The Antidote to Burnout: A Fun Competitive Alliance

Colognoisseur

tl;dr: The cure for burnout is to just play as a team for the fun of it you might find out you gain way more than you lose.

I've participated in the thread about burnout happening because of Season 1 and the pressure of some alliances and players to perform.I wanted to show there is an alternative to all of that pressure and angst.
I am a member of Retribution and from the beginning when our Commander LordWill put us together our goal was simple to band together and work towards getting the highest rewards we could get. There was no, and continues to be, no minimum level of points or expectations on our members. All we ask is to be active scoring whatever you can and if we need a push to get into the top cover range to help us out. The only other request is to let us know when you will be on vacation or away from playing so we know you aren't inactive. We have dropped two players from Retribution since the beginning after they stopped playing. We can be competitive and in the case of the Falcon PvE we managed to all work together to come in first. We celebrated and there was no sentiment that we should do it again right away. We thought we had a lineup capable of finishing first and we proved it to ourselves and I think most of us were happy with that.
Everyone in our Alliance has a different playstyle we have front runners who start as soon as an event opens and are always leading the pack. We have players who wait until the last moment. We have the strategists looking for the perfect entry point. Together when the final bell rings on an event we have never missed out on a top tier cover reward and nobody has asked anyone to play differently than the way they always have.
As a result I can speak for myself I have had more fun and continue to have more fun working for my teammates. This Alliance re-energized my desire to do well beyond getting new covers. Now I score well and throw up a shield in PvP because my points mean one of my teammates gets a cover they don't have. I am thrilled to do that because when I need them to do weel for the thing I want a new character cover my teammates are busy scoring in the PvE or Season 1.
Are we the only alliance like this? i doubt it. Django Unbuffed, Deadpools Tacos, and Ace of Blades, to name a few, have all seemed to find this balance too.
If your alliance is feeling burntout step back take a break give everyone a month to play the way they want. You know what I think you'll find? A happier team a little less iso or hp but the same covers. Maybe you'll also find your joy for the game again. I know my Allaince makes me want to play more because I enjoy playing for myself first and my Alliance second. Give it a try Dr. Colognoisseur says it might work.

Unknown

So Kev42 gathered a few other forum veterans for a semi-casual alliance and we've since expanded into a 20-man semi-casual / semi-hardcore. We each score around 600 points in pvp, with about 5 or 6 people scoring 1K+. That has been sufficient for us to get the 3rd cover in every tourney but 2 (and one of those we missed by 48 points, which was admittedly frustrating). We're also in ~80th place for season 1, with a reasonable expectation of getting a Fury cover (not sure how the SHIELD Sim is going to play out, hence the "reasonable expectation").

The alliance fits my playstyle, I play competitively to a point and get enough rewards that I don't care about establishing my name at the top of the ranks (especially since there's no history of tourney winnings).

So I'm right there with you - I play about the same as I did before in PvE. In PVP, I approached it the same way I approached other online competitive games, which was to shy away from them. Alliances made me compete more, and I realized that the play is exactly the same as pve, just a different scoring system. So alliances helped me overcome my fear of pvp (downright crippling in Starcraft 2 or Civ V). And I still really enjoy the game quite a bit.

Unknown

I am actually asking this question on my Alliance right now. We seem to be heading to a "win" perspective rather than a "fun" one, which would make me want to play less. But then the guys are great and we all help each other out. We'll see.

WilsonFisk

I 100% agree with Colognoisseur on this one. I now spend as much time in alliance chat as I do playing. We're competitive, but fun comes first. The alliance aspect of this game has given me a second wind in this game and had made it much more enjoyable being able to work towards a common goal with good team mates.

Unknown

Casual is dependent on how you define it. For me getting 900 points is pretty casual, and obviously there are some that thinks getting 900 is too hard and there are also people who feels getting 900 is like not even playing the game.

Colognoisseur

Phantron wrote:

Casual is dependent on how you define it. For me getting 900 points is pretty casual, and obviously there are some that thinks getting 900 is too hard and there are also people who feels getting 900 is like not even playing the game.

That is true but the burnout comes from those who think 900 is too hard thinking they have to score that because others in their alliance think scoring 900 is casual. So they burn iso and hp on boosts and turn playing a game into something less joyful because they think they must score 900.

We just aren't that way and without looking I would say we have as many members who score 500 or less as score over a 1000 and that works fine for us. We are missing out on nothing of value by not implying or explicitly stating what each member should score.

EDIT: So I did just look and six players scored 1000 or higher and six players scored 500 or less leaving eight to score between 501-999. That seems like exactly the right mix to me. We finished 29 and we get the same rewards as the Alliance who finished much higher and is suffering burnout.

