Negative 'Downvoting' Removed

Unknown

Downvoting was a way for some people to express themselves and be heard. Now more people will resort to forum posts to be heard, something many were already doing. It's great when the posts are constructive and civil, but many are contentious or play at victimization.

Downvoting is a way to express disagreement at the way someone was expressing themselves as well as at the content. It doesn't make sense to post 'You're being rude," in a separate post calling the person out visibly. Downvoting could make a statement without providing as big a target for the 'victim' to fire back at.

Sometimes there is no way to express disagreement in a constructive manner. If someone's emotionally dug in to their position, it doesn't require them to rebut every point against their argument.

Wonko33

mango_sentinel wrote:

This is why Facebook didn't add a "dislike button"...it would start wars

Yes but writing about about a rebuttal won't/

Malcrof

At least now we can start an Android VS I-Phone thread.. that should be fun!

In all seriousness.. Trying to make the forums a more positive place, i think is a good move. Downvoting had no real use, sure it changes someones reputation.. but who really pays attention to that?

It is like people who complain about TV shows.. if you don't like it.. don't watch!

Maybe it is just my personality, but i really didn't expect this little change, that has nothing to do with the game itself at all... to be as bad as a nerf-hate thread....

Unknown

I think another effective way to implement this would be to just keep likes and dislikes, but don't hide posts, and display the likes / dislikes side-by-side, instead of as a combined total. OTOH, it's possible that this change will help discourage negativity and trolling if people don't have tools that allow them to do it easily.

It's hard to know what kind of reputation system will work the best for keeping any given online community constructive and civil, which is the ultimate purpose of having a reputation system to begin with.

Unknown

Wonko33 wrote:

you are wrong, your point was brought up in a past post

http://d3go.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=27475

and Moderators explained that downvoting was just for disagreeing, why would we have the report button for spam and trolls if not? There is nothing about the downvoting in forum rules page that supports your opinion either.

Wish I could have just downvoted you instead of replying, now we might have a great debate about it, I'm sure it will be very constructive and the whomever was wrong will end changing his opinion in the end.

Here are all of the moderator comments from that post in their entirety. I may still be wrong, but this post definitely wasn't proof of it.

JC the 3rd

Keep in mind that if players downvote announcements every time D3 makes them, then they will just stop making them. People complain that they don't like it when the devs don't communicate, but when they try to do so, they get downvoted non stop, and get called a lot of inappropriate things.

GK

Let's also not forget that this behavior dissuades new users from voicing their opinions in fear of retaliation.

Jaime Madrox

As always, if you have an issue with another user's post or their downvote and/or the comment associated with it, flag the post, include a note for us, and we will deal with it. I have warned and banned users, as recently as yesterday, for retaliatory downvoting and/or inappropriate comments in a downvote.

GK again

I feel like I'm going to need to start handing out warnings for feeding the trolls. Let's stop playing into what we know are pointless, petty arguments, because they makes you no better than them.

Locked.

Wonko33

TLCstormz wrote:

"American Idol ruined EVERYTHING!" lol

But seriously, it made "the people" believe that they had the right to judge everything, everyone, and every opinion ever uttered / typed. And that is simply NOT how society works.

If you wanna disagree with something, put the effort into a rebuttal. Don't just take the lazy or cowardly way out and click a simple button, because honestly.......no one cares if you simply didn't like what they had to say. That's just an immature power trip that MANY people on the internet feel validation from. You didn't like that was said? Such is life. Ignore it. Keep on scrolling. Get over it. You do not have the right to judge it (unless it was blatantly disrespectful).

Down votes shouldn't be instituted, in the first place. Imagine if EVERY SINGLE TIME your parent or teacher or classmate or co-worker said something you didn't like.....and EVERY SINGLE TIME you spoke up and said "I disagree" or "I don't like that"? Not only would that result in numerous slaps to your faces, but also a lot of disciplinary actions and getting beat up being the merry go round.

-So people who don't see it your way
-People who just want a simple way to get the pulse of the community about a comment
are cowards and immature.... maybe that's why people don't want to waste time writing posts expressing what they think about your comments.

As for society we do work like that all the time, companies and governments pay millions of dollars just to know how many people agree or disagree with whatever. Anonymously is just a way of getting info, companies poll their employes anonymously because what you suggest we do (voice our opposition openly in a great post) is exactly what often generates conflicts and prevents people from being honest.

