The Grand Experiment: Can you transition to 5*s pulling as you go as a progession-only F2P player?



  • ThaRoadWarriorThaRoadWarrior Posts: 4,833 Chairperson of the Boards
    “I’d like to try your wu-tang style...let’s begin then!”
  • ThaRoadWarriorThaRoadWarrior Posts: 4,833 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2019
    Re-champed 2* Bullseye, got a 3* Bullseye lvl 265, which gave a lvl 290 Kingpin, LT gave me

    Main Event: Green (lvl 285)

    I'm in that spot where I'm questioning my decision to chase JJ as my next 5*, so I ran the numbers again to see if I had any better options. Factors that determine whether or not someone is "better" to me are:

    How soon will i get them champable? 
    How "good" is the feeder at playing up since they will be head and shoulders leveled higher than my roster?
    How "good" is the subsequent 5* - am i chasing a lame duck just to get one over faster?

    I have 5 totally feedable 5*s, and nearly all of them are going to require me to collect all 6 covers from a 4*. this is my eval of my choices, not necessarily in priority order:

    Currently I'm chasing Jessica Jones via Chavez. I think my primary contender to this choice is Lumbercap via Bucky since it is significantly fewer covers to get him there:

    1) Jessica Jones (4/2/2) - Jessica seems like a solid defense 5* who likes being run with board shakers. She shares 2 colors with GR:RR, but her primary utility to me has always been that blue trap capability.

    Feeder: America Chavez - lvl 290, 70 covers to 360. Chavez might be the gold standard in play-up 4*s, particularly board shakers, so I don't feel bad at all maxing her out. her only real drawback is that she isn't fed by a 3*, so it's just 4* BH the hard way.

    2) Lumbercap (1/4/4) - I haven't played him at all, but he only shares one color with GR:RR and it's his big nuke. On the surface, he seems the most easily fed to completion with that cover spread.

    Feeder: Bucky (5/5/3) with 7 saved, 53 covers to 340. Bucky is a super marginal 4*, so having him that far ahead of the others doesn't seem awesome. He doesn't bring much to the table for 5* play, but this is by far my shortest path to a second 5* champion through the feeder system. he's also fed up through 2*, so that's a big plus.

    3) hawkeye (1/5/3) - he might be a solid partner for GR:RR even without the ability to fortify repeaters, his blue is mega cheap and I think i prefer his red to GR's. 

    Feeder: Kate Bishop (3/5/5) with 4 saved, so 86 covers to 360. It's a shame his feeder isn't Coulson, since they play so well together. I think KB is a decent 4*, but probably wouldn't play up with Clint or GR. Advantage is they are fed through 2*

    4) Old Man Logan (3/1/3): I like his true-heal, and he seems like he's not as bad as people want to make him out to be. But i don't think he is going to set the world on fire in opposition to the current meta. A hard turn-ending power at the 5* tier is sub-optimal, particularly in the face of my other black active being Damnation. I imagine he would be a meat shield with passive strike generation almost exclusively

    Feeder: XFW (3/5/5) 6 saved, 84 to 360. I was really hype to champ him after champing Domino, but less so now. he competes for colors with GR, so obviously not a great play-up 4*. Being double-fed by 3*s with a 2* feeding one of those does feel like a huge advantage to fast growth, but might not be in practice.

    5) 5* Lord: (5/1/3) - Primary utility seems to be with 4ocket, but he has 2 off-colors from GR:RR, one of which provides green acceleration with situational burst health, and the other can help with GR:RR's primary weakness vs kitty teams, which is no way to clear enemy specials aside from matching (his green can help here also). Obviously not top tier on his own, but perhaps those two will form a Gestalt? I don't love that both of them share a useful active green

    Feeder: Drax (1/4/5) with 2 saved, 91 covers to 360  - my worst covered non-new-or-limited 4*. I never play Drax, so i don't really know his deal that well. Doesn't strike me as a play-up 4*, particularly since my 5* character isn't primarily countdown based. Pros: has a 3* feeder, I've currently got Rock3t set as my BH to help get him closer to champable.

