out different combinations, or using the same teams while playing as fast as you can, or both.

    Personally, if I were you, I'd just keep rostering characters I didn't have while slowly buiding up my iso stash and making sure I had enough HP to roster them before opening any tokens. 

    I noticed we concentrated on talking about PvE. Do you play a lot of PvP? You should be in a situation where your MMR is matching you against appropriate opponents, so keeping a balanced roster is more beneficial for you in the long run in PvP. 

    I also think one of your alliance mates is someone I used to play together with. Try mentioning my name in your chat to find out if it's still the same person. He's quite a good player before he cut down on his playing time.
  • DAZ0273DAZ0273 Posts: 4,306 Chairperson of the Boards
    I definitely think you can afford to give a lot of the 4* tier a wide berth if you have a concentrated hit squad that takes into account the following:

    The meta - so basically R4G, Juggernaut, Bishop and lets say Gamora for a GotG partner for Rocket.
    A healer - The obvious candidate is Medusa
    A special tiles creator - mainly for use with Kitty and maybe BRB, might be covered above

    The other category that is definitely worth covering is boss events. There are basically a staple of characters that will always be the essential in Boss Events so it might be worth having a 4* version of this character just so you don't have to rely on 3's - the candidates that come to mind are Iron Man, Cap, Wolverine, Hulk, Black Widow and I guess Hawkeye?
  • JacklagJacklag Posts: 110 Tile Toppler
    edited 17 January 2020, 18:22
    OJSP said:
    Jacklag, I think I found your roster and alliance. Having looked at it in more detail, I think you have a reasonable argument to suggest skipping most of the 4*s.

    The premise in the original post is to "keep just a small team if 4*s that synergize with the 5*s might be a better use of one's resources". I think depending on how you view it, if you don't have the HPs to roster all of them, you'd actually waste a lot of 4* covers while trying to get your 5*s.

    Now, you've shown that you were able to hoard 3000 CPs, did you end up rostering all the covers or did you end up selling some? I counted 138 characters in your roster. If you are still collecting most of the 4*s, then opening the LTs is a reasonable way to bulk up your roster while targetting specific characters. So, what you need to consider is how long it took you to build that hoard of CPs.

    It depends on what you want out of the game: variety and trying out different combinations, or using the same teams while playing as fast as you can, or both.

    Personally, if I were you, I'd just keep rostering characters I didn't have while slowly buiding up my iso stash and making sure I had enough HP to roster them before opening any tokens. 

    I noticed we concentrated on talking about PvE. Do you play a lot of PvP? You should be in a situation where your MMR is matching you against appropriate opponents, so keeping a balanced roster is more beneficial for you in the long run in PvP. 

    I also think one of your alliance mates is someone I used to play together with. Try mentioning my name in your chat to find out if it's still the same person. He's quite a good player before he cut down on his playing time.
    That does sound like me. In terms of PvP, MMR has been very kind to me ever since I got 3 decent lvl 255 5*s with a lot of <200 3*s to ofset them. After spending 3000 CP on 5*s, a lot of 4*s had to go to waste. The good news is that I got to pick and choose which ones I wanted on my roster and which I did not. So I threw away some like 4* Thanos, Emma Frost and Talos (lol), but got to keep many I didn't have: Shuri, Riri Williams, 4* Iron Fist. Not to mention how much it strengthened the 4*s I did have and helped finishing 4*Cap and Marvel with shards.

    And I am already back at 670 CP no more than a month after that. That's why I don't regret it one bit and probably will do something like this again soon.
  • OJSPOJSP Posts: 839 Critical Contributor
    Jacklag said:
    And I am already back at 670 CP no more than a month after that. That's why I don't regret it one bit and probably will do something like this again soon.
    That is quite fast. If you're okay with selling unwanted covers and not having the occasional essential characters, then I think you are doing fine. There's a different attitude towards wasted covers for everybody and what they consider as waste.

    When I was at your stage, I had to sell many covers because of different reasons (mainly no saved covers and no iso to champion all of them before the covers expire, but there were probably other reasons that I can't immediately think of). Meanwhile, some other players I know really dislike wasting any covers, so they only open tokens when they have the HP to roster whatever they get and the iso to champion them. There are advantages and disadvantages to both methods.