There is a value for both replying with a post (if you want to start a debate/discussion) or just say I disagree if for whatever reason you feel getting into it would be pointless, we use to have both way, now we don't.

As for people not having the right to judge everything , what makes you think you have the right to debate everyone who disagrees with you?

Wonko33

papa07 wrote:

Wonko33 wrote:

you are wrong, your point was brought up in a past post

http://d3go.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=27475

and Moderators explained that downvoting was just for disagreeing, why would we have the report button for spam and trolls if not? There is nothing about the downvoting in forum rules page that supports your opinion either.

you missed the most important part, there is nothing about it in the forum rules.

JVReal

ArkPrime wrote:

TLCstormz wrote:

OMG......I'm reading through pages 2 and 3 and people are so upset that the down vote is gone because "now if I disagree with something, what am I supposed to do?"

YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO MOVE ON! lol. What on Earth? Is this a forum SPECIFICALLY for people judging others? Or thereby having to justify their own opinions, when it gets called out? A political message board? A Great Debaters website?

Why in the world are people so preoccupied with what OTHERS have to say, in the first place????? Life is way too short for that, ya'll. Find something else to occupy your time. Wow.

See, now I have to point out this post is idiotic in writing. Look at the 13 year old grammar. Look at the **** punctuation. Look at how it's about not posting vapid stupidities while doing that exact same thing.

You really don't. And criticizing a person for their punctuation and grammar and belittling them by referring to them as little children is the very kind of posting that would warrant a downvote for the negativity, not simply for disagreement. You took a blanket comment, and made it into a personal attack. That is now what the report button is for. Show some restraint.

orionpeace wrote:

JVReal wrote:

Or a person can comment and express their opinion instead of relying on a button or series of buttons to express it for them.

So you support the notion that you either have both agree and disagree buttons or neither.

I support the notion that if I had to express my opinion beyond an agree or disagree button I would do so. Nothing negative has come from an upvote button.

Unknown

Wonko33 wrote:

papa07 wrote:

Wonko33 wrote:

you are wrong, your point was brought up in a past post

http://d3go.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=27475

and Moderators explained that downvoting was just for disagreeing, why would we have the report button for spam and trolls if not? There is nothing about the downvoting in forum rules page that supports your opinion either.

you missed the most important part, there is nothing about it in the forum rules.

There is nothing in the forum rules that supports your opinion either, as the forum rules do not mention upvoting or downvoting at all, so that is an irrelevant argument.

Wonko33

JVReal wrote:

You really don't. And criticizing a person for their punctuation and grammar and belittling them by referring to them as little children is the very kind of posting that would warrant a downvote for the negativity, not simply for disagreement. You took a blanket comment, and made it into a personal attack. That is now what the report button is for. Show some restraint.

but calling people immature and cowards is fine, got it

Stax the Foyer

More noise, less signal.

Downvotes and the associated comments were a way to express disagreement with a post without cluttering up the thread. Now posts that people disagree with are just going to get a bunch of replies explaining the disagreement.

I do hope it works out as intended, but I think that people who feel aggrieved by downvotes will take the disagreeing replies just as badly as the downvotes, if not worse.

Wonko33

papa07 wrote:

Wonko33 wrote:

papa07 wrote:

Wonko33 wrote:

you are wrong, your point was brought up in a past post

http://d3go.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=27475

and Moderators explained that downvoting was just for disagreeing, why would we have the report button for spam and trolls if not? There is nothing about the downvoting in forum rules page that supports your opinion either.

you missed the most important part, there is nothing about it in the forum rules.

There is nothing in the forum rules that supports your opinion either, as the forum rules do not mention upvoting or downvoting at all, so that is an irrelevant argument.

1- how do you explain the redundant report and downvote button?

2- would this not have been much simpler if I had just downvoted you? Neither of us will change our mind, but I could have seen how many agree with me or disagree and maybe thought "oh most people don't see it that way , maybe it's just me"

JVReal

Wonko33 wrote:

JVReal wrote:

You really don't. And criticizing a person for their punctuation and grammar and belittling them by referring to them as little children is the very kind of posting that would warrant a downvote for the negativity, not simply for disagreement. You took a blanket comment, and made it into a personal attack. That is now what the report button is for. Show some restraint.

but calling people immature and cowards is fine, got it

Wow, really? And the fact that you quoted me and still came up with that baffles me.

Unknown

Wonko33 wrote:

1- how do you explain the redundant report and downvote button?