    The only other character i'd consider chasing this way would be:

    Okoye (5/2/1) - She doesn't help Ghost Rider that much directly, but she would force-multiply any lower-tiered required character i got saddled with quite handily. the problem here is that I can only feed her to 12 covers, which makes me reliant on a bonus hero along the way.

    Feeder: Shuri (lvl  278) 82 covers to 360. Shuri is really cool, but a bit of a slow starter without some way to jumpstart her fortifications. It's hard to say how well she would or wouldn't play up, but I would almost certainly use her red over Chain Whip to fortify the Hell Ride repeaters and make everything cheaper. Downside is there is no 3* feeder.

    Anybody have any recommendations?
  • ThaRoadWarriorThaRoadWarrior Posts: 4,833 Chairperson of the Boards
    Mystique gave me an LT
    wiccan: geeen (LT champ level)
    yondu: yellow

    got cp from webbed wonder
    Fury: yellow (3rd saved)
  • Daredevil217Daredevil217 Posts: 2,965 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2019
    I know you’re not hoarding but I’m holding out hope for a “Courageous Captains” vault for Captain Marvel’s release like the “Danger Doctor’s” vault we got for Ock’s rework. 

    Captain Marvel (Blockbuster Movie Tie-In)
    Captain America (First Avenger)
    Captain America (Infinity War)

    If so I’ll try to nab a red IW Cap cover in there for my 2/5/5 (+1). 

    I would go Okoye or Jessica honestly. Jessica is arguably the best defensive character and Okoye the best offensive. I wouldn’t try transitioning with two meh 5*. People would be attacking you non-stop with a Cap/GR, OML/GR, SL/GR combo. It’d be like now only MORE restrictive. So if you are going full 5* I think you need to pick a top tier. 

    Okoye and a few 4* will help you punch 5* teams and she has true healing for more sustained climbs.  Shes also not a terrible pair with GR. She’ll tank tons of black and he’ll have an awesome outlet boosted by her passive. They compete for red, but hers is probably better (it also allows targeted tile removal for Gritty). And you’d have an active yellow.  Also, Okoye/Medusa or Okoye/Thanos will likely net faster clears in PVE than you’re getting currently. 

    Jessica has more cover overlap.  Which sucks. The competition for black hurts the worst as both are great. Like you said though, having a beast mode Chavez is great as she’s like a 4.5 star.  Jess may result in slightly less hits but I’d imagine most 5* teams wouldn’t hesitate to smack around either one. Thus I’d go with the one that’s better/faster on offense and that is probably Okoye. 

  • ThaRoadWarriorThaRoadWarrior Posts: 4,833 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2019
    That's really good feedback, thanks. Safe to assume your Bucky is past giving out a red Lumbercap?

    I think the missing element in my equation is my expectation that spending only into latest is going to (eventually) result in a latest legend who is champable alongside GR, so really this is just for my longer-term bonus hero strategy. 

    I leveled Okoye to 300 pretty fast after I realized her deal (and that I had 5 covers on her "good" color), and she's been part of my fast-clear team for quite awhile already. I can bring her to 375 with the cover spread she has, and I think I'll do so. I need 172,005 iso (i just brought her to 316 with what i had) to do it. I have a 3* Royal Talon Fighter on her leveled to 150, and I never really paid attention to what it did, but that's a pretty good support. At 315, she only tanks Yellow for robbie, he is even tanking Team Up still, so she has trouble hanging on to it. 

    I can take JJ to 375 also, I'll probably do that next. She's currently at 300, but the cover spread I have on her is not as optimal for what she brings to the table. Looking at Damning Evidence and what it does, I'm really curious if she actually will synergize with GR or not. Those traps prevent Hell Ride from nibbling the red and black tiles it lands on - this may or may not result in better results after it gobbles the green out? I guess the good news is that Chavez got the weird color order on her feeder levels, so my next color is going to be blue.

    I actually think JJ+Okoye is probably the strong defense team I'd like, but there is no near-term path to covering both simultaneously that I see. I'm toying with the idea of setting my 5* BH to Okoye until she becomes feedable, and leaving my 4* BH on Chavez. At least till I get another blue, that way I can better evaluate how well Damning Evidence works with Ghost Rider's board-chewing ways.

    I'm also going to try saving up for a 40-pack daily deal in either Shuri or America's themed PVP store, should either come around again, ideally get a big infusion into them. 

