Why doesn't 3* Gamora feed 4* Gamora covers?

Sm0keyJ0e

Whoops, everything I said is in the subject. Currently 4* Star-Lord is fed by both 3* Gamora and 3* Star-Lord. Silly! 4* Gamora has been out for many months now. This should be updated.

TPF Alexis

From what I've seen, they tend to update feeder characters in batches, and they haven't done a batch since G4mora came out. I'm sure it will happen at some point.

ThaRoadWarrior

I'm actually planning to exploit this before it gets changed; I missed out on 4* Lord due to vaulting, but I have a champion G4mora already. So I'm trying to hastily bonus-hero my way to a few more 4* Lords before they "fix" it. He's currently at 2/2/1, so any help i can get in that regard is nice. I'm wondering if the holdup is that 3* Rocket gives you Drax rather than 4ocket, and there is no obvious feeder 3* to backfill Drax? Maybe they're unrelated, but it seems like those two changes would be batched together.

DarthDeVo

They've tended to update a number of characters at once. However, the last time they did this was last April (I think). We're definitely due for an update, I'd think. 

And @ThaRoadWarrior, I was in the same boat, wanting to make sure I got my Grocket to 265 for the red Drax cover, which I didn't have at the time. Now my dupe champ is getting close to 183, and I'd now rather have G4ocket than Drax. Go figure. 

However, in my opinion, the biggest issue they need to address is the fact that the 4* tier is so much bigger than the 3* tier, and only continues to grow, while the 3* doesn't much these days. There only will be an increasing number of 4*s without a 3* feeder. 

I was really surprised when they announced the 5* feeders, that a 4* will give six covers for a 5*. Part of me wonders if they're going to restructure the 3* feeders to do something similar, maybe even doubling up on some characters. 

For example, Strang3 currently gives Nova covers. But maybe adjust the rewards so he gives both Nova and Mordo, who currently isn't fed by anyone. Adjust rewards throughout the tier so every 4* gets at least three covers from one 3*.

Of course, this is probably overly wishful thinking on my part. 

Bowgentle

Because it's WAY too hard to change feeders every time a new 4* enters the game.
This can only be done every 4 months.
Ancient rituals have to be invoked, the ghost of God Emperor Will has to be summoned and give his consent, and even then things might be broken.

Yeah, I don't know.
You'd THINK it wouldn't be a problem to change feeders every season, but apparently this would take time away from important stuff they're developing.
Like, at least 5 minutes per character.

DarthDeVo

Bowgentle said:

Because it's WAY too hard to change feeders every time a new 4* enters the game.
This can only be done every 4 months.
Ancient rituals have to be invoked, the ghost of God Emperor Will has to be summoned and give his consent, and even then things might be broken.

Yeah, I don't know.
You'd THINK it wouldn't be a problem to change feeders every season, but apparently this would take time away from important stuff they're developing.
Like, at least 5 minutes per character.

 Well, I dont know if I'd necessarily want them changing every month or season. Strategic leveling and use of bonus heroes can sometimes be the difference between a 4* character getting its 13th cover or being stuck at 5/5/2 if they decide to change the 4* cover rewards midstream when you're working on leveling a 3*.

And yes, others will benefit by having a 3* close to 183, 223, or 265 suddenly shift their reward to a 4* character they want or need. 

Just my opinion, but for planning purposes I'd rather have one big change every four to six months than a whole bunch of little changes every month or so. I'd think it would be hard to make an effective plan for your roster when the rug keeps getting yanked out from under you. 

bluewolf

One thought is this:  How many 3’s fed Latest 4*s while they were in Latest?  Gambit feeds Rogue, but of course, all other 3’s feed a “Vintage” 4*.  So maybe it gets updated when Gamora leaves next season (assuming a second 4* is coming in two weeks; otherwise the season following).   Since the updates are so infrequent, I can’t recall if there has ever been a 3* that rewards a Latest 4 from champ rewards.  Actually, that’s highly unlikely, since the last update was last April, around the time Vaulting became a thing.

Another thought is that awarding less exciting characters from 3* rewards puts more “Roster the all” pressure on players, which is probably the biggest single purchase driver among the standard player base.  If you know you’re getting XFW covers (from two different 3*s), you are more likely to roster him, even though he doesn’t help much in terms of actual play.

Anyway, maybe they’ll change it next month.