Without that pressure the burnout issue just goes away.

fedlex20

I am in one of those. Sitll burned out. Im quitting after season 1, dont wanna leave them hanging. But for me it was quite sudden. It was that i wasnt enjoying playing anymore and thats it. The alliance chat is fun and the forum is too, but not the game :S

And the thing is, failing to perform is kind of a snowball. Lets say you miss lazy daken. Then you wont be able to do the lazy daken nodes in the next pve. And we know thats how it is. And next thing you know, you missed another cover. And your alliance didnt make the top 100 in season 1 and missed Fury. So, a minimun amount of time/score is more or less requiered right?

My alliance is very fun and stress free, and coincidentally, most of us are in our 30's so we have some things in common, which makes it more fun to chat. But i burned out the same. Like i said to the other members, this game can be merciless

Unknown

I feel for the sub 100 alliances. Burn is just as real there every event you try to push up to cover range even if the points are not as high as the elite, and usually a lackluster reward makes it hard to find the joy.

Unknown

fedlex20 wrote:

I am in one of those. Sitll burned out. Im quitting after season 1, dont wanna leave them hanging. But for me it was quite sudden. It was that i wasnt enjoying playing anymore and thats it. The alliance chat is fun and the forum is too, but not the game :S

And the thing is, failing to perform is kind of a snowball. Lets say you miss lazy daken. Then you wont be able to do the lazy daken nodes in the next pve. And we know thats how it is. And next thing you know, you missed another cover. And your alliance didnt make the top 100 in season 1 and missed Fury. So, a minimun amount of time/score is more or less requiered right?

My alliance is very fun and stress free, and coincidentally, most of us are in our 30's so we have some things in common, which makes it more fun to chat. But i burned out the same. Like i said to the other members, this game can be merciless

This was me. DjangoUnbuffed is one of the most fun experiences I've had in gaming - ever. (It's why I hang around like a bad smell... ) However, I just wasn't enjoying playing daily any more. The GAME was a grind, and I didn't feel like I could miss a day (or two, or three) as I would let down my teammates. So I made the decision to step back. AND the team said I could stay on, it didn't matter, winning isn't what Django is about. They're a great bunch of guys who play well and were allowing Django to perform near the top. I didn't want to hold them back, and I didn't want to ride on their coat tails. So I made the choice to step down, and at the moment that was the best choice for everyone. (Though I miss the in game forum chats!)

They found a ready replacement in LazyAllorin, and I get to play the game MY way. I haven't missed a day yet, but some days I only play 2 or 3 matches, and I HAVE skipped entire PvP events. I have my life and my sanity back, and when I do play MPQ I actually... enjoy it. Weird, I know.

Everyone should find their own balance. I totally agree with OP's sentiment though - it's a GAME people. However, I think in a few months the alliance stuff will settle down, and hopefully like-minded players will find themselves in alliances together, leading to a happier place all round.

Unknown

Colognoisseur wrote:

Phantron wrote:

Casual is dependent on how you define it. For me getting 900 points is pretty casual, and obviously there are some that thinks getting 900 is too hard and there are also people who feels getting 900 is like not even playing the game.

That is true but the burnout comes from those who think 900 is too hard thinking they have to score that because others in their alliance think scoring 900 is casual. So they burn iso and hp on boosts and turn playing a game into something less joyful because they think they must score 900.

We just aren't that way and without looking I would say we have as many members who score 500 or less as score over a 1000 and that works fine for us. We are missing out on nothing of value by not implying or explicitly stating what each member should score.

EDIT: So I did just look and six players scored 1000 or higher and six players scored 500 or less leaving eight to score between 501-999. That seems like exactly the right mix to me. We finished 29 and we get the same rewards as the Alliance who finished much higher and is suffering burnout.

Without that pressure the burnout issue just goes away.

Yes, but that's possible because of the people not because of a tag. Your guys who score 1000 can easily say 'those guys getting 500 are holding us back', or the guys getting 500 can say 'these guys getting 1000 seems way too hardcore for me and it feels like I'm not contributing'. If you look at the seasons alliance score, pretty much every alliance in 5-15 (those are the range I can see) has someone below 5000 total score and someone considerably above 10000. Why are those two guys able to coexist in the same alliance that is clearly at a pretty high level overall? It goes beyond just a tag of 'casual' or not.

Unknown

I wanted to say the same fedlex and allorin just posted...

Unknown

if only i had an alliance like that. Feels like only 3-4 of us in the alliance I'm in do something but we rarely talk....

Beast1970

I wholeheartedly agree that the Commanders attitudes and group dynamic make all the difference. Our alliance is on the cusp of top 100 finishes, and we have done so in the past. We have dismissed a total of four players, if I remember correctly. Each of them occurred after multiple days of inactivity with no communication, and no responses to PMs sent. There is no minimum event score required, only the expectation of daily play and if not, the courtesy of communicating away times and expected return dates. We have been very open that while we want to be top 100, we have no desire to sacrifice the fun aspect to force a drive for higher rewards, and we have several members still converting from one star to two star that we realize will eventually be able to contribute much more with the support of the alliance. This philosophy has actually increased my satisfaction with the game, as we have a decently tight knit group. This has allowed me to interact with the in game chat, making those long grind sessions hidden from my wife in the bathroom much more fun!

