Newb Report 01: Legendary Token Fail

Dex 007Dex 007 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 13
edited November 2016 in Theories and Statistics
Finally decided to turn in the few legendary tokens I've gathered since starting MPQ. I was totally bummed when one of the three returned a 5* Green Goblin cover. As a day 95 player who has been leveling broadly rather than narrowly I absolutely cannot use this as a 255/89/89 level average would make the difficulty un-playable.

Now while I understand that not all rewards should be applicable to all player levels, the thing that puzzles me is that the starting level for the 5*'s is completely out of line with the design that seemed to be in place up to that point. For the other rarities there seemed to be a very consistent calculation of new start level around 42% of previous rarity max and new max level chosen so that the previous max is about 50-60% of the new one. The 5* blows this out of the water; it's like they skipped 5 and 6 stars and went right to 7 (well, 6.5 to be fair), but only on the start level.

I would of thought that the game design would have been something like this:
                    Cstart/
Stars Start  Max     Pmax    Pmax/Cmax
1       1      50	
2      15      94    .300      .532
3      40     166    .426      .566
4      70     270    .422      .615
5     115     450    .426      .6
6     190     750    .422      .6
7     315    1250    .42       .6

Instead we get 5* characters that start out at 255. No wonder the current game for higher level players (doesn't include me) appears to be broken in favor of 5* or nothing. I'd almost think that someone fat fingered a number somewhere and it snuck past testing.

Heck, if the 5* GG I just got was only level 115 I could actually consider rostering it and sucking up the difficulty bump until I leveled up a few more heroes/villains. Instead, sometime in the next two weeks I'll have to discard it for a miserly 2000 ISO. It's such a waste that I'm not sure I'll even want to turn in more legendary tokens until I can actually take the hit of a 5* bump.

edited with proper ISO for 5*
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Comments

  • We_are_VenomWe_are_Venom Age Unconfirmed Posts: 308 Mover and Shaker
    Sell it. You won't need it for months, or years, if ever really, so it's not like you'll be missing out on much other than the cool factor. Hoard your tokens and CP until the scaling won't bother you.
  • PhumadePhumade Posts: 1,933 Chairperson of the Boards
    Sadly, they thought that getting a 255 char would be a real leg up for beginners. Its the law of unintended consequences, it would have been much better if they had just given the cover a default value of level 70.
  • wiriuswirius Age Unconfirmed Posts: 667
    It was intended to give value to 5*'s with just one cover. If you make 5*'s incredibly rare and randomly rewarded, it needs to be this way. If not, people won't be excited about them and bang their head against a wall for the year or two it will take to max one.
  • DeNappaDeNappa Posts: 1,024 Chairperson of the Boards
    Well.. Considering 1 cover 5*s start at level 255 but can be leveled to 270 without any additional covers, they could also have chosen to start them at an arbitrary lower level. For example let them start at level 100 and make the first 155 levels super cheap. That way, even people with a less strong roster could add that 5* without the game immediately becoming insta-lose.
  • TxMooseTxMoose Age Unconfirmed Posts: 4,319 Chairperson of the Boards
    unfortunately the 4* you might have gotten would not have bettered your playing experience. hold LTs until you 1) have the hp to roster characters you don't have and 2) can handle the scaling of a possible 5*.
  • MarvelManMarvelMan Posts: 1,350
    TxMoose wrote:
    unfortunately the 4* you might have gotten would not have bettered your playing experience. hold LTs until you 1) have the hp to roster characters you don't have and 2) can handle the scaling of a possible 5*.

    And if you have 4* near max 3) Iso to level up any tier 1 chars you get champ covers for.



    (this is the one that gets me.....every time: looking at you X23)
  • CymminaCymmina Posts: 412 Mover and Shaker
    TxMoose wrote:
    unfortunately the 4* you might have gotten would not have bettered your playing experience. hold LTs until you 1) have the hp to roster characters you don't have and 2) can handle the scaling of a possible 5*.

    Except for the part where having a 4* character allows you to be more competitive in PvE.

