Following up on Hatchery Spider - I challenge you to show HS potential.

Tremayne

In this thread I questioned the usefulness of Hatchery Spider - https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/75990/grn-hatchery-spider-who-generates-insect-tokens

I would sum up the thread in the following manner:

1. the card will be good in the future, because Wizard otC  plans ahead in situations like this.
2. HS potential has not been found yet, just you wait and see. Rashmi was given as an example of overlooked potential.

Point 1 remains to be seen, but on point 2 I would like to challenge you to post a deck that shows how potent HS is. Anyone up for the challenge?

Since there are two formats, please include “Standard” or “Legacy” at the top of your post. Then add the card list and please add PW name if relevant.

I hope that someone can do better than what I found.

Tremayne

PW: Vivien Reid
Format: Standard

creatures:
HS
Glowspore shaman - add cards to GW if draw, but mainly used in GW
nullhide Ferox - for fun, but can be replace with a non-mythic creature
Swarm guildmage - needed to fill GW with cards
Golgari raiders - used for undergrowth potential.
Ochran assassin - removal in creature form

Spells:
undercity uprising - use creatures as removal
Gather the pack - charge undergrowth potential in GW and fetch creatures

supports:
growing Rites of Itlimoc - same as GtP spell above and gem conversion
Unclaimed Territory - gem conversions due to sufficient elf creatures, but can be replaced with a suitable gem converter.

the idea is to fill GW with creatures so undergrowth is useful on casting HS and GR.

then kill opponent with buffed creatures.

Tremayne

PW: Kiora
Format: Legacy

Creatures
HS
The Locust God - only creature to generate insect-tokens in my possession
Swarm guildmage - add cards to GW and healing.
Golgari Raiders - mainly GW filler

Spells
Rishkars Expertise - need more mana for TLG and RR
Glimpse the unthinkable - pump GW with cards.
Gather the pack - charge undergrowth and fetch creatures
Rivers Rebuke - removal

suports
Storm the Vault - need more mana for TLG and RR
Growing Rites of Itlimoc - same as GtP spell above and fetch creatures.

the plan is to boost HS to a huge beast and kill the opponent, but this does require a lot more mana and hand management then my first deck.

if HS joins the fray to soon it is not though enough to remain on the battlefield.

TheDude1

PW: Kiora
Format: Legacy

Creatures:
Spider

Supports:
Omniscience
Panharmonicon

Spells:
Blue Sun Zenith
Beacon Bolt
Vivien's Invocation
Chord of Calling
Hour of Promise
Thunderherd Migration
Circuitous Route


In essence you're ignoring the Undergrowth effect in favor of the Spider's fetch.  Note that this still works even though the Spider is broken right now (instead of "first two different Creatures or Supports" it just has you choose between the first two).

Panharmonicon and BSZ will keep things moving along.  Kiora's second will always pull back the Spider to get an Omni or a Panharmonicon, whichever you need at the time.

Always play Panharmonicon first.  If you play Panharmonicon followed immediately by an Omni, you'll get two Omnis on the board, which should be enough to sustain you on a bit of a loop.  

You can potentially streamline this if your Kiora is over level 50 so she carries 8 spells, which means you don't necessarily need Panharmonicon, and the spider will always draw itself or Omniscience.  (Mine isn't that high.)  The upside of using Panharmonicon is that it will automatically go fetch something else similar, so you don't have to use a separate spell to do it.  You can also use some combination of other spells like Whir of Invention, Seasons Past, etc., but I didn't have those.

Also note: DO NOT use Panharmonicon, Omni and Antiquities War together.  Those three go infinite as they mutually fetch each other.

Avahad

PW V2

Format standard

creatures
spider
izoni
blood operative

supports
Rupture spire
growing rites

spells
Gather the pack
glimpse the unthinkable
connive/concoct
price of fame
thunderherd

Tremayne

@TheDude1 - ok, so HS is a different kind of Rashmi to fetch cards with. Sadly I do not have omni to test your deck but I will ponder the fetch idea some more.

Quick question: You have no support removal, does that not leave you weak against decks with disable supports?

Tremayne

@Avahad - I think that HS and Izoni is the combo the developers had in mind, sadly I haven’t gotten Izoni yet. Does they play as well together as it appears?

you have to wait for a few key component before firing of a number of cards right?
I imagine that you need 2 of the following 3 cards: HS, Izoni and growing rites, before playing GtP and glimpse 

TheDude1

Tremayne said:

@TheDude1 - ok, so HS is a different kind of Rashmi to fetch cards with. Sadly I do not have omni to test your deck but I will ponder the fetch idea some more.

