Use of sensitive symbols in MPQ - 'Colossus'

Unknown

I too would like to throw in my "vote" to change Colossus' symbol. The hammer and sickle have come to denote oppression and hate. It's certainly not an appropriate symbol for a hero. For those of us who lived through the Soviet era, we can never see this symbol without a twinge of fear followed by a feeling of anger toward those who enslaved us for so many years. For those of you who didn't live through that era, consider yourselves fortunate.

Unknown

locked wrote:

Black Widow and Yelena Belova are Russian too (so technically Colossus isn't the first Russian character).

Doh... I had forgotten about them...

Ok, how about the first overtly male mutant Russian in the game then.

Unknown

I lived through those years. I also lived through US-induced 199x after USSR was dissolved DESPITE majority voting against it. Sorry, but I know better what times were good and bad.

OnesOwnGrief

While we're at it, can we get the changed for She-Hulk too? I feel that the scale represents a corrupt and unjust legal system that shouldn't be in my game.

Dayv

As an American, even one who tries to be very multicultural and openminded in his views of the world, I was surprised to see that so many people react this way to the hammer and sickle. It never occurred to me that the symbol might have similar connotations to the swastika for some Europeans. However, now that I know people feel this way, and not for extremely unusual and idisoyncratic reasons (I'm sure someone out there is offended about Widow's hourglass, but there has to be a line), I D3/Demiurge should make a statement right away and change this in the next possible update.

In general, they should avoid heavily politically charged symbols, I think. Even the stars, stripes, and eagles of American nationalism are going to be offensive to some, though those are going to be difficult to avoid in a game involving Captain America, Nick Fury, and Iron Patriot.

And yeah, like others said, the symbol isn't right for Colossus in the first place. He has been portrayed as an idealistic Communist, but at the time of his introduction those ideals had already been tarnished by the Soviet state. If it had been used for anyone, it should have been one of the members of the Soviet Super Soldiers.

Unknown

rowaasr13 wrote:

Considering USA bombing millions into fine red pasta in just last decade, 90% of the game heroes should be censored, but thankfully most people are simply realistic. Please keep your nazi fantasies to yourself.

Negative rep? Little US murderers got their bloodthirsty butts hurt?

People talking about Soviets somehow "tarnishing it", please tell me how many times you were in Russia at all? If it is 0, kindly vacate this thread and wash your brain from propaganda.

Unknown

So I've been given a chance to use boosted Captain America in recent PVP. I got a bit sick on stomach when my MPQ board became flooded by gems bearing his sign .

The reason is that many countries was for certain (long) period occupied by US and some still are; many other got "humanitarian" airstrikes. Without spending so much time on explaining the history, impacts of US exceptionalism and the effort several nations had to invest to gain freedom again, I need to highlight that this symbol still resonates and brings up very negative feelings and impressions in majority of Southern America, Arabian, Asian and some European countries. In perception of my nation - I dare to compare it to the symbol which made Germany famous during WW2.

I do understand that the fictional character Captain America himself has American history (as in "invader from old world history", not native American, but still), but I found a bit insensitive the overwhelming usage of this symbolic in a WW game, where this character actually represents the 'good guys'.

Just for illustration of the impacted nations see the map below:

Can we remove his symbol and paint him something neutral as well - like rainbow?

Nonce Equitaur 2

Cap has old-fashioned values, and often works against the US government when it gets too authoritarian. In Marvel's Civil War series, he leads the underground anti-registration movement against the US government. In the recent Winter Soldier movie, he goes against the US government.

In 1775, Samuel Johnson said "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." There are plenty of scoundrels in the world, and many use patriotic symbols. Such as Iron Patriot.

Cap is not a scoundrel. If something is bad, he won't support it, no matter what colors are associated with it. He'll likely even fight against it. He follows his own rules, and has his own moral code.

On the other hand, Colossus would not use the symbol he's been given.

EDIT -- In the Marvel Universe, any character associated with a country or cause often fights against it. Wolverine fights against forces in Canada (Weapon X), Captain America fights against US forces (often being controlled by HYDRA), Natalia Romanova fights against Russian forces. Daredevil fights against the legal system. Iron Man fights against the military industrial complex. Deadpool fights against mercenaries.

David [Hi-Fi] Moore

h4n1s wrote:

In perception of my nation - I dare to compare it to the symbol which made Germany famous during WW2.

I do understand that the fictional character Colossus himself has Soviet history, but I found a bit insensitive the overwhelming usage of this symbolic in a WW game, where this character actually represents the 'good guys'.

Thanks for bringing this to our attention regarding the sensitive nature of the in-game symbol for Colossus. We definitely want to be made aware of anything that players may find offensive.

I will be bring this to the attention of the team later this morning for immediate review. I'll provide an update soon.

Unknown

"David wrote:

Moore"]

h4n1s wrote:

In perception of my nation - I dare to compare it to the symbol which made Germany famous during WW2.