Unknown

chadds wrote:

I 100% agree with Colognoisseur on this one. I now spend as much time in alliance chat as I do playing. We're competitive, but fun comes first. The alliance aspect of this game has given me a second wind in this game and had made it much more enjoyable being able to work towards a common goal with good team mates.

as a member of he tacos, i just want to echo chadds sentiment. we have fun. we play hard and compete. and we take breaks when we need it.

its all good.

Unknown

I think this is what I want with my Alliance. I'd like for us to be competitive, but I don't want to demand that members have to score X amount of points per event or else they're out. Of course, we're still trying to get members, so it's not like we can be too competitive, Alliance-wise.

Unknown

I agree with the OP but feel compelled to respond as it felt like a small shot at our alliance and Clintman's post. With seasons part of the meta, it has altered all alliances (for good or bad). We have been and always will be about having fun as a group and I will reiterate, we do not have point min thresholds for anyone. As OP pointed out, when you are in position for a top placing, you banded together to push for that top reward. We at Shield just found ourselves in that spot more often. Clint's post wasn't a woe is me, but just a reflection that we are experiencing what many others are or will and wanted to throw out ideas of how a happy medium could be reached for all. Yes, it takes an active role by the player to tone it down and find that happy medium. But is there really a big negative if 1 out of every 4 pvps was not alliance and/or season linked? With alliances, many have found people they can now call as friends and whether its real or perceived, many just don't want to let their friends down when you are right near that shiny prize, be it top 2 or top 100 cutoff.

At the end of the day, noone should be mad if you fall just short as long ad you have fun and I totally agree with OP that you need an alliance that agrees with that. Season 2 will be a better predictor of how alliances and players adjust and I hope we all, not just shield, find that happy balance.

Unknown

EvilSonGoku wrote:

many just don't want to let their friends down when you are right near that shiny prize, be it top 2 or top 100 cutoff.
.

But with the prize structure flattened out to such a degree, the 'drop off' between top 2 to top 3 is pretty insignificant (150 HP and a few ISO). The drop off to 100 to 101 is pretty insignificant (1 cover that will cost most users 400+ HP to hold onto). Granted that cover can make a big difference in a PvE event, but there is going to be a cut-off somewhere.

There are over 15000 alliances (1000 of which are probably serious), so the amount of players that are even on 'that bubble' is pretty small in the large scheme of things.

With that in mind, Clint's proposal seems pretty self-serving as his alliance is the most effected by the current system due to their drive to be number 1, not from anything the prize structure is encouraging. Also, he seems to want 'Seasons' to only count for tournaments that features new characters or covers. Another pretty self-serving thought.

Bacon Pants

I still find this game fun, albeit more frustrating in it's current form. I very much enjoy the alliance I am a part of, I find that we communicate well enough and I believe that we have a good time playing the game. Whether it's in alliance chat or forum chat, we are all complaining about the same issues...scaling, MMR, burnout, ect ect. (Though we're constantly reminded that they're working as intended...)

Alliances and Season 1 are causing a lot of friction across the map. Maybe for season 2 there should be less pvp's that are season based. I don't know how much that would help, but I feel like the nonstop pvp's are more of a chore than an event that people actually want to compete in. This becomes two pronged, as players do we want to continue the grind for minimal personal gain but to help the alliance? Or do we rest a bit and upset those in the alliance that are on the more competitive side. It's a very fine line to walk at times.

The devs have created a monster with the constant pvp related to season ranking. And to be honest, it is very ugly. I know that I'm not without blame here as well. I have my moments of in game over competitiveness too.

I don't know if any of this makes much sense, I'm typing it up on my phone before a conference call...

Unknown

It would be cool if they could bring PvE point totals more in-line with PvP points so you could use a PvE event (or two) to include into the Seasons totals. That way you wouldn't need so many PvP events and it would give people who don't prefer PvP a way to gain more points.



Although it might be too much of a shock to the playerbase when they are grinding lvl 200+ enemies for 10-30 points.

Unknown

Toxicadam wrote:

It would be cool if they could bring PvE point totals more in-line with PvP points so you could use a PvE event (or two) to include into the Seasons totals. That way you wouldn't need so many PvP events and it would give people who don't prefer PvP a way to gain more points.



Although it might be too much of a shock to the playerbase when they are grinding lvl 200+ enemies for 10-30 points.

Adding pve scores would be the worst thing in my opinion. As for Clint's proposal being self-serving, I guess I am drinking the koolaid and didn't see it as such. I still see it as speaking about a true issue that many players on this forum have already stated, too many events are linked to alliances or seasons and its causing a meta shift with possible unintended consequences - player fatigue and burnout.

Unknown

Dead pools aren't in that range at all - score or boot, regardless of lifetime commitments. Unless something's changed there lately.