Quick question: You have no support removal, does that not leave you weak against decks with disable supports?

You could throw in support removal as one of your spell slots - this is a general framework rather than a hard-and-fast deck build.  You just end up potentially filling your hand with unusable spells, which limits the loop effectiveness.  The general concept is to ignore Undergrowth (too slow) and Leader (no tokens) and focus on the part that does work, which you can control more directly.

Tunist

This is the standard deck I have with hs.  If you get izoni as the first creature in your grave and lazav in play your golden.  Each surveil will put a copy of izoni with half his mana into your hand.  Each izoni will soon reinforce the hs 6 times when you cast it.  Most opponents die in a couple turns.

This is a link to the deck in action

https://youtu.be/GAQ_9CVXvN8

Avahad

@Tremayne

the pairing does work very well and as things are at the mo they are made for each other.... future releases may make it even better.....

you don’t really have to wait to use gtp or glimpse as (connive)concoct will pull one or the other of the spider or izoni back after the blood operatives have resolved. It’s just about filling the graveyard and reaping the benefits especially as her ab2 relies on it as well.

the biggest decision to make playing her is wether to drop her ab3 first or not:.... 

Avahad

I can’t answer that question- normally the creatures get so far buried in the deck all I’m fetching is rspire or growing rites 
cant say that I’ve ever seen it fetch itself on an early game casting either tho.....
i just know it’s a fun deck to play and very strong (I use it on both types of TG)  BUT I don’t trust it enough for coalition events just yet......

Tremayne

@starfall - I think that senario was discussed when the set launched, maybe even in the thread I linked to above, not sure.

however I seem to recall that someone argued that it would take so long time to set up that when it was possible to pull off, you should have won anyways. Maybe that is not true, but I can’t remember fetching HS with HS ability. To be fair though I haven’t tried to create a deck to test it.

Tremayne

@Avahad - no I hadn’t thought about the Connive trick. I just imagined that you needed to get Izoni down first to get insects on the board and that required creatures in the GW. Which could lead to starvation of creatures in drawing HS, even with GTP or Growing rites. Sadly I don’t have Izoni so can’t test your deck. 😩

Tremayne

It is worth a shot, but as long as HS is bugged it is difficult to test.

Theros

Undergrowth  are very hard to work with. Since there is hard cap number x, I see no problem with the mechanic being number of cards in your  graveyard. Creatures in graveyard is uncesseray hard. The game is mostly over by the time you get 3 to 4 creatures in graveyard, let alone 6 or 14.

BATMAN1

Lich, Rites, gather, izoni, spider, rebirth this is probably the apex. This is the best I’ve found. Yea rebirth is counter intuitive but since it raises creature from the graveyard on at a time, you still can get insects from izoni and use spiders ability. 

OmegaLolrus

So I've been working with:

Hatchery Spider

Izoni, Thousand Eyes

Savra, Queen of the Golgari

Sisters of Stone Death

Swarm Guildmage

Ochran Assassin

Reclaim

Status // Statue

Undercity Uprising (This particular slot I've been having trouble filling. This is just the most recent iteration.)

Golgari Guildgate

I run it under Vraska2, just because I love the theme. My goal is to try to get the Assassin and the Guildmage out early to load up my graveyard for Undergrowth. Savra and Sisters to keep the enemy creatures out of the way. Reclaim to turn bodies into mana if A: I don't need that creature anymore or B: that creature's about to die anyway. Izoni and the Spider are the end game. I usually have a Spider and a couple of Izonis ready to cast by about... 9-10 turns in and just drop a big old 18/30.

No idea how competitive it is, but I really love playing it. Usually use Vraska2's Golgari Assassins too just... to add a ticking clock. I've won without really realizing it more than a few times just because I was too focused on keeping all of the metaphorical plates spinning... and the opponent was actually around 5 health.

Laeuftbeidir

I currently use the spider in a huatli deck. I don't see the point of using it in legacy or any kind of usual loop deck. It works nicely with oath of terefi! The card is good, but not broken. Getting creatures in your graveyard is incredibly easy, though.

Tremayne

Hadn’t thought about mixing HS with OoT, that could work quite nice, but removes the potential of using Glimpse the unthinkable, but that can be fixed with other cards as you mentioned.
Do you then buff your first creature to keep it on the battlefield? White has numerous options for that.