    Getting screwed by scaling by obtaining a 5* is an artificial problem that shouldn't even exist. Come to think of it, the insane cost of roster slots, especially for less developed rosters, shouldn't exist either. Why are you defending this ****?
  • PeterGibbons316PeterGibbons316 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 1,063
    Cymmina wrote:
    TxMoose wrote:
    unfortunately the 4* you might have gotten would not have bettered your playing experience. hold LTs until you 1) have the hp to roster characters you don't have and 2) can handle the scaling of a possible 5*.

    Except for the part where having a 4* character allows you to be more competitive in PvE.

    Getting screwed by scaling by obtaining a 5* is an artificial problem that shouldn't even exist. Come to think of it, the insane cost of roster slots, especially for less developed rosters, shouldn't exist either. Why are you defending this tinykitty?
    The only problem I see is with your perception. Legendary tokens are end game content meant for end game players. If you want to open your LTs and try to skip over the 3* and 4* mid game then things are going to be a little wonky for you for a while, so either deal with it, or wait until you have progressed to the point where you can start enjoying end game play.
  • fight4thedreamfight4thedream GLOBAL_MODERATORS Posts: 1,174 Chairperson of the Boards
    Cymmina wrote:
    TxMoose wrote:
    unfortunately the 4* you might have gotten would not have bettered your playing experience. hold LTs until you 1) have the hp to roster characters you don't have and 2) can handle the scaling of a possible 5*.

    Except for the part where having a 4* character allows you to be more competitive in PvE.

    Getting screwed by scaling by obtaining a 5* is an artificial problem that shouldn't even exist. Come to think of it, the insane cost of roster slots, especially for less developed rosters, shouldn't exist either. Why are you defending this tinykitty?
    The only problem I see is with your perception. Legendary tokens are end game content meant for end game players. If you want to open your LTs and try to skip over the 3* and 4* mid game then things are going to be a little wonky for you for a while, so either deal with it, or wait until you have progressed to the point where you can start enjoying end game play.

    You know it has always bugged me that they allow new players access to both LT and CP (particulary in PvE) which as you aptly described should be "end game" content (which no new player would actually know since it's not indicated anywhere). I understand the business reasoning behind it, a new player opens said token and gets an ultra rare 4* and 5* characaters so they feel compelled to put them on their roster but from a game design standpoint it makes little sense. Then again we all know that the game is in dire need of a redesign for it's reward system.
  • pheregaspheregas Posts: 1,521 Chairperson of the Boards
    When my wife started playing a couple months ago, she pulled a surfer fairly early on.

    It was her favorite character for a while since it acted as a giant meat shield and made the fights a little easier while she was building her rosters.
  • BlackSheep101BlackSheep101 Posts: 2,023 Chairperson of the Boards
    Wait and see how your scaling fares. Avoiding the 1 cover 5* screw is one of their goals for the new PVE, too.
  • PeterGibbons316PeterGibbons316 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 1,063
    Cymmina wrote:
    TxMoose wrote:
    unfortunately the 4* you might have gotten would not have bettered your playing experience. hold LTs until you 1) have the hp to roster characters you don't have and 2) can handle the scaling of a possible 5*.

    Except for the part where having a 4* character allows you to be more competitive in PvE.

    Getting screwed by scaling by obtaining a 5* is an artificial problem that shouldn't even exist. Come to think of it, the insane cost of roster slots, especially for less developed rosters, shouldn't exist either. Why are you defending this tinykitty?
    The only problem I see is with your perception. Legendary tokens are end game content meant for end game players. If you want to open your LTs and try to skip over the 3* and 4* mid game then things are going to be a little wonky for you for a while, so either deal with it, or wait until you have progressed to the point where you can start enjoying end game play.