    Whatever you decide to do, just be aware that dilution is a real problem (I think you know that already from your original post). So, in case you change your mind and decide to roster the characters you previously ignored, it might take some time before you could get their cover (but, now with targeted heroes and feeders, the problem is not as bad as before).
  • krakenoonkrakenoon Posts: 278 Mover and Shaker
    edited 4 February 2020, 16:34
    Every day you don't have the required 4* for behemoth, your taco vault earnings are halved.
    Edit: earnings for that day.
  • JacklagJacklag Posts: 110 Tile Toppler
    krakenoon said:
    Every day you don't have the required 4* for behemoth, your taco vault earnings are halved.
    Edit: earnings for that day.
    Not if I have the 4* for Crash of the Titans. Still, yes, I realize I would be getting less vault tokens. Which very purpose is to collect gold and more 4*s. That is not a very compeling reason to spend gold to collect 4*s in order to get half as much gold and 1/300 shot at another 4*.
  • JacklagJacklag Posts: 110 Tile Toppler
    One month and a half past my last post, I have spent 66 Latest Legend Tokens and 1200 CP on LL Store, which scored me 5* Xavier (0/1/1), Carbage (1/3/1) and improve BRB to an excellent 3/2/5. That also awarded me enough shards to get 1 yellow cover for Thor, which works pretty well with BRB, in addition to improvements to America Chavez, Valkyrie, Medusa, 4*Grocket and Hammernaut. Both PvE and PvP experiences were greatly improved.

    I did have to micromanage my 2*s to quickly free 2 roster slots in order to roster 3 Sandman covers and 1 Lockjaw. 1 Talos and 2 Northstar went to waste, which I'm not mourning.

    In the end, I still feel focusing on 5*s over 4*s was a good move at that point. The greatest regret is not having those 1200 CP to spend on the new Havoc store, which would be a great store to splurge.
  • ErikPeterErikPeter Posts: 718 Critical Contributor
    I think you're on to something.  B)

    The game is about collecting all the heroes. But you don't need to collect them tier by tier to make progress... That's very old common knowledge that doesn't hold up after six years.

    The traditional arguments all make sense and yes, ideally you have everyone so you never waste a cover and you get all the champ progress evenly. But in my experience--that is, one roster around day 2100 with every 2+ character, one experimental roster at day 280 with 5 star CMGW and just 6 other slots--the game is designed for players to jump tiers.

    It's not perfect. In particular, the cover gap between when you earn a 5 star and when you can actually use them effectively is proportional to your roster strength: A solid 4-champ trio will outshine your 5s until they hit...360? 390? But for a player with just a couple of 3-champs (or even still relying on 2-Stormneto), one 255 is a windfall, enough to jump to CL7 or 8. 

    And 'recent' 4-star releases have pushed this trend even further. Karnak, with some blue covers, by level 160 or so is as good or better than a mid-covered 5. He's so good they had to put a 5-star counter in (Killmonger). Juggernaut is wildly good in pve and conveniently shuts down the high match damage of 5-stars and Karnak in PvP. 

    I say all this only to affirm the fact that, as long as you are putting the time in anyway, it's not hard to get full completion with a limited roster using the rewards from the previous event. I hit CL9 in 3 months with only 7 slots in my roster, focusing on only Captain Marvels, which is one of the worst 5s. I reached full completion in Civil War and Galactus. If I can do that with 7, anybody should be able to do it with 50. 

    You keep some spots open for the required characters, trash some to make room for the next. Expand your roster when you can to hold onto the good ones. Eventually you'll get them all, without having to plod along at CL7 for a year just waiting to crack some LTs.

    You might get some kickback from Alliances who don't like the look of your half-completed roster, but as long as you put up the numbers it shouldn't matter. 
  • ThaRoadWarriorThaRoadWarrior Posts: 4,431 Chairperson of the Boards
    i wasn't playing with a roster that aggressively small, but i was definitely playing with a ruthless flex-slot on my way to 4* play. I would just hang on to the "good" 3 and 4* characters, and rotate out requireds as I got them by leaving everything on my vine. It was still a years-long proposition playing like that to ramp up.
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