Spiritclaw

I'm just glad I got the Star Lord yellow cover I needed before the switch! He was 5/1/5, and now sits at 5/2/5 waiting for his final cover.

DarthDeVo

bluewolf said:

One thought is this:  How many 3’s fed Latest 4*s while they were in Latest?  Gambit feeds Rogue, but of course, all other 3’s feed a “Vintage” 4*.  So maybe it gets updated when Gamora leaves next season (assuming a second 4* is coming in two weeks; otherwise the season following).   Since the updates are so infrequent, I can’t recall if there has ever been a 3* that rewards a Latest 4 from champ rewards.  Actually, that’s highly unlikely, since the last update was last April, around the time Vaulting became a thing.

Another thought is that awarding less exciting characters from 3* rewards puts more “Roster the all” pressure on players, which is probably the biggest single purchase driver among the standard player base.  If you know you’re getting XFW covers (from two different 3*s), you are more likely to roster him, even though he doesn’t help much in terms of actual play.

Anyway, maybe they’ll change it next month.

I found the announcement thread from the last update, dated 4/21/17, about 1.5 months after vaulting started on March 1. Several of the updates were fairly logical (Blad3 to Bl4de, Iron Fist to Hobo Fist), and I think the majority of the updates included characters who were in Latests at the time. 

Of course, I think they've all since rotated out and that Rogue is indeed the only current Latest who is being fed by a 3*. I really feel like they dropped the ball by having Angel feed Teen Jean, since we already get her covers from Beast. The last thing we need is to be doubling up on characters when there are so many without a feeder at all. Angel should have rewarded Nightcrawler.

Now, I can understand the connection, as Angel and Teen Jean are both the All New X-Men versions. And I understand why they chose Beast to reward Teen Jean, as they're both OG X-Men. Maybe they'll adjust Beast to give Nightcrawler at some point. They are both blue and fuzzy, at least.

As much as I feel this issue could stand to be addressed, I'm not holding my breath. It's been almost nine months since they changed these. Doesn't necessarily seem to be a priority of theirs, although they've never really hinted at such changes in advance in the past. We just get an announcement that the changes will happen. So maybe we'll be pleasantly surprised.

Although honestly, at the stage of the game that I'm in, I'd rather they speed up rolling out the addition of 4* to 5* champ rewards. 

JHawkInc

Counterpoint:

Why does it need to change at all? What is inherently better about an even distribution of 3*'s feeding 4*s, and what is the benefit of linking the characters together?

If anything, a 3* Gamora giving you 4* Gamora covers is helping you cover a character you can't use at the same time, making those 4* covers less useful until your 4* Gamora eclipses the 3*. If anything, it would make more sense for 3* Star Lord to feed into 4* Gamora so that problem doesn't exist.

An argument could even be made that increasing roster diversity would suggest that the 3* Guardians should give anyone BUT the 4* Guardians for their champ levels.


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The reality is that with new 4*s coming out all the time, and new 3*s coming out occasionally, trying to line them up based on characters is going to remain sloppy for the lifetime of the game. So why stick to such a pattern at all?

ThaRoadWarrior

Right now, there is a single 5* character that can be farmed directly from 2* (bull2eye->bulls3ye->Kingpin->5aredevil), so you could make the case that particularly G4mora, being a 4* that already feeds a 5* (thano5), could use a 3* feeder. 

bluewolf

@JHawkInc   Literally every 3* that has a 4* version in the game, except R&G and Gamora, rewards the 4* covers. That said, you raise a valid point.  The upside of having two characters rewarding the same 4 is that you can cover them a little more easily.

DarthDeVo

JHawkInc said:

Counterpoint:

Why does it need to change at all? What is inherently better about an even distribution of 3*'s feeding 4*s, and what is the benefit of linking the characters together?

If anything, a 3* Gamora giving you 4* Gamora covers is helping you cover a character you can't use at the same time, making those 4* covers less useful until your 4* Gamora eclipses the 3*. If anything, it would make more sense for 3* Star Lord to feed into 4* Gamora so that problem doesn't exist.

An argument could even be made that increasing roster diversity would suggest that the 3* Guardians should give anyone BUT the 4* Guardians for their champ levels.


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The reality is that with new 4*s coming out all the time, and new 3*s coming out occasionally, trying to line them up based on characters is going to remain sloppy for the lifetime of the game. So why stick to such a pattern at all?