    You know it has always bugged me that they allow new players access to both LT and CP (particulary in PvE) which as you aptly described should be "end game" content (which no new player would actually know since it's not indicated anywhere). I understand the business reasoning behind it, a new player opens said token and gets an ultra rare 4* and 5* characaters so they feel compelled to put them on their roster but from a game design standpoint it makes little sense. Then again we all know that the game is in dire need of a redesign for it's reward system.
    Changing the progression rewards from LTs to 25 CP and allowing CP to be used to purchase 3* covers helps a lot. It allows newer players to still use that end game content in their current game......or save it for later if they wish. IMO the only LT rewards should be from 4* DDQ, every other LT should be replaced with 25 CP rewards.
  • Dex 007Dex 007 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 13
    tinykitty it, you guys are right! I redeemed without checking the specifics behind the blue question mark. I assumed that 3* covers were to LT what 2*'s are to HTs, i.e. that almost everyone would be a 3* with a small chance of a 4* and a quantum level chance of a 5*. Since I've built up a decent amount of 3* with low cover counts I thought it was a good time to redeem the LTs. No wonder I got such a "lucky" draw.

    So where are the 3* tokens? We have Heroics if you want 2* and Legendary's if you want 4*, but there is not a token that gives an acceptable return of 3*. Why the hole right in the middle? I mean, the DDQ is nice, but a token option would be appreciated.
  • KeeganKeegan Age Unconfirmed Posts: 284 Mover and Shaker
    Dex 007 wrote:
    tinykitty it, you guys are right! I redeemed without checking the specifics behind the blue question mark. I assumed that 3* covers were to LT what 2*'s are to HTs, i.e. that almost everyone would be a 3* with a small chance of a 4* and a quantum level chance of a 5*. Since I've built up a decent amount of 3* with low cover counts I thought it was a good time to redeem the LTs. No wonder I got such a "lucky" draw.

    So where are the 3* tokens? We have Heroics if you want 2* and Legendary's if you want 4*, but there is not a token that gives an acceptable return of 3*. Why the hole right in the middle? I mean, the DDQ is nice, but a token option would be appreciated.

    The Big Enchilada gives you a guaranteed daily 3* with no competition. Compared to the other cover sources, I think you're giving DDQ too little credit for what it provides. Would you rather have random tokens, or a guaranteed cover? I'll take the cover.
  • SmudgeSmudge Posts: 562 Critical Contributor
    Keegan wrote:
    Dex 007 wrote:
    tinykitty it, you guys are right! I redeemed without checking the specifics behind the blue question mark. I assumed that 3* covers were to LT what 2*'s are to HTs, i.e. that almost everyone would be a 3* with a small chance of a 4* and a quantum level chance of a 5*. Since I've built up a decent amount of 3* with low cover counts I thought it was a good time to redeem the LTs. No wonder I got such a "lucky" draw.

    So where are the 3* tokens? We have Heroics if you want 2* and Legendary's if you want 4*, but there is not a token that gives an acceptable return of 3*. Why the hole right in the middle? I mean, the DDQ is nice, but a token option would be appreciated.

    The Big Enchilada gives you a guaranteed daily 3* with no competition. Compared to the other cover sources, I think you're giving DDQ too little credit for what it provides. Would you rather have random tokens, or a guaranteed cover? I'll take the cover.
    Don't overvalue the guaranteed cover from DDQ. I love them (for the most part) now that I have all 40 3*s rostered, but that cover source was a solid source of frustration for awhile: Tons of newer/more casual players don't have the required character to even be able to play the opener node. You can't play for the cover if you don't have at least one copy of the character on your roster to begin with, and OP is self-reporting as a newer player. On top of that, a really new player is likely to have increased difficulty with the random aspect of the BE and could easily struggle to even obtain the cover once they unlock the BE node.

    Unfortunately, there is no really solid source for 3* covers outside of the DDQ. If you can regularly obtain event and heroic (basically 2*) tokens, they end up being a good long-term source of 3* characters DDQ aside. Short term, you'll still feel the rarity squeeze on 3*s.
  • BlackSheep101BlackSheep101 Posts: 2,023 Chairperson of the Boards
    Erm, no. PVE was and still is an excellent source of 3* covers. Top 200 for a guaranteed cover is not difficult.
  • Dex 007Dex 007 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 13
    Smudge wrote:
    Keegan wrote:

    Dex 007 wrote:
    tinykitty it, you guys are right! I redeemed without checking the specifics behind the blue question mark. I assumed that 3* covers were to LT what 2*'s are to HTs, i.e. that almost everyone would be a 3* with a small chance of a 4* and a quantum level chance of a 5*. Since I've built up a decent amount of 3* with low cover counts I thought it was a good time to redeem the LTs. No wonder I got such a "lucky" draw.