    I guess it's worth mentioning I have a 5/0/2 Thano5 at lvl 345, and a lvl 288 G4mora. he could be brought up to 11 covers, but I really think he's going to be a health nightmare if I don't have a deep 5* roster to support him. Also that one time a year when 3* Thanos is required, it would be lame to have dual 5* MMR with one of them being locked out.

    I wish I'd been tracking my 4* BH acquisition rates from all sources, not just legendary pulls. it would really help determine a rough timeline for how long it's going to take for the shuri/chavez options.
  • Daredevil217Daredevil217 Posts: 2,965 Chairperson of the Boards
    Yeah my Winter Soldier is 297. So another saved cover coming soon. 

    I thought the goal of the experiment was to see if you could cover Latests without hoarding given your playstyle. If your goal is to get a 5* to pair with Robbie, then hoarding may be a better bet because you end up with special vaults all the time that may contain one of the characters you’re close to finishing. But I get that hoarding can be flat out boring. I’m looking at end game as the point where I’ll be able to break my hoard. 
  • ThaRoadWarriorThaRoadWarrior Posts: 4,833 Chairperson of the Boards
    I am trying to see if I can do it by spending as I go, but since that is totally RNG dependent, I like the idea of targeting something on purpose to beat the odds a little bit.

    I don’t know what my endgame is, I should probably pick something and get off the treadmill...
  • ThaRoadWarriorThaRoadWarrior Posts: 4,833 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2019
    Bag-man Yellow from the thanos pvp got me a heroic token. Got a 3* Fist good for 15cp, put me over 30.

    nova: Black 
    bonus hero
    chavez: Red (291)
  • ThaRoadWarriorThaRoadWarrior Posts: 4,833 Chairperson of the Boards
    Closed out webbed wonder, got up over 50pts total from that somehow

    Medusa: red
    ghost 4ider: green
  • ThaRoadWarriorThaRoadWarrior Posts: 4,833 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2019
    Got that crash token after sinking a little iso into Drax

    ghost 4ider: red (289)

    i ended up having to get 40 wins in the thanos pvp for that Nova. I can’t hang on to points for nothing y’all. 

    Okoye is at lvl 327 now. I’m curious what a mid-level 5* wingperson might do for my float point in PvP. Probably nothing.

    its been 19 pulls since my last 5*...
  • ThaRoadWarriorThaRoadWarrior Posts: 4,833 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2019
    Since I started pulling for Kingpin, I've had

    73 pulls in latest (taking the 3 i took in Masked Vengeance out of the total).
    I've earned enough to have taken 76 pulls, which means I'm earning on average
    2.05 pulls/day 

    7:73 were 5* (9.6%)
    1 5* bonus hero
    6 4* bonus heroes

    Latest Legends cover spread:
    Kitty Pryde: 2/2/0 *no longer in latest

    Cable: 1/3/1
    Kingpin: 0/0/2
    GE Doom: 0/0/0

    So far, it does not seem like the experiment is working lol.

    I guess I'm curious if i'll be seeing a rash of 5*s here shortly to bring my odds back up or not.

    Should the experiment prove to be a failure, I might go back to spending into classics to increase my volume of 4* acquisition and try to bank on feeders.

  • BlackBoltRocksBlackBoltRocks Posts: 2,399 Chairperson of the Boards
    I just went 18 pulls without a 5*. That streak ended with God Doom; that was my 4th Doom in fewer than 30 pulls, and I've gotten him four times in a row without interruptions from Cable or Fatpin.

    I also kept track of how many Cables, Pins, and Dooms I got from tokens that contained them.

    Cable: 8/193 (all Latest LT pulls)
    Fatpin: 5/129 (7 Fatpin debut store + 122 Latest LT pulls)
    Doom: 8/129 (10 Doom debut store + 119 Latest LT pulls)

    RNG will be RNG.
  • ThaRoadWarriorThaRoadWarrior Posts: 4,833 Chairperson of the Boards
    Sentry from S6 got me an LT

    flaptain: blue

    good for a couple CP that put me up enough to draw again

    emma frost: yellow
  • ThaRoadWarriorThaRoadWarrior Posts: 4,833 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2019
    Hit full personal progression in S6

    c4ge:yellow (279)

    longest dry streak in recorded history...
  • ThaRoadWarriorThaRoadWarrior Posts: 4,833 Chairperson of the Boards
    2* Bullseye got me a lvl 266 for Bulls3ye.

