First 4* Champ and PVE Scaling

Kavosseay
Kavosseay Posts: 14 Just Dropped In
in Roster and Level Help
So I'm rapidly approaching my first fully covered 4*, Hulkbuster (woo!), but I'm hesitant to champ by itself due to scaling. Problem is I will have basically 4 covers on the vine wasted if I don't champ. My original plan was to fully cover something like 5 4* and then champ all at once.

At the moment I have 4 lvl 255 5* and my 5 highest lvl 3* are between 190-207.

Will my PVE scaling jump significantly if I suddenly introduce a lvl 274 HB? Should I just sell the vine HB covers and wait til I have more ready to champ? Or am I overthinking this and should just champ him!


Any thoughts are appreciated!

Comments

  • Nick441234
    Nick441234 Posts: 1,496 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2017
    Do you have any 4*s between the level 255 5*s and the 207 3*s? 

    All my 5*s are at 255 and then I have 4*s at 225 and then 3*s starting from 223 and going downwards. My scaling maxes out at level 304, which my roster can cope with. 

    If your roster is similar to that then adding a 274 HB should realistically probably only add 5-10 levels to your scaling. 
  • Kavosseay
    Kavosseay Posts: 14 Just Dropped In
    Nope all at lvl 144 or below
  • Calnexin
    Calnexin Posts: 1,078 Chairperson of the Boards
    My understanding is that boosts are taken into account for your scaling, so your 3*s will already put you at the level of a champed Hulkbuster.  When he's boosted he'll just be one character and your average level won't change all that much.  You'll probably see a small increase in enemy level, but not significant enough to worry about it.  Especially not significant enough to give up those four champ levels.
  • Nick441234
    Nick441234 Posts: 1,496 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2017
    OK. Your 255 5*s will be creating you scaling right now because you have 4 of them so adding a 274 to that will raise it. As I said, it should only really add 5-10 levels onto your scaling. I guess its down to whether you think your 3*s can cope with another rise in scaling? 

    I still use a handful of my 3*s against level 304 opponents but I'm not sure I'd want to solely be using 3*s. 
  • MissChinch
    MissChinch Posts: 509 Critical Contributor

    I strongly recommend leveling a few solid PvE 4*s at once for your jump into the 4* tier...  You will absolutely see a scaling increase, but with 4*s that are good at dealing with both PvE goons and PvE heroes you could get by with only championing 3-4 of them and have reasonably quick clear times...


    Vaulting has recently caused me to scrap my softcapping strategy and jump from a roster where my highest levels were 5*s at 255 followed by 3*s and 4*s around the 200 level to multiple champion 4*s, so the increase in scaling I'm basing this response on happened under recent game mechanics.

  • BoyWonder1914
    BoyWonder1914 Posts: 884 Critical Contributor
    Logically, you hit it on the head. Scaling is still determined by your top 3 (includes boosted) so your first champ of a new tier is practically guaranteed to cause a jump. You're much better off doing 3 at once if you're trying to keep scaling in check. 

    However:

    1) Boosted champed 4s are ridiculously fun, and usually trump scaling increases
    2) If you've got the vast majority of your 3s champed, they tend to end up around the same level as a low champed 4 when boosted. So the scaling jump shouldn't be debilitating regardless.
    3) IMHB is vaulted, and who knows when you'll get THAT many champ levels again. He's top tier, and quite literally one of the best 4s to champ early for a 3-4* transitioner. Pair him with IF and punch everything away!

    DO IT!
  • Kavosseay
    Kavosseay Posts: 14 Just Dropped In
    In my experience 5* don't increase scaling since I recently added my fourth one without any change in scaling. Also I don't think boosts affect it either since scaling remains basically static across events despite changes in who is boosted. Do others have a different experience?
  • MissChinch
    MissChinch Posts: 509 Critical Contributor

    Kavosseay said:
    In my experience 5* don't increase scaling since I recently added my fourth one without any change in scaling. Also I don't think boosts affect it either since scaling remains basically static across events despite changes in who is boosted. Do others have a different experience?


    Its likely OBE now, but at the time that 5* IM and 5* Cap were introduced there was a marked difference in PvE scaling for a 166/7 roster.  This was true despite the PSA released outlining the notion that 5*s should not dramatically impact your PvE scaling.... 


    I have no idea if they changed anything since, but I'd been utilizing a roster where my 5*s were a good 50 levels over any of my other characters for a while and I saw no decrease that would be in line with 5*s being removed from scaling calculations.

  • justsing
    justsing Posts: 507 Critical Contributor
    When I champed my first 4* (C4rol), all of my 3*s were level 187 and under, and I had a couple level 255 5*s. I saw about a 20 level increase in the scaling for my hardest node. It went from level 272 to level 293, and I don't think C4rol was boosted at the time. After champing 2 more 4*s, my scaling jumped to level 320, but one of the 4*s was boosted. So I have no idea whether boosts factor into scaling...
  • MissChinch
    MissChinch Posts: 509 Critical Contributor

    Scaling has been an enigma for a while, claims of it taking just the top 3 characters into account, proof of it taking more, claims of 5*s no longer skewing scaling for early rosters and examples of it still hosing people...  They don't post specifics and they don't post changes, so I think we just have to resign ourselves to never being able to be sure about it, best we can do is look at it anecdotally with the more recent info being better...