    So where are the 3* tokens? We have Heroics if you want 2* and Legendary's if you want 4*, but there is not a token that gives an acceptable return of 3*. Why the hole right in the middle? I mean, the DDQ is nice, but a token option would be appreciated.



    The Big Enchilada gives you a guaranteed daily 3* with no competition. Compared to the other cover sources, I think you're giving DDQ too little credit for what it provides. Would you rather have random tokens, or a guaranteed cover? I'll take the cover.


    Don't overvalue the guaranteed cover from DDQ. I love them (for the most part) now that I have all 40 3*s rostered, but that cover source was a solid source of frustration for awhile: Tons of newer/more casual players don't have the required character to even be able to play the opener node. You can't play for the cover if you don't have at least one copy of the character on your roster to begin with

    I'm wouldn't want them to replace any current features, but maybe adding a reward that returns 3* at the rate the 2* or the 4* in their respective tokens occur. The "if you don't have it, you can't get it" part of this game seems to have been developed with the perspective of players that have been along for the whole ride; not only can't you do the BE if you don't have that day's cover, you miss out on the corresponding token in the required node. Luckily for the days I do have it I've found a OBW/Cap/Jugg combo that has yet to fail me. Not always the fastest win but reliable (and swapping out Juggs for Moonstone when there's a first round Thug is extremely fun!)

    I'm also looking at it from a slightly different perspective: one of the reasons I started playing this game was to try a gamification experiment where accomplishing tasks etc. in real life allows me to spend money on this game. The problem I'm beginning to run into is I need to increase the time spent on the RL aspects and spend a corresponding increased amount of money on the game. But besides roster slots there is nothing you can spend money on that gives a worthwhile return. I'm already at a state where 2* covers are worthless to me, and spending $20 for an average of three 3+* covers (assuming I did the 10x for 2800 instead of buying a 1x everyday, or one of the vaults) is not a good value. I don't care if I have plenty of money to throw at the game, I'm not going to do it if I'm not getting a decent return, and there is no way I consider $6 for a 3* cover worthwhile.
  • brollbroll Posts: 4,725 Chairperson of the Boards
    The only problem I see is with your perception. Legendary tokens are end game content meant for end game players. If you want to open your LTs and try to skip over the 3* and 4* mid game then things are going to be a little wonky for you for a while, so either deal with it, or wait until you have progressed to the point where you can start enjoying end game play.


    Nothing in game tells you that... anywhere... As a new player who fell in this same trap nothing in game gives you any idea that LT should be avoided at low levels. Conventional wisdom tells most people that higher levels = better so if they want to claim that then it should be spelled out somewhere.
  • BlackSheep101BlackSheep101 Posts: 2,023 Chairperson of the Boards
    broll wrote:
    The only problem I see is with your perception. Legendary tokens are end game content meant for end game players. If you want to open your LTs and try to skip over the 3* and 4* mid game then things are going to be a little wonky for you for a while, so either deal with it, or wait until you have progressed to the point where you can start enjoying end game play.


    Nothing in game tells you that... anywhere... As a new player who fell in this same trap nothing in game gives you any idea that LT should be avoided at low levels. Conventional wisdom tells most people that higher levels = better so if they want to claim that then it should be spelled out somewhere.
    This isn't a conventional game, though. It's a f2p model game, a genre which makes money by tricking you into inefficiency and making you feel bad.
  • Roland113Roland113 Posts: 292 Mover and Shaker
    I will say this. I did luck out and got a Green Phoenix early on. I won a lot of Big Enchiladas thanks to that draw.
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