    Kingpin: Blue

    streak broken
  • ThaRoadWarriorThaRoadWarrior Posts: 4,833 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2019
    Thought about saving CP up for awhile in case of a special store, but then decided not to...for science. I figure I owe it to the experiment. So I had 36cp

    God Emperor Doom: Blue

    th odds still kind of “owe” me another one, but I don’t want to be greedy.
  • ThaRoadWarriorThaRoadWarrior Posts: 4,833 Chairperson of the Boards
    10cp from the Star lord pvp,

    God Emperor Doom: Blue

    three in a row, thanks RNG!
  • ThaRoadWarriorThaRoadWarrior Posts: 4,833 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2019
    I have Okoye paid up to 375 now (she was at 300 when I champed GR:RR)- feels like that took forever. In case anyone is wondering what this partial-build Okoye looks like, its:

    Okoye: 5/2/1 lvl 375 
    Y: 369
    R: 323
    B: 48
    P: 44
    G: 52
    Blk: 415
    TU: 208 (+90% damage)
    Crit: 4.5X

    B: Wakanda Forever!: +736 damage/TU AP in the bank, base team up damage is increased by 90%
    Y: Indomitable Spirit: restore 667 health/tu on the board, then convert 2 basics to TU
    R: deal 3252 and destroy a row, dealing 650/enemy strongest color destroyed

    In the Hooked on a Feeling pvp, I'm currently "floating" at 257 points, down from 600 last night. I'm at 15 wins, i'll probably need to hit 40 again if I want to get the Prof X in there. Even with the difficulties I've been having hanging on to points, I still finished the PVP season in 438th place. 

    I'm at this point more interested in landing the PVP tokens at 850 than the 4* (unless it's someone I need, or an LT reward level), since they are very reliable at giving out 4* bonus heroes. My Chavez is up to 292 already-one more level and she'll be tied with Rogue as my highest naturally leveled 4*.

    Trying to decide now what to do with my iso.

    1) Level my eligible 5*s up to 375 - will this help or hurt my PVP situation? Keep in mind I'm not trying to place, really, i just want to be able to climb to 900, ideally without a shield. My options are:

    Jessica Jones (4/2/2) 300/375
    Thano5 (5/0/2) 345/360
    DareDevil (5/1/1) 330/360
    5* Lord (5/1/3) 345/390
    Hawkeye (1/5/3) 315/390
    OML (3/1/3) 285/360
    Loki (3/4/1) 255/375
    Lumbercap (1/4/4) 255/390

    I have a bunch more I could take to 330 (bolt, gambit, phoenix, goblin, surfer, etc), but I don't think that helps much.

    2) Get back on champing 4*s. I have 37 un-champed 4*s, all but Namor, Ham, and Taskmaster are at 10 covers or more. 24 of those are at 209 already. I don't have too many top tier 4*s un-champed, so it's not really about filling in roster holes so much as it is widening my base of resource generation, and trying to make my life a little easier during 4* PVP events.  even useful baby champ 4*s don't really help me much in PVP - Ghost Rider is just too slow to win fast enough to hang onto points

    It costs about as much to take a 5* from 255 to 375 as it does to take a 4* from 70 to 270, which is around 375k iso.  It costs roughly 1/3 of that to go from 70 to 209. I may alternate back and forth - I think getting JJ up to 375 is going to at least tell me if she's worth chasing further, and after that I can focus on 4*s for awhile.

  • ThaRoadWarriorThaRoadWarrior Posts: 4,833 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2019
    10cp from Support Circuit got me to 25.

    Domino: Red

    Bonus Hero:
    Chavez: Green (lvl 293)

    Also, it turns out Okoye DOES tank team up over GR:RR now.
  • ThaRoadWarriorThaRoadWarrior Posts: 4,833 Chairperson of the Boards
    Magik seems like she’d help GRRR keep red on the board, but that team would be real slow.

    guess I’m throwing iso into Bishop though...
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