 I'm not sure I'm following what you're saying. Are you saying that because the game doesn't allow you to run 3* Gamora and 4* Gamora on the same team, that it doesn't make sense to be developing the 3* character to a high level to get those 4* covers? That pumping up the 3* version leaves the 4* version behind? 

I could see that maybe making sense if the 3* and 4* versions of characters were identical, but in most cases they have rather different skill sets. It may make sense to bring 3* Gamora to a certain fight, but not the 4* version, and vice versa.

Personally, once I champed 4* Gamora, I didn't touch the 3* unless I had to. Not that I used her much in the first place. But 4* Gamora is easily one of my Top 5 used 4*s, especially paired with 5* Daredevil. 

I think they try and match feeders as close as possible for a logical progression of rewards, or at the very least a thematic one. Just a nice bit of fan service. 

Although I don't think I'll ever understand the decision to have 3* Thanos reward Spider-Woman covers. Is there some comics history there I'm unaware of? 

ThaRoadWarrior

Well, that's not entirely the case that all the existing 3*s feed their 4* version; Banner Hulk 3* gives you Awesome Hulk (ammadeus cho who locks out other banner hulks even though he is not banner), even though there is now Main Event Hulk, who is a banner-based Hulk. 

3* Thor gives out Red Hulk rather than Lady Thor who comes from Storm. Ragnarok kind of inexplicably feeds X-23. Cap gives Bucky, which is thematic, but Peggy comes from Psylocke.

Seems like Thanos ought to give out Drax since fighting him is sort of Drax's deal, so 3* Rocket could give out 4* Rocket.

shardwick

ThaRoadWarrior said:

I'm actually planning to exploit this before it gets changed; I missed out on 4* Lord due to vaulting, but I have a champion G4mora already. So I'm trying to hastily bonus-hero my way to a few more 4* Lords before they "fix" it. He's currently at 2/2/1, so any help i can get in that regard is nice. I'm wondering if the holdup is that 3* Rocket gives you Drax rather than 4ocket, and there is no obvious feeder 3* to backfill Drax? Maybe they're unrelated, but it seems like those two changes would be batched together.

Yeah, I need to do the same. I had Colossus as my bonus so he could get me my 13th cover for Wolvie but he needs like 20 covers and my Star Lord is only six covers away from St4r Lord's yellow. Granted I doubt they would change that one but I don't want to take any chances. Try and grab both before they change Colossus to someone else.

ThaRoadWarrior

I got my 3* Gamora to champ earlier this week, so we'll see if I can get there before it changes. Even if it does though, i've had a string of G4mora covers out of classic legends lately, so she's 3 covers from giving me another black Thano5. I'll be down for that either way. But i'm expecting 4* Lord to start giving gout 5* Lord eventually, and that is my most covered 5* right now at 2/1/3. I also found space to re-roster 3* Lord, but he's only at like 1/2/0 right now. He seems unlikely to start giving out somebody else suddenly to me as well.

j0nats

i am of the opinion that its because they dont want to give out 5thanos so easily, because 4gamora gives out 5thanos champ rewards.

so... no feeders for 4gamora.

also, keep postponing thanos as 5e in pve so as not to make him available in heros for hire

jamesh

DarthDeVo said:

Although I don't think I'll ever understand the decision to have 3* Thanos reward Spider-Woman covers. Is there some comics history there I'm unaware of? 

It's probably because Spider-Woman is a skrull, so they have matching chins.

axmoss

Of course, I think they've all since rotated out and that Rogue is indeed the only current Latest who is being fed by a 3*. I really feel like they dropped the ball by having Angel feed Teen Jean, since we already get her covers from Beast. The last thing we need is to be doubling up on characters when there are so many without a feeder at all. Angel should have rewarded Nightcrawler.

Now, I can understand the connection, as Angel and Teen Jean are both the All New X-Men versions. And I understand why they chose Beast to reward Teen Jean, as they're both OG X-Men. Maybe they'll adjust Beast to give Nightcrawler at some point. They are both blue and fuzzy, at least.

If reworking the champ rewards of 3* to 4*, why not have
-Mystique reward Nightcrawler (her child) instead of Iceman (All-New X-Men). 
-Beast/Angel reward Iceman (because they were all 3 were part original X-Men team) or is it because it's the All-New that the original team is no longer the connection?

ThaRoadWarrior

Having a brand new 3* (angel) reward a duplicate of a vintage 4* (jean grey) rather than a latest X-Man like Nightcrawler was a strange choice to me as well.