New Minion Thoughts

JHawkInc

There's been chatter about the various things the game could use, smoothing out some problem areas (dilution, Supports), breathing new life into the game (making more of the roster matter, both in changing the meta and rewarding roster depth, new events, etc), and I'd like to start a discussion in a new direction, keeping in mind the same general theme of "ways to make the game better."

I think the game could use some new minions. Our last new ones were the Mindless Ones back in 2016. We've had new uses of existing characters (totally a good thing, especially with some of the thematic nodes like the 1v1 fights), but no new minion type.(you can skip the next paragraph if you don't want to hear me re-hash what's already in the game for reference)

Most minions in the game use countdowns. You've got some variety here and there, Hammer are pretty run-of-the-mill effects, stuff that's good for a tutorial but not very nuanced for the rest of the game, a solid "default" option. Shield are just reskinned Hammer dudes. Maggia are very blue/yellow/black, ISO-8 Mutants drop purple countdowns and have numerous effects that get stronger if there are enough on the board (and some self-destruction to boot). Hand has some punishment effects, steals tiles, traps, attack generation when downed, bonus damage if allies alive, Konran even hurts his allies. Mindless Ones focus on single special tiles and buff them, and have high health and a strong team attack, making them pretty brutish compared to other minions. Ultron drones generate special tiles and cascade effects (one destroys tiles if there are few specials out, the other two destroy if there are enough specials out, the first directly with a heal and the second via critical tiles). Symbiotes mix countdowns with passives, focusing on special tiles and countdowns that do something every turn and deal damage when expiring, with a couple that trade the every-turn effect for something else that combos into their kits (AP generation and bonus damage for having specials out).

Oh, and Doombots. Technically they exist.

So...

What could we add? Both from a mechanical standpoint, and from what Marvel character(s) could be represented with those mechanics. In broad terms, we could use minions that provide something different than the types above, minions that encourage new or broader playstyles, and thematically minions that could be used in more story modes (Mindless Ones as generic alien monsters for Honor Among Thieves is kinda stretching things, if you ask me). Anyways, here are my ideas/ramblings to start things off

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First, my thought is to have minions that interact with team variety. Say, Sentinels that punish you for having multiple X-Men on the team (then you stretch the fiction to apply to Avengers or Sinister Six or Guardians or whatever, then decide if huge groups like "Heroes" count, etc). You'd want them strong enough to make you consider changing your team, but not so strong that it breaks the flow if you DON'T switch. Something that makes character selection part of the "puzzle." Thematically, I imagine Sentinels having a "Scan" power (to detect Mutants), drop an "increment" tile (like, a "count up" instead of a "count down"), and have it increase based on team composition (so if you're running Storm and Patch and Thor, it drops a counter that starts at 3, 1 to default and +2 for the X-Men on your team). Then maybe a subsequent scan boosts that tile. Then you could have attacks more like traditional characters, countdowns that do damage, or destroy an area, or do team damage, and their strength is based off of the level of the Scan counter (with a cap so it doesn't get too out of hand). So the power would work against any team, but would scale up faster against teams based on a matching team affiliation.

Of course, that immediately makes you wonder what kind of mechanic could be added to benefit using teams of the same affiliation. A few characters have powers that work off of affiliation, but it would be cool to have a bonus for using a team of X-Men that doesn't care which three you have, for example (kinda like all of the team bonuses on the old Marvel Ultimate Alliance games).

My second thought is something like Strange's yellow. Something that triggers on a certain action, to cause you to not take that action (or to be more careful about when you take it). REALLY, I think having a minion that reacts when a Passive goes off would be interesting. Passives started becoming more dominate around fall of 2016 (early hints with Blade and Luke Cage, then a winter/spring full of Medusa, Carol, Agent Coulson, Rocket & Groot, and the 3/5 releases of Strange, Thanos, and Hawkeye). So what about an enemy that lashes back when passives are triggered (maybe some do damage, maybe some drop special tiles, maybe they naturally make countdowns and special tiles and when passives are fired they speed up countdowns or buff special tiles? just some thoughts). Suddenly a countdown heavy team like Hawkeye, Coulson, and Carol, will feed the enemy as much as it helps yourself. Kitty/R&G or half-health Thor will buff enemies going straight into the match. And suddenly old heavy hitters like Jean Grey and Iceman and Red Hulk and Bucky and Thing and Nova and Hulkbuster and so on, characters with heavy hitting powers, become more viable in the general meta again. Both to breathe value into those older characters, and to make general nuke powers more exciting on newer characters. Thematically, my best idea is a version of the Adaptoid. A character that gets stronger as you use abilities because it learns from them. Maybe it could have two separate powers, one that triggers off of passives, and one off of actives, so either option provokes a reaction? That might step on the toes of my idea to make higher-cost powers viable again. No idea if there's a better thematic choice from the comics.