2- would this not have been much simpler if I had just downvoted you? Neither of us will change our mind, but I could have seen how many agree with me or disagree and maybe thought "oh most people don't see it that way , maybe it's just me"

1. I always treated the report button for all the spam that we used to get - didn't want to waste anybody's time on the little stuff.

2. Maybe that's the difference between us. I am willing to change my mind when facts presented warrant, there just weren't any facts in this instance. Plus, I never believed that voicing a thought out opinion was worthy of a downvote. I usually learn more from people I disagree with than those I agree with.

Cymmina

Was there an actual problem with downvotes? Because all I ever saw was one particular individual (I've deliberately avoided naming names here: this is your opportunity to not incriminate yourself, don't blow it) causing a huge fuss about being stalked/bullied.

I'm a fan of the StackExchange network where downvotes are a useful and necessary tool to identify low-quality content (terrible/misinformed/off-topic answers and lazy/incoherent/off-topic questions get downvoted; correct/useful answers and thoughtful/well researched questions get upvoted).

blinktag

I think it's clear from this thread that different people interpreted the down-vote button differently, which of itself is reason to have this discussion. There are generally two views:

A. Down votes are for trolling, insulting, unhelpful, spam, or inane comments without content.
B. Down votes are for all of the above, plus disagreement.

I'm in the A crowd. Because disagreeing shouldn't impact reputation. (Besides, Grimm and Maddox disagree all the time.) It seems to me the mods were in the A camp too, and didn't like it was being used for B.

Some of the best and most professional forums I participate in take implement a dual strategy:
1) Make it explicit what down votes are for. (In that particular case, #1, as disagreement and good debate is encouraged.)
2) Only allow the top x% (say, 60%) of tenure/reputation people down vote. This helps reinforce the community expectations of what a down vote is, and helps mods out by hiding "bad" posts quickly.

Removing down votes entirely is one solution, and better than what we had, but not, I think, the best solution.

Unknown

Wonko33 wrote:

mango_sentinel wrote:

This is why Facebook didn't add a "dislike button"...it would start wars

Yes but writing about about a rebuttal won't/

Facebook needs a dislike button, people be wild.

Cymmina wrote:

Was there an actual problem with downvotes? Because all I ever saw was one particular individual (I've deliberately avoided naming names here: this is your opportunity to not incriminate yourself, don't blow it) causing a huge fuss about being stalked/bullied.

I'm a fan of the StackExchange network where downvotes are a useful and necessary tool to identify low-quality content (terrible/misinformed/off-topic answers and lazy/incoherent/off-topic questions get downvoted; correct/useful answers and thoughtful/well researched questions get upvoted).

Someone was bullied for making a character vote thread to the point where they decided never to do again, try taking the issue seriously plz

orionpeace

raisinbman wrote:

Someone was bullied for making a character vote thread to the point where they decided never to do again, try taking the issue seriously plz

I think a few of your posts and pattern of behavior in the past clearly indicate that it is entirely possible to bully someone without the use of a down-vote.

The removal of the down-vote will achieve nothing. And those that just clicked it and moved on will be more motivated to post something that just bogs down the thread.

Expect to see a great many of the following in the days ahead:

"Disagree"
"Wrong"
"Waste of space"
"Let it be known, in this thread and upon this forum, that my opinion doth differ from the individual that hath spoken first in this arena. Find his words quoted here as a memorial to his or her wrongness"

Unknown

orionpeace wrote:

raisinbman wrote:

Someone was bullied for making a character vote thread to the point where they decided never to do again, try taking the issue seriously plz

I think a few of your posts and pattern of behavior in the past clearly indicate that it is entirely possible to bully someone without the use of a down-vote.

The removal of the down-vote will achieve nothing. And those that just clicked it and moved on will be more motivated to post something that just bogs down the thread.

Expect to see a great many of the following in the days ahead:

"Disagree"
"Wrong"
"Waste of space"
"Let it be known, in this thread and upon this forum, that my opinion doth differ from the individual that hath spoken first in this arena. Find his words quoted here as a memorial to his or her wrongness"

A) It wasn't me who was bullied, why are you assuming that? You say you follow my posts so you should OBVIOUSLY know who decided never to do a Character Vote again.

And since you follow my posts, you'd have seen my more recent character rankings, meaning, again, this person is NOT me.

Not all of us are self-centered, y'know.

Wonko33

papa07 wrote:

2. I usually learn more from people I disagree with than those I agree with.

and downvoting them prevented that in what way?