    All I got for the OP is that yes, going from a roster where 5* 255 heroes is your highest to one that has one or more champ 4*s will have a noticeable impact on scaling, if that sort of thing bothers you, I'd strongly recommend taking a few good PvE 4*s up to 270 at the same time.   On a side note, champ 4* land appears to be easier in terms of PvE, however it seems to take a similar amount of time or longer than champ 3* land (with only a handful of 4*s championed, but those being "good" pve options)

  • shartattack
    shartattack Posts: 370 Mover and Shaker
    Don't worry at all about scaling.  Any minor increase will be more than dealt with by HB. Don't throw out 4 stars unless you absolutely have to.
  • Kavosseay
    Kavosseay Posts: 14 Just Dropped In
    Well I will have a couple weeks to think it over and I will post my findings here :)
  • Lukoil
    Lukoil Posts: 266 Mover and Shaker
    edited May 2017
    justsing said:
    When I champed my first 4* (C4rol), all of my 3*s were level 187 and under, and I had a couple level 255 5*s. I saw about a 20 level increase in the scaling for my hardest node. It went from level 272 to level 293, and I don't think C4rol was boosted at the time. After champing 2 more 4*s, my scaling jumped to level 320, but one of the 4*s was boosted. So I have no idea whether boosts factor into scaling...
    I have something around 25 4* champs. Almost all the time atleast 2 champs are boosted (level 350+). I also have 300 lvl oml. My highest enemies are 323. So boosting doesn't increase scaling.
  • Rick_OShay
    Rick_OShay Posts: 765 Critical Contributor
    As long as you keep your 5*s at low levels (255 - 270), adding one 4* champ at a time will not make a significant difference in your scaling.
    When people suggest leveling 3 or 4 four-stars at once, they mean that you will be expected to almost always be playing those characters alone (since your 3*s will find it hard to keep up with the difficulty jump).
    I champed one 4* at a time (17 now), have always had a PvE focus, and the leveling has been very manageable/fair each time. 

    Vote: Do NOT waste the opportunity to champ HB and use those covers!
  • Jaedenkaal
    Jaedenkaal Posts: 3,357 Chairperson of the Boards
    You'll be fine. And hulkbuster is pretty sweet. AND he's boosted for this event. Go for it.

    Do it, Doug.
  • Ducky
    Ducky Posts: 2,255 Community Moderator
    *Off to Roster and Level Help you go!*
  • Kavosseay
    Kavosseay Posts: 14 Just Dropped In
    Barely made top 5 to get these last HB covers... I need some more time to get one more black cover from hfh but then I'll be ready!
  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 3,190 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2017
    Kavosseay, I hope you post your findings if you do champ him.

    I'm in a similar position but my 3* and 4* are slightly behind yours (soft capped between L110-125).

    Before I rostered any 5* my top PvE nodes were capping out around 200 which is roughly where my top boosted characters would be.

    Since vaulting happened I started to open my LT horde and have now rostered a half dozen 5* at L255. My top PvE nodes are now capping out around L250 which is an increase of 50 levels.

    However I have not leveled any other characters past 125. However I do have many more characters at L110-125 range (and most of the newest 14 or so 4* are 10+ covers).

    So *something* changed to push my scaling up 50 levels. Either it was rostering the 5* or the fact that my total number of boosted characters is now around 10-12 because I have almost every 3&4 character rostered and in the 110-125 range (a few months ago I had maybe half that boosted each week).

    You didn't mention what your current nodes top out at by I'd assume since your 3* are 166 that boosted they are around 266 and so your around 280 range after 4 clears. HB at 270 is basically the same as a boosted 3* at 266. Except of course weeks when he is boosted. So on non-boosted weeks you may not notice any difference unless a 4* at 270 is weighted a lot higher than a 3* at 266 (anyone know if that's the case).


    KGB
  • revskip
    revskip Posts: 1,005 Chairperson of the Boards
    My original plan several months ago was to do a group of three or four 4* champs at once when I finished champing all the 3*s (before they started releasing new ones).  Then I got a bunch of Peggy covers.  

    Champed her and I have never regretted it.  Scaling went up slightly, maybe 15 levels or so but the ease of my clears improved dramatically and all of a sudden I could climb much quicker and higher in PVP.  While I don't have a champed Hulkbuster he is considered to be top 10 material by most of the community just like Peggy and I am fairly certain that your experience would be similar to mine.  Champ him and reap the benefits.  
  • granne
    granne Posts: 852 Critical Contributor
    revskip said:
    My original plan several months ago was to do a group of three or four 4* champs at once when I finished champing all the 3*s (before they started releasing new ones).  Then I got a bunch of Peggy covers.  

    Champed her and I have never regretted it.  Scaling went up slightly, maybe 15 levels or so but the ease of my clears improved dramatically and all of a sudden I could climb much quicker and higher in PVP.  While I don't have a champed Hulkbuster he is considered to be top 10 material by most of the community just like Peggy and I am fairly certain that your experience would be similar to mine.  Champ him and reap the benefits.  
    That's almost exactly the same as my experience. I didn't want to miss the chance to champ Peggy, so I took her up solo and it was great.

    I was lucky with pulls and managed to get several more champed in a short space of time, and while my scaling has gone up, so has the strength of my roster, so it's been fine.

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