Both could be used for a normal PVE and maybe a Boss (Master Mold and the Super Adaptoid?). Both could theoretically be used as weapons by other characters, so "Osborn modifies Sentinels to send after Spidey" gives you an excuse for an event that mixes Sentinels with Hammer dudes, maybe a dash of Sinister Six as well. I could see an Anniversary that features a new PVE one week, a boss with the same minions the next week, and then a winter event (whether Christmas or the following Jan/Feb) mixing those minions with existing minions and characters potentially going well. It doesn't sound as exciting as an entirely new game mode, but that's okay if it makes existing game modes more enjoyable to play, you know?

I think I had a third idea, but I've been typing this off and on all day as I've had free time, and can't remember what it was right now... Generally speaking we don't have a lot of repeater use, but I think that's something you add to an above idea. Like "This minion is designed to promote team variety, and their powers do so by using repeaters." A more daunting challenge, but maybe a new minion in each of the existing types, and re-tinkering the existing events to throw in the new minions, could be a welcome change. Similar thing for a few named characters. Dark Avengers events wouldn't be so bad if we had one or two new Hammer dudes and maybe Osborn as Iron Patriot and then Skaar (Hulk) or US Agent (Cap) or that lady that was the DA Scarlet Witch. I would kinda rather drop a 3* Osborn and do one final "Fall of the DA" event and then never put them in new events ever ever ever again, but going back to add new stuff to the existing events could help fix the problem that everyone finds them boring (and it would be an excuse for another Doombot or ISO-8 Mutant, or more "elite" dudes like Gorgon and Ultron Prime). Probably not worth it from a cost-benefit standpoint, but it's an idea all the same.

So, what do you think? New minions in MPQ, goal is to use new Marvel characters and breathe some life into the game, what would you do, why/how, etc?

Friarbundy

I think it’s a crime that there are no Sentinels in this game.

wymtime

Friarbundy said:

I think it’s a crime that there are no Sentinels in this game.

As I was reading this post the first thing that came to my mind was sentinels.  I think the Chitari could be good, and they could even put in the nova core or sovereign race from Guardians of the Galaxy 

n25philly

I think a fun idea for minions would be hydra.  They always say that if you strike one down, two more will take it's place.  Well, why not minions that do that, so you have to either stun them or take them out with aoe to actually finish the fight

DAZ0273

There are probably "status" effects that could be added to existing minions to change gameplay. For example, invisibility (ninja's) or airbourne (jet pack goons) without having to go to the cost of additional licensing fees, although I would prefer new minion types. Sentinels should have the ability to block or power down a random power (or possibly the power that has the most AP) from being used as part of their "learning programmes", I would include passives in this and base it off the good ol' countdown tried and tested system so that it is inoperable during that period the tile is on the board.

Dormammu

I've always had this lingering wish since launch that PvE enemies were entirely made up of goons. It seems a logical distinction to me between PvE and PvP and would separate the two modes into two different strategic play styles. (Plus, I'm always really irritated by Daken.) I miss the days when characters like 1-star Hawkeye, 2-star Fishnets, and 3-star Shieldbro were invaluable for their ability to remove countdowns. Kitty fits into that category, I guess, which is one of the reasons I really like her.

Anyways, I would be supportive of new goons. The Sentinels mentioned above are a good idea. The Brood would make another excellent goon type from the X-Men's rogue's gallery. Who are those guys the Mole Man bosses around? They'd be fun. Skrulls are another obvious choice that have been suggested on these forums many times. Of course, there is always A.I.M. and Hydra.

As long as any new goons don't take as long as Mindless Ones to rectify their actions between turns, or behave in any way like Sentries. While not difficult to defeat, those two groups are really annoying for other reasons and make me want to stop playing.

Shintok17

Talking about new minions, I think they should release M.O.D.O.K. as a character and at the same time add AIM Minions to the game as well for PVE.

peterdark

Talking of sentinels and making the game better, why not have a mutant only event? i.e. you can only use mutants or x-men for the event? 

Sentinels should be in the game somewhere but I think they would be a lot stronger than your standard goons. More akin to a sub boss I'd imagine.

