Let's talk about Countdown Tiles

mjh

Not all CD tiles are created equal.

As great as it is when enemy OBW pulls off Anti-Gravity Device and increases Jib, Jab, Cross or Shapeshift CD tile, it is NOT working as intended and should be fixed.

Abilities like that need to be addressed and CD tiles that deal damage upon 0 should not be treated the same as those that benefit from remaining on the board.

Another example of why this needs to be fixed is the text / copy on an enemy team Redwing tile reads "destroy this tile...". No! I should not destroy that tile so he can take over another special tile on his next turn.

Hood's Intimidation also hurts my team if I have Jib, Jab, Cross or Shapeshift friendly CD reduce by 1.

discuss

CrookedKnight

The fact that powers sometimes interact in ways you don't like is not a bug. It's a logical consequence of the abilities operating as written.

HailMary

HawkeyeSucks wrote:

As great as it is when enemy OBW pulls off Anti-Gravity Device and increases Colossus or Mystiques CD tiles, it is a bug and should be fixed.

This does strike me as weird, and seems to simply be a consequence of existing mechanics instead of an intended interaction.

But, if I'm reading you correctly, you pretty much just don't like the intentional design of the Redwing mechanic?

Ducky

Strategize better and play to the situation? This is a puzzle game after all.

ICE has said that obw increasing nondamaging cooldowns and Hood shortening them is working as intended. Either use different combinations of characters or adapt is all the advice I can really give.

mjh

the point is that these CD affecting abilities can have damaging affects to your own team depending on the CD type.

Why would I want to increase Mystique or Colossus enemy CD?

Why does the Redwing tile copy say "Destroy this tile.."?

These are not right.

Just saying "working as intended" or whatever rhetoric is just a way of saying "we're not going to fix it right now because it's low priority" IMO

HailMary

HawkeyeSucks wrote:

Why does the Redwing tile copy say "Destroy this tile.."?

These are not right.

I've never noticed the Redwing tile copy, but why is that wrong? The Redwing tile does need to be destroyed in order to allow Redwing to proc again.

GrumpySmurf1002

HawkeyeSucks wrote:

Why would I want to increase Mystique or Colossus enemy CD?

You wouldn't. Which is why you either a) don't use OBW against them b) deny the colors for their tiles so they don't launch them. They're counter-characters to one of OBWs strength.

This is like saying strike tiles are a bug because Loki can turn them against you.

mjh

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

This is like saying strike tiles are a bug because Loki can turn them against you.

not even close to what i'm saying

mjh

HailMary wrote:

but why is that wrong? The Redwing tile does need to be destroyed in order to allow Redwing to proc again.

Why would you want enemy Falcon/Redwing to rejoin the fight sooner and claim another one of your special tiles?

Anytime Falcon is on my team I try to match the Redwing tile right away so he can claim another enemy special tile next turn.
That reminds me, even the friendly copy is wrong, it says "Protect this tile..." but if you match it you can use him again next turn. Having that tile on the board serves your team no good.

CrookedKnight

By that logic it's a bug that Judgment and X-Force can destroy my own special tiles. Why would I want to blow those up?

mjh

CrookedKnight wrote:

By that logic it's a bug that Judgment and X-Force can destroy my own special tiles. Why would I want to blow those up?

we're not even talking about the same thing anymore. And no, by that logic this does not follow.

turul

These would not be a bug if AI would know not to use ceartain powers when he would only help enemy.

Unknown

I consider these things as nerfs or detriments to using normally exceptional abilities.

Unknown

HailMary wrote:

HawkeyeSucks wrote:

As great as it is when enemy OBW pulls off Anti-Gravity Device and increases Colossus or Mystiques CD tiles, it is a bug and should be fixed.

This does strike me as weird, and seems to simply be a consequence of existing mechanics instead of an intended interaction.

But, if I'm reading you correctly, you pretty much just don't like the intentional design of the Redwing mechanic?

Actually, this is one of the few things that makes great sense in the game. It's kind of the same scenario as X-force yellow. You can stop the heal by matching it away, but you'll take damage. In your scenario, OBW can heal you, but it will also increase the beneficial counters of the other team.

It's simple cost-benefit analaysis.

One last example. The more web tiles you have out, the more effective 5 blue spidey is. However, if you use spidey yellow to heal, you lose web tiles.

You actually have to decide if the costs outweigh the gains. I wish other mechanics of the game were so cogent.

Unknown

I generally agree with the OP. Maybe these aren't technically bugs but the abilities certainly aren't working as they were originally intended to. Maybe it's a good thing, maybe it's a bad thing but it's counter to the spirit of the abilities.

Unknown

The text on the Redwing tile should be "destroying this tile allows Redwing to return the next turn."

As for the other abilities, it seems like you could make a case for the power being used turned back against the enemy. Anti-gravity device? Your effort to delay actions unintentionally allows Colossus to guard longer against your attacks, and allows Mystique to thrive in the confusion. Dormammu's intimidation on your side? The increased pressure causes both Colossus and Mystique to be unable to maintain their posture for as long.

Unknown

It is not a bug.

It's a game mechanic where you actually have to think about the game. One of the few.

Like someone else said, don't use AGD if the enemy Colossus is Immovable. If you might die, then it's time to weigh your options.

What if you have Cap's Red at 1 turn left and Colossus Immovable at 1. You can cast Hood Black to get the shield black, but you will lose a turn of Immovable. What do you do? Does an enemy need to die right now? Can you wait a turn?

These questions are pretty much the ONLY things that this game has that comes close to the strategy of true Puzzle Quest games.

If only there were more things to actually think about in this game, the devs would be rich.

dkffiv

What about when the AI snarky's its own tiles because they are the only valid target?

Unknown

Paintsville wrote:

It is not a bug.

It's a game mechanic where you actually have to think about the game. One of the few.

Like someone else said, don't use AGD if the enemy Colossus is Immovable. If you might die, then it's time to weigh your options.

What if you have Cap's Red at 1 turn left and Colossus Immovable at 1. You can cast Hood Black to get the shield black, but you will lose a turn of Immovable. What do you do? Does an enemy need to die right now? Can you wait a turn?

These questions are pretty much the ONLY things that this game has that comes close to the strategy of true Puzzle Quest games.

If only there were more things to actually think about in this game, the devs would be rich.

Just NO! TinyPuppy NO please!
The OP didnt said all the countdown was bugs. The OP problem was that not all countdown are of the same category so they should be treated differently.
These countdown tiles are just definitely not working as intended. These countdown abilities are just lazy solution for new ability mechanic most of which does not work as intended or logically.
I have been playing match 3 game for a very very long time. From puzzle fighter to bejeweled to hexic and even the original puzzle quest (all of these game required much more strategy, planing and thinking). In all of the game with countdown, the countdown are always a very bad thing that you want to stop at all cost. And when the countdown timer end there is usually some effect that come with it.

Some ability may have positive effect such as snarky remark working on you own tile. So you can use it to increase shapeshift duration and so on. But when bagman was release, there was no ability that would benefit from a countdown increase. I am pretty sure the dev didnt plan 1 year a head a long the line: "we are going to release mystique in a year time and this skill will be a next level stratergy.

If a new player coming from another game was to play this. If his first time playing against a Falcon and the enemy use Red Wing. Being a new player not knowing what redwing does he click on the Count Down and read the description and destroy it purposely. The next turn he lose another special tile. Now are you telling me this is logical? This is working as intended? That this involve some sort of strategy? Hell, Falcon can create more redwing tiles if you lock the redwing. Or 2 falcon endlessly converting each other redwing tile for absolutely no reason. This ability make absolutely no sense.

If you play any other game, you would probably know something call cool-down ( a certain period of times after which a skill/ability can be use again). Hell, it's in puzzle quest so the dev should know about it. Redwing could have easily be a passive ability with a cooldown and it convert the special tiles into a basic tile, problem solve, no confusing countdown description, no **** endless conversion of redwing tiles between the two falcon.