I do understand that the fictional character Colossus himself has Soviet history, but I found a bit insensitive the overwhelming usage of this symbolic in a WW game, where this character actually represents the 'good guys'.

Thanks for bringing this to our attention regarding the sensitive nature of the in-game symbol for Colossus. We definitely want to be made aware of anything that players may find offensive.

I will be bring this to the attention of the team later this morning for immediate review. I'll provide an update soon.

Might as well continue this circus. Care to inform people offended by US imperialism as well? Or you only like to answer rabid anti-Russians?

Unknown

Nonce Equitaur 2 wrote:

On the other hand, Colossus would not use the symbol he's been given.

Sorry, but who are you to say that? It might come to surprise to you but in modern Russia hammer and sickle is still very respected symbol to be proud of (except if you're StateDept sponsored liberast).

Unknown

Nonce Equitaur 2 wrote:

Cap has old-fashioned values, and often works against the US government when it gets too authoritarian. In Marvel's Civil War series, he leads the underground anti-registration movement against the US government. In the recent Winter Soldier movie, he goes against the US government.
EDIT -- In the Marvel Universe, any character associated with a country or cause often fights against it. Wolverine fights against forces in Canada (Weapon X), Captain America fights against US forces (often being controlled by HYDRA), Natalia Romanova fights against Russian forces. Daredevil fights against the legal system. Iron Man fights against the military industrial complex. Deadpool fights against mercenaries.

Ok, cool. He still wears stars and stripes and I don't see any "unnamed country" players (I hope it is not our super-democratic Latvia "friends" with their free and liberal laws about "non-citizen" untermensch) shouting about removing it and CMs rushing to "immediately review" such idiocy. Why can't Colossus be a good guy with his own country's official symbols? OP post reeks of red scare and anti-communism propaganda.

Nonce Equitaur 2

rowaasr13 wrote:

Nonce Equitaur 2 wrote:

On the other hand, Colossus would not use the symbol he's been given.

Sorry, but who are you to say that?

I don't. Google says it. Colossus doesn't use that symbol.

GuntherBlobel

In addition to it being offensive to some, I don't think it represents his character well.

When Colossus was introduced, the new X-men were notable for being multicultural, like the original cast of Star Trek. Where they came from was important them (e.g. Storm), but it didn't define them.

Storm and Black Panther aren't represented by a symbol of Africa. Only Captain America is so clearly defined by his country to merit such a symbol. If Cap's symbol offends someone, it's likely that Captain America offends them. Colossus is not Captain U.S.S.R.

I shutter to think about how Warpath might be represented in MPQ.

Unknown

Nonce Equitaur 2 wrote:

rowaasr13 wrote:

Nonce Equitaur 2 wrote:

On the other hand, Colossus would not use the symbol he's been given.

Sorry, but who are you to say that?

I don't. Google says it. Colossus doesn't use that symbol.

Did you bother to look at that page? Here it is, in the third row, directly from Marvel wikia, BTW:



Also, can somebody tell me who's artist from that signature?

Unknown

To add to the above post, when he was "introduced" he was found as a farmer in Russia. Was recruited by Xavier and was reluctant to even join the X-men let alone join them in America because of his nationalistic pride as well as caring for his sister. Eventually he was brainwashed into believing he was Proletarian. The workers' hero of communist Russia since he used his powers to aid farmers etc. Once he learned of the wrongdoings he fought AGAINST things but this does not change his DEEP past with Russia. Marvel and all comic books often tackle hot button issues during the times they are written. As another poster stated, the hammer and sickle are still widely used in Russia today. Some people need to take a step back and view things from a wider perspective instead of immediately jumping to "OMG this offends me so it needs changed."

David [Hi-Fi] Moore

UPDATE:

The Colossus icon sensitivity issue has been brought to the attention of all concerned and is now under discussion internally. I'll keep everyone posted when we have something definitive on the topic.

REMINDER:

Conversation and opinion is welcomed. Please keep your comments respectful of others and refrain from insults.

Thank you.

Unknown

Magic wrote:

It's a spot on comment. I come from Poland and this symbol in a game is just simply wrong. It's the same as Nazi Swastika - not difference there. And I bet the swastika would not be used for Red Scull in game.

Today is the anniversary of the Soviet agression on Poland in 1939 and seeing this in game hurts even more.

I'd be completely fine with using a swastika for a nazi villain in the game. And I'm jewish.

Symbols don't make me mad, specially if they're from fallen foes. They only have the power you give them.

Unknown

"David wrote:

Moore"]Conversation and opinion is welcomed. Please keep your comments respectful of others and refrain from insults.

Well, I see insult to Russia right in the OP's rant.

turul

This is not only a sensitivity issue, but legal issue too.
Usage of the hammer and sickle "logo" might be banned in several ( European )countries, alongside from Swastika.

i am from Hungary, where it was also prohibited earlier