Malcrof

Moving to suggestions after the weekend

Therealsmkspy

I'll take reskinned dark avengers as the Black Order at this point. Just something new to look at... 

Malcrof

For those who know what is coming for the mutants in the comics, i expect a big mutant event or release soon, or at least i hope so. 

Straycat

I think minions are severely limited right now. They have a mild range of abilities, and many can go unchecked with little consequence. Not saying the game needs to be harder, but it is interesting when you need to change strategies against specific opponents. Like Quake saving you against caltrops, or letting muscle make super strikes for you to steal. I think minions affecting your roster selection would be great for the game. What if they had Thanos infinite power ability, forcing you to match away a cd tile. Or just a minion version of strange/ starlord that reacts to you. CD tiles that inhibit or punish specific color matches. There are tons of possibilities, plus a ton of enemies not represented. That whole Thanos army is not in the game aside from a couple supports. 
Of course the argument against it is that it would worsen the grind. Non cd minions like sentries are generally hated.  

JHawkInc

n25philly said:

I think a fun idea for minions would be hydra.  They always say that if you strike one down, two more will take it's place.  Well, why not minions that do that, so you have to either stun them or take them out with aoe to actually finish the fight

Straycat said:

I think minions are severely limited right now. They have a mild range of abilities, and many can go unchecked with little consequence. Not saying the game needs to be harder, but it is interesting when you need to change strategies against specific opponents. Like Quake saving you against caltrops, or letting muscle make super strikes for you to steal. I think minions affecting your roster selection would be great for the game. What if they had Thanos infinite power ability, forcing you to match away a cd tile. Or just a minion version of strange/ starlord that reacts to you. CD tiles that inhibit or punish specific color matches. There are tons of possibilities, plus a ton of enemies not represented. That whole Thanos army is not in the game aside from a couple supports. 
Of course the argument against it is that it would worsen the grind. Non cd minions like sentries are generally hated.  

These two posts reminded me what my third idea was. The trick to beating the Hydra (Greek) was a specific weakness, burning the neck to prevent new heads from regenerating. Which fits the criteria of having opponents with specific strategies. 

So, just, have minions like Kaecilius. They only take damage through certain circumstances, but they're like Kaecilius, so if they take damage from getting strike tiles matched, they generate their own strike tiles. Any team can beat them, but you can obviously take teams that have distinct advantages against them (generate the strike tiles yourself, any sort of board control to make such matches easier, etc).

You could have a trio of Hydra (Marvel) goons that work like Kaecilius, generate attack/protect/strike, and only take damage from those tiles being matched, claim it's because of some armor/gear they're wearing. First power generates the tile, second says they only take damage from that tile, third is a normal countdown attack (one is direct damage, one is an AoE, one might do board destruction, to give them variety) They don't even need to be "immune" like Kaecilius, they could just passively resist damage (more like Rogue) and take bonus damage when those tiles are matched.

And yeah, there's a lot of possibility that's not represented. What if an enemy takes bonus damage based on how much of a color you have, and then all of their powers are about that color? So they take X extra damage per yellow AP you have (kinda like Okoye's passive, but inverted as a weakness?), then they have a power that steals yellow AP, one that converts yellow basic tiles to another color, etc. So you can brute force it, or you can build a team that doesn't need that color, or you can focus on generating that color, etc. Make six of them, and it's a color wheel. Maybe the yellow dude converts yellow into blue, but then the blue dude could convert it to black, causing cascades as they chain together.

Simple new minions could lead to loads of combos with existing characters. A dude that only takes damage when his protects are matched might be easier to deal with teamed with 2* Bullseye or 3* Magneto (or anyone else that makes protects), for example. Not having to fight Dark Avengers would be great, but making fights against them different in some events would be nice too, I think.

Yepyep

Dormammu said:

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As long as any new goons don't take as long as Mindless Ones to rectify their actions between turns, or behave in any way like Sentries. While not difficult to defeat, those two groups are really annoying for other reasons and make me want to stop playing.

This ⬆️100... Perhaps my biggest “**** do I play this mess just to be punished this way?” experience in the game. 

Yepyep

Malcrof said:

Moving to suggestions after the weekend

This is the right way to handle this. 👍🏼 Let the comment gather mass, perhaps critical, and then recategorize. It honors the poster’s choice which I think is important. 

A further statement: @Malcrof you do a really good job at moderating and nicely balancing your personal game commentary with being a hall monitor. Thanks for your efforts!