NOT EVERYTHING TIMES/TURN RELATED HAD TO BE A COUNTDOWN ABILITY

Fast ball special is going in the right direction, what do you think if fast ball special create a countdown tile instead of just have a 3 turn timer, tinykitty isn't it.

There so many different way to implement new mechanic, it is just easier and a lot lazier to just make it a countdown tiles.

The dev need to do better to satisfy my ODCness.

Unknown

Justdangit wrote:

Paintsville wrote:

It is not a bug.

It's a game mechanic where you actually have to think about the game. One of the few.

Like someone else said, don't use AGD if the enemy Colossus is Immovable. If you might die, then it's time to weigh your options.

What if you have Cap's Red at 1 turn left and Colossus Immovable at 1. You can cast Hood Black to get the shield black, but you will lose a turn of Immovable. What do you do? Does an enemy need to die right now? Can you wait a turn?

These questions are pretty much the ONLY things that this game has that comes close to the strategy of true Puzzle Quest games.

If only there were more things to actually think about in this game, the devs would be rich.

Just NO! TinyPuppy NO please!
The OP didnt said all the countdown was bugs. The OP problem was that not all countdown are of the same category so they should be treated differently.
These countdown tiles are just definitely not working as intended. These countdown abilities are just lazy solution for new ability mechanic most of which does not work as intended or logically.
I have been playing match 3 game for a very very long time. From puzzle fighter to bejeweled to hexic and even the original puzzle quest (all of these game required much more strategy, planing and thinking). In all of the game with countdown, the countdown are always a very bad thing that you want to stop at all cost. And when the countdown timer end there is usually some effect that come with it.

Some ability may have positive effect such as snarky remark working on you own tile. So you can use it to increase shapeshift duration and so on. But when bagman was release, there was no ability that would benefit from a countdown increase. I am pretty sure the dev didnt plan 1 year a head a long the line: "we are going to release mystique in a year time and this skill will be a next level stratergy.

If a new player coming from another game was to play this. If his first time playing against a Falcon and the enemy use Red Wing. Being a new player not knowing what redwing does he click on the Count Down and read the description and destroy it purposely. The next turn he lose another special tile. Now are you telling me this is logical? This is working as intended? That this involve some sort of strategy? Hell, Falcon can create more redwing tiles if you lock the redwing. Or 2 falcon endlessly converting each other redwing tile for absolutely no reason. This ability make absolutely no sense.

If you play any other game, you would probably know something call cool-down ( a certain period of times after which a skill/ability can be use again). Hell, it's in puzzle quest so the dev should know about it. Redwing could have easily be a passive ability with a cooldown and it convert the special tiles into a basic tile, problem solve, no confusing countdown description, no **** endless conversion of redwing tiles between the two falcon.

Fast ball special is going in the right direction, what do you think if fast ball special create a countdown tile instead of just have a 3 turn timer, tinykitty isn't it.

There so many different way to implement new mechanic, it is just easier and a lot lazier to just make it a countdown tiles.

The dev need to do better to satisfy my ODCness.

The description of Redwing needs to be fixed. That is true.

Redwing could have been several things.

When you get to 5 AP, it kills an enemy tile and saps 2 of your AP.

When you get to 5 AP, it kills an enemy tile. You now need 6 AP to use it again. (Reverse of Psylocke Red, somewhat)

When you get to 5 AP, it kills an enemy tile. Redwing does not return unless you have 2 of every color AP.

But it is not those things. It is a countdown tile. And as long as it is a countdown tile, it should obey the same rules as every other countdown tile.

So yes! TinyPuppy YES please! Let game mechanics do their thing, and try to use a little more strategy in your play.

Unknown

Haven't read all of the above, but, I may have daydreamt or have poor memory or both but :

- wasn't R64 supposed to unable us identify whose tile a goon is from when several of the same goons are on play ?

It may be effective but I haven't been able to see the change.